By A Web Design

Collapse Is Humanity Adapting To Its Own Presence





Ilargi: What follows is an elaborate contemplation by Alexander Aston, from whom we earlier published From Crisis to Crisis: Zimbabwe to Greece to Montana, on past, present and future of mankind and civilization, on collapse and rebirth. Alexander writes: "Civilization is the adaptation of humanity to its own presence". I took the liberty to strenghten that a little, and "slightly" change it into "Collapse Is Humanity Adapting To Its Own Presence". If we can agree that all civilizations MUST collapse, what after all is the difference?




Alexander Aston:

I think about history ... a lot. It has always been my deepest fascination. When I was little I would construct whole civilizations with my Legos and play out their existence. Monuments would be constructed, kings would die, wars would start, cities would be rebuilt, lineages would rise and fall. I suppose as a child what captivated me was the magnitude of the human epic, the drama of the shifting patterns of human relationship over the course of generations. I simply loved telling their stories, and the sort of melancholic beauty that one feels reflecting on all that has passed, all that has succumbed to time and is irretrievable.

The western historical canon is well known to us in its essential form. The basic narrative runs, "Humans gave up their wandering and settled the fertile crescent, cities emerged, myths and legends were established. Then came the Greeks and all that is noble and virtuous in western culture was born: reason, art, democracy, etc. Next the Romans who brought, law, order and engineering until crushed by the barbarians and the rise of Christianity. The dark ages ensued until Europeans pulled themselves up by the bootstraps and proceeded to make their rightful claim on the world as the descendents of Greece and Rome."

The characters of our narratives have become so familiar to us that we tend to simply view our ancestors as us, separated only by time. I have watched the siege of Troy, the burning of the library of Alexandria and Gladiatorial games all carried out with clipped British accents as though everyone living in the past 10,000 years spoke the queen’s English. What happens in the reshaping of history through our narrative lens is, if you will, a cultural-morphic personification.

We attribute to our ancient cultures our own cosmologies and create a linear relationship between our cultures. Now I am not saying that we are not the descendents of the ancients that preceded us and that they have not had a powerful influence upon us. What I am saying is that we distort our ability to truly empathize and understand the humanity of those who preceded us and in doing so we distort our ability to understand our own position in history and relationship to those that will follow us.

The truth is that the ancients were radically different cultures than ours. The stories they told about themselves are not the same as the ones we tell about them. Though we can only reconstruct their worlds now using what facts we know, it is important that we work to empathize with their reality as best we can so that we might understand our own more fully. We must work to imagine the condition of the ancients. I often think of what it would have felt like to go into battle.


Can you imagine standing on the field, heat bearing down on you as you stare out at the mass of humanity on the opposing side, light glinting off of metal? You would have that deep anxiousness in the pit of your stomach. Drums beating as you and the columns start to move, first walking, jogging, then running, everything moving faster and faster.

Leather and metal strapped to your body chafing against your skin, the scent of other humans and dust from thousands of sandals hitting the earth surrounds you. Blood and adrenaline pumping through your body to match the pounding of the war drums. Closer and closer the inevitability of the clash descending upon you, the roar of thousands of voices screaming in unison fill the air and... impact.

What was the psychology of these humans? What ordered their world, what was the visceral intensity of their experience? What makes them "us", what gives them their own unique truths? The people that we call the "Greeks", were an Iron age people in the Mediterranean, already with their own vast history filled with legends and fallen civilizations as distant from their times as we are from them.

Certainly the Hellenes form part of the DNA of our culture, their ideas and actions have been transmitted through the shifting dynamics of human society and played a large role in the shape and expression of our cultures. Yet they were not "Westerners" or "Europeans". They were a people trying to make sense of the process in which they were embedded, trying to create a coherent narrative out of all that they had inherited and did not even remotely imagine of us.

Yet why is this idea of reframing the narrative so important? I would argue that if we do not demythologize our history we will be incapable of demythologizing ourselves, and if our understanding of our lineage is mythic then our relationship to our own times is equally so. That when we respond to our condition with pre-scripted narratives we are attempting to conform reality to our own thoughts, assumptions and biases. This reduces our adaptability because it reduces our ability to see possibilities and to embrace a diversity of perception and response. Think of all the humans burned at stakes, all the texts that have been obliterated simply because they challenged the dominant narratives.


 

Rebirth, Rebirth

I want to try and posit a different narrative, an attempt at demythologizing history and civilization a bit, and to better map the "geography" of our past to the best of my understanding. I will largely use the lens of western history as that is what I am most familiar with (like those most likely to read this) but not to disregard other histories. This is not meant to be a referenced, academic paper (I am working on that separately), rather I will use logic and what is largely common historical knowledge to establish my argument for a different perspective.

I believe the universe can be viewed as an entropic fractal. Energy and matter collect into differentials that work to more efficiently dissipate available energy. When a differential is formed that can contain a portion of available energy from a source and stabilize it in negative feedback loops, it will form a more complex and energy dense structure at a smaller scale than its source.

This works algorithmically. Unstable structures, such as supernovas, die out, creating not only the room for more stable structures to form but also the materials that provide new differentials. Stable structures increase the amount of energy available on a local scale, which increases the probability of energy pooling into a smaller, available differential. Given enough time and space, material complexity and energy density will be increasingly selected for by the repetition of this process.

Simply put: given enough variables in structure, energy will continue to create denser and more complex structures at successively smaller scales.


In turn life is also an entropic mechanism, it harnesses available energy and dissipates it. However, given the magnitude of available energy in relation to the earth, life forms a massive positive feedback loop expanding and processing larger and larger amounts of available energy. Organisms greatly increase energy density and make energy more available on a local scale by doing things like excreting the byproducts of metabolization (such as when anaerobic organisms oxygenated the biosphere) by being energy dense packets for predation, or simply by decomposing.

By its presence life increases available energy, by increasing available energy it increases the probability of the emergence of new organisms to harness that available energy, creating in turn more complexity and density in a positive feedback loop of adaptation and evolution. In other words the presence of life reshapes and changes the conditions in which it arose, forcing it to continually adapt to its own presence. What we can see in evolution is that the organisms most capable of harnessing available energy are the most fit.

If you will permit me a bit of poetic license, one can view all living organisms as singular entities that have been transforming and mutating in the changing currents of energy over billions of years. Evolution is simply the logic of entropic complexity played out algorithmically with increasing complexity due to the feedback mechanisms inherent in the process.

What we see is an embedded process of agency, set by universal parameters of energy organization and behaviour. A process of agency that is played out with increasing speed and complexity through a cosmic positive feedback loop. I would argue that Humanity, imbedded in this process, forms a whole new fractal of agency. Simply put, the human mind represents the sum logic of evolution, for the purpose of harnessing available energy, in a singular organism. Instead of adapting physiologically it adapts behaviourally, furthering the geometric growth in complexity.

Humanity's arrival has also played in a self similar pattern to the emergence of life. As symbolic consciousness first started to emerge from the "ocean" and step onto the shores of Africa it increasingly began to respond to its own presence. Hominids began organizing into complex social structures, forming a sort multicellular consciousness, capable of ever more sophisticated interactions with its environment and thus changing its environment in turn. Our socio-economic structures create an ecology of consciousness in which humans operate.


This raises the issue of Civilization. Given that social organization and H. sapiens are axiomatic, and that the species is biologically predisposed to the extremely successful system of hunting and gathering, the massive mutations in the social structure over the past 10,000 years must have been predicated upon evolutionary pressures in which tribal systems had no competitive advantage.

Given what we know of the adaptability of the tribal system to environments, and its proliferation globally, the only new environmental factor at the onset of agriculture which would have provided the competition necessary for a mutation in social structure is humanity itself. This is not to negate structural factors such as the end of the last ice age, but recognition that the presence of human consciousness was the fundamental factor.

The agricultural revolution began independently in multiple locations almost immediately after the establishment of indigenous societies in nearly every major geographic region of the Earth. Since the tribal system was so successful it experienced steadily growing populations, and these population pressures would have created increased competition over the available resources, ultimately resulting in the migration of populations in order to meet their resource needs and maintain the growth rate. This process of expansion is shown by the species’ global establishment by 12,000 B.C. However, as tribal populations reached near total coverage of the planet, migratory patterns would have become more restricted by the presence of other human populations.


 


Agriculture and ultimately civilization began near simultaneously (on a evolutionary and historical scale) worldwide, on roughly the same latitudes. The epicenters of Civilization in the Fertile Crescent, Mesoamerica and the Yangtze and Indus valleys are, or once were, some of the most fertile areas on Earth, meaning that they would have already supported some of the densest populations of indigenous peoples in the world.


Since the members of a species fill the same ecological niche they are naturally in competition for the same resources, and the larger the population the greater the competition leading to an increasingly rapid depletion of resources. As tribal societies filled the Earth’s hunter-gatherer carrying capacity there would have been a steady intensification in competition for resources as the traditional geographic range of hunter gatherer peoples became increasingly limited.

However, tribal structures would have been in a state of competitive equilibrium, meaning that there were no major advantages in resource gathering among the competing populations. Due to the limits on range imposed by population densities, and the inability to out-compete neighbors for their resources, tribal societies adapted to these new environmental forces by intensifying the usage of their resource bases. It is at this point that the mutations from the hunter gather lifestyle into agricultural society began. In essence, the root cause of Civilization is the adaptation of humanity to its own presence.

H. Sapiens has an unprecedented interface with its environment. Due to their tool making and cognitive capacities, humans create incredibly complex social dynamics in order to interface with their surroundings. They essentially operate as one synchronous social organism in order to compete. When humanity first came into being, the tribal interface was in a homeostatic state allowing human populations to expand worldwide.

When the tribal interface began to overshoot the environment's carrying capacity for that specific socio-economic model, it was not a physiological interface that was in a state of competitive equilibrium but a behavioral one, therefore natural selection favored behavioral adaptations that broke the competitive equilibrium.

When the adaptive qualities of the human species came into direct competition with one another, a positive feedback loop was created where intensification of human interaction with its resource base ultimately led to agriculture. Like a star igniting, populations reorganized into ape hives around more localized energy production and denser thermodynamic flows. This in turn created the first major food surpluses which subsequently led to larger populations, which lead to greater levels of cultivation, surplus, and a rapid expansion of peoples carrying the new social mutation.

This would have increased population pressures but civilized peoples had developed a competitive advantage, in numbers initially and later in technology, over the smaller indigenous populations. Once agriculture had achieved a competitive advantage over the tribal interface it began to expand and fill the environment’s carrying capacity, mutating again when its expansion hit competitive equilibrium over limited resources.


The same fundamental dynamics of population growth apply to Civilization as they applied to the earlier indigenous humans. The success of the adaptation led to steadily growing populations, and as they exceeded the capacities of their resource bases Civilization began to migrate outwards, reaching near total coverage of the globe and human institution by the 19th century. Populations continued to grow but room for expansion became increasingly limited by the presence of other civilized populations, which led to a rapid intensification of resource competition worldwide.

Like its tribal predecessors, Civilization had reached a level of intense competitive equilibrium amongst itself and began adapting to its own presence by intensifying the usage of its resource base. Just as the human population verged on one billion and competition between Agrarian Civilizations reached its zenith, the Industrial Revolution began. Industrialization spread rapidly throughout the densest populations of humanity worldwide, creating another positive feedback loop and rapid growth rate similar to that of agriculture before it.

The past 300-odd years have shown the competitive success of the industrial society over its agricultural counterpart, to the point that it has become the dominant form of social structure for the vast majority of humans.


In light of my conjectures I want to give a slight reframing narrative of western history starting with the rise of Christianity and the Collapse of Rome. This is meant to be an illustrative but truncated narrative focused more on the broad historical pattern, so please excuse me for any glaring omissions.

The Roman Empire was highly dependent on expansion to maintain its structure. The wealth, in both resources and slaves, taken from conquered territories in an expanding periphery was used as the major fuel source for socio-economic activity within the Empire. As the Empire expanded it had to increasingly expended more energy on maintaining coherence within its territory. Overtime the net energy needed to maintain the empire exceeded the net gain from further expansion, meaning that it lost the primary energy source it was organized to harness thus sending it into a long, though not completely linear, period of contraction and decline.

There is an important behavioural component in the culture of Rome at this time. As the patronage systems broke down and services went into decline, as famines, pestilences and other disaster would rip through Roman cities, the Roman elite, the patriarchs and priests tended to have a common response. They’d bugger off. The elites would tend to retreat to their country estates and wait out the worst of it (though this did act to seed the manorial system of the middle ages), leaving the lower classes to sort themselves out.

Christianity went from being a cult of ostensibly 12 families to the dominant religion of the empire in less than 400 years. No small feat in a world where the fastest form of travel was the Trireme. This is often described as one of the "miracles" of Christianity and I am sure there would be those that would be quite displeased to hear me say it would be more appropriately called natural selection.


 


The Christian worldview, its behavioural/cultural genetics or memes, describes a system of mutual aid and care giving, i.e. "love thy neighbour".

When Christians started encountering the inadequacy of the Roman system to support its citizens they would stay in the urban centers and provide basic care and food to the citizens as their beliefs required them to. Basic care increases a human being's survival rate dramatically, so if you had a christian community you were more likely to survive difficult times. As more people were saved by Christian charity they adopted what was a more functional model of social organization in terms of survival.

Of course this all came with cosmological justification that was transmitted with the behaviour. In this way Christianity was able to grow geometrically in the empire and undercut and supplant the social order despite powerful attempts to stop the process. Adaptation and evolution by any other name.

Thus a behavioural adaptation occurred that tended to create a more effective distribution of resource and increase survival rates amongst its adherents. As the economic ecology of the Roman Empire continued to break down, communities formed around country estates where energy production and distribution was localized, forming the roots of Feudalism.

Because they were more efficient, independent and durable in structure they supplanted the deteriorating ancient economic models and assembled the basis of social organization in the middle ages. Not a pretty system by any means, but an effective one. In essence the manor system created ecological pockets of humanity that were able to whether the collapse of the system.


Now we flash forward a bit to the black death. Roughly 50% of Europe's population is estimated to have died. Combined with events such as the Little Ice Age, the Great Famine, the Western Schism and the 100 Years War. the cultural world view of Medieval Europe began to fall apart and the feudal structure was massively destabilized.

The Plague created more available land as well as a far higher demand for available humans due to the reduced supply of population. This ultimately helped to establish the wage and rental systems, stagnating manorial wealth while increasing economic opportunity and mobility for many surviving Europeans.

As the manor system began to fall apart, cities began to expand as populations migrated for new economic opportunities and a new "middle class" began to emerge (despite attempts by the elite yet again to stifle such changes). It is not surprising that the first major expansions of economic and cultural activity developed in the Italian city states.

Firstly they were the point of introduction of the plague in Europe so they had a head start on stabilization and recovery from its effects. Secondly, because they were the major European trading centers with the rest of the Eurasian continent, they would also have provided the most economic opportunity.


As populations moved into the Italian cities they would have done so with their cultural narratives severely shaken, making them not only more susceptible to new ideas but indeed hungry for new narratives and identification in a vastly changed society. Thus the long dormant memes (preserved for Europe by the Arabs) of the Roman and Hellenic world began to take root and spread. Ancient ideas fueled new ones and the culture began to reorganize its self-conception in the process we term the renaissance developing the first real challenge to the medieval worldview in millennia.

Around the same time wealth from the New World began to pour into Europe, largely through the Spanish conquest of the Americas. One could also argue that the age of discovery was fueled by geography. With Portugal and Spain on the periphery of the major Italian economic centers and with dense populations prohibiting expansion to the east they were directed towards oceanic exploration and expansion in the west to fuel their economies.

This infusion of wealth represented a massive energy boon that stimulated economic activity and also out competed the old aristocratic economic models. This wealth was largely distributed into Northern Europe, especially the Netherlands, France and England, which became the manufacturing base of Europe.

Thus nations on the periphery of the old medieval order - the Church of Rome -, became both more economically powerful and independent. It was this combination of economic transformation, infused with humanist values of the Renaissance spreading north, that helped spark the reformation.

Economic independence provided the insulation necessary for a new conception of human relationship to take root and challenge the authority of Rome. Though in terms of area and populations the Catholics came out dominant, it forever shattered the Church's hegemony over Europe. This in turn created a divide in the cultural geography of Europe, providing new niches for ideas to flourish and spread, ultimately giving rise to the Enlightenment, scientific thinking and the impetus for the industrial revolution.


 


This is a pattern of punctuated equilibrium, in which long periods of relative stability are punctuated with periods of rapid adaptation and diversification. An ecological system reaches a high level of equilibrium and complexity in its relationships; then something causes the equilibrium to fracture, whether a meteorite or the plague, thus reducing the complexity of the system.

This acts to clear the more inefficient and fragile structures, opening up energy flows and new niches for more stable species (or ideas) to expand into. What is very fascinating on an thermodynamic level is that every phase of punctuated equilibrium ends with a severe reduction in available energy, whether energy available from the sun or from working populations. This collapses the structures dependent on formerly large energy flows, but it creates a selection mechanism for structures capable of organizing more efficiently and densely in relation to available energy.

A perfect illustration of this is the radiation of Endothermic animals (mammals) and Angiosperms with the extinction of the dinosaurs. Endothermic animals have a much higher energy density than exotherms, and though they have higher energy requirements as well, this was offset by the size of the early mammals. This energy density allows them to maintain a higher state of internal equilibrium in relationship to available energy (localized energy production), thus allowing them to better survive the reduced warmth of the post meteorite environment.

It’s the same with flowers and deciduous trees: their broad thin leafs allowed them to better photosynthesize in the reduced light of the nuclear winter, and as coniferous canopies began to clear it allowed for their radiation. With the collapse phase of punctuated equilibrium the most energy dense and efficient structures are selected for, meaning that all subsequent radiation will inherently be more complex due to its increased density and efficiency, further feeding into the positive feedback loop of entropic complexity by making more energy available on the local level.


This is the mechanism that best expresses the emergence of complexity as I understand it. It emerges by orders of magnitude by organizing energy and matter into complex relationships which break down, then algorithmically selecting the most energy dense and efficient remainder to reorganize into a greater order of complexity.

This invariably makes the process faster and faster as systems with an increased capacity for energy density manifest complexity more rapidly, in turn making them more susceptible to breakdown when something interferes with those complex relationships.

In a super brief overview of history we can illustrate it like this: Roughly 8 Billion years from the big bang to the emergence of life. Roughly 2.5 billion years from the emergence of prokaryotic cells to the emergence of eukaryotic cells, and roughly 1 billion years from the emergence of Eukaryotes to Multicellular organisms. 370 million years to the colonization of land etc.

Again, in human history we can see a similar pattern, 150 thousand years to the "great leap forward", 40 thousand years to the development of agriculture and 10,000 years to industrialization. We see this at an even smaller scale in european history, Roman break down, reemergence, Medieval break down, reemergence. Events break down the ecology of human organization and it reforms into denser more complex structures, complete with new adaptive behaviours.


So here we are in 2012 and what we do know is that our systems demands far exceed the capacity of the planet to support it and it is increasingly becoming a thermodynamic impossibility. Our conception of society is at complete odds with the physical and biological parameters that gave rise to it. The collapse of our world order is coming down to simple maths, and while inconceivable to many, it is also irrefutable to anyone willing to look at the basic truths of physics and ecology.

We are caught in the unfolding of a titanic logic bomb between the demands of our economic system and the limitations of both our planet and humanity itself. The high priests of Economics fiercely deny this and demand ever more blood sacrifice from us in order to end the eclipse of their infinite future. This is endemic behaviour of elites throughout history, who have consistently attempted to conform reality to their metaphysics, the worldviews born of, and insulated by, their privilege, while the burden of reality is increasingly placed on those beneath them.

Historically this plays out until the inertia created by their inability to adapt breaks the old order apart. Roman Senators, the Ancient Regime, Mandarins and Czars all suffered from the most extreme forms of normalcy bias, ones used to the command of reality; invariably such hubris condemns the majority to tragedy.

So what can we infer from our history thus far? The history of a species' population growth tends to follow a pattern known as M.I.G.O.D.S. or migration, innovation, growth, overexploitation, decline and stabilization. So far humanity has repeated the first steps with increasing intensity due to its cognitive capacities and ability to adapt behaviourally. Hunter Gatherers migrated and developed innovations to their new environments which continued the processes of population growth and migration.

However, when overexploitation started to confront human populations (at least in those areas that permitted the development of agriculture), humans developed new innovations in culture and production that allowed for the process of growth to continue. This did not nullify the rest of the M.I.G.O.D.S. pattern but delayed it allowing us to reach a level of global overexploitation. What is truly fascinating about us is that yet again Humanity's greatest ecological pressure is itself.


So what are we looking at when we peer into the future using this understanding of population growth? Ignoring either an stratospheric rise or total collapse into oblivion, what we see in the J-curve is a drop followed by stabilization, a state of equilibrium forming a relatively straight line. When we look at this part of population patterns in terms of human history, what we are looking at is a radically different society than any we have ever experienced before.

It represents a transformation or mutation in human social structure as radically different in its function and self conception as the differences between Hunter Gatherers, Agriculturalists and Industrials. The only other thing that I think can be said with relative surety is that on a historical scale the process of transformation will be bloody well fast.


 


That is why I say that this process will be an order an of magnitude higher than agriculture and Industrialization combined.

Not because we will achieve an unlimited growth in complexity, but because of the speed of reorganization that will be necessary. The speed of decline exerting pressure on societies on the one hand, and our historically unparalleled capacity to transmit information on the other, combine to create the conditions in which behavioural adaptation can manifest very rapidly.

There are two major questions in my view when looking at this. Firstly, at what point in decline do we stabilize, and secondly, what will be the cultural expressions of that stability? The first question is important because the point of stabilization will have a massive impact on the social complexity of future organization.

How much population do we lose, how much information and technology? The extreme of a post industrial stone age puts that into perspective. Obviously the social structures and psychologies of those populations after such an event would be radically new, they would also be far more stable than our current system but the degree of loss in complexity would be astounding.

The second question is far more difficult to approach as the variables are endless and one can only make conjectures as to what is possible. All of us who have thought of these issues have considered the horror that is possible, and many of us have felt terror contemplating such things. However, I want to end this by looking forward to the possibility of a more hopeful and even better future.

This is not to make light of what we as a species are about to encounter. Getting from here to there is going to be painful and difficult to say the least. I have little doubt that we will see wars, uprisings, atrocities, natural and-man made disaster as well as a decrease in populations (deaths) on a global scale unparalleled in history in terms of sheer numbers. These events will affect the human psyche for the rest of its history in one form or another. Still, between delusion and despair lays clarity.


The poet and philosopher Rainer Maria Rilke wrote:

"People have, with the help of so many conventions, resolved everything the easy way, on the easiest side of easy. But it is clear that we must embrace struggle. Every living thing conforms to it. Everything in nature grows and struggles in its own way, establishing its own identity, insisting on it at all cost, against all resistance. We can be sure of very little, but the need to court our struggle is a surety that will not leave us. [..]

The fact that something is difficult must be one more reason to do it. ".


It is my conjecture that the struggle we are headed into could lead to an unparalleled transformation of humanity. That it could lead to the birth of cultures that are healthier and happier than any before known by our species. Societies that will look back on our times with the same astonishment at our barbarity as we look on those societies that burned their people at the stake or cut out their hearts atop pyramids.

I often tell people in conversation that we are living in an age of dinosaurs. Massive beasts in the shape of nation states and corporations roam our planet, consuming resources, metabolizing them and excreting waste. The very logic of their organization will lead to the energy scarcity that will precipitate their extinction. It is my view in light of this metaphor that our job is to be mammals. As the ecological "equilibrium" of these systems starts to break down from energy/resource scarcity, those groups that are able to organize more efficiently, sustainably and ultimately with greater local energy density, will be the societies that are selected for.

Thus forming the base for healthier, more functional cultures to radiate from. They will be islands of stability in an ecological/economic collapse, and their adaptations that make them more fit for survival will form the basis of an Ecocultural revolution. As the old systems break down populations will look increasingly towards new narratives and models that work, adapting those behaviours to their own localities in a process of lateral transmission and organic emergence that has always underpinned true social transformation.


I do not want to make too many claims on what such societies would look like, for certainly sustainability in Montana will look different than that in Maine, or Russia or all the other myriad locations of human society. Some will be religious communities, others anarchist, others quasi feudal. What I will hazard is that the logical cultural hallmarks of these societies will be increased local resiliency with production and the vast majority of needs met locally.

These systems of production will manifest through incredibly sophisticated observations and interactions with their environments. I would also hazard that the most successful of these societies will exhibit high levels of compassion and individual freedom. There are two good reasons for this.

One is that compassionate societies that take care of their members have higher levels of trust and cohesiveness. They more efficiently distribute resources for the good of the larger community increasing their ability to operate and survive in difficult times.

The second is that societies that do not force individuals into monolithic, pre-scripted narratives of behaviour increase the adaptability of their individual members and thus the total community. By creating a society that embraces a diversity of ideas and behaviours in its population it algorithmically increases the possible responses of the society to various circumstances.

So I want to take a moment to imagine a possible future, one that is in my view ideal but not impossible. I think of societies where human existential, social and emotional needs are met by a system of production capable of supporting material needs through a sophisticated analysis and interaction with the ecological and thermodynamic process in which it is imbedded.


I often imagine a world where children dive and play amongst the reefs formed by our submerged cities. A world filled with small city states, rural communities and tribes. I imagine them as able to harness some of our old knowledge through recycling and reusing what they can of the vast wealth produced by our own ancient civilization. Perhaps they can produce electricity, transmit radio waves and still listen to the grand and beautiful music of our culture.

I envision their habitats as ecological gardens, by relying on what they are capable of producing locally and efficiently and by distributing with an egalitarian ethos they are able to free themselves up for other cultural pursuits. I see individuals that are free to pursue their passions in the context of supportive communities creating deeper security, connection and meaning in their lives.

Imagine a society where education and learning are freed from causal economic narratives and embraced as one of the great joys and passions of human consciousness. Where Art and Philosophy are celebrated purely for the joy of the acts themselves. Imagine societies that work conscientiously with their people from early childhood to old age, cultivating their unique abilities and awareness to ever more profound understanding and self expression of existence.

Imagine communities surrounded by vast tracts of wilderness and between those vast and wild lands routes that connect communities for trade and communication. Perhaps they will ply the seas in sailing ships. Perhaps it is all just fantasy but I would rather spend my life working towards renaissance than fleeing apocalypse.

In my view there is no more noble and honourable task that we might take on in our lifetimes than to try and create this future for our descendents. To create a world in which we are the ancients that they look upon with that mixture of horror and awed respect, forgiving us our confusion and complexity for having done our best with what we knew.


The endeavour is monumental and far from assured. We would have to analyze all that we know of our world and humanity to see what has worked and what has failed in order to assemble a new vision from a collage of working parts. We would have to operate in our communities with radical creativity and criticality and we would have to embrace the possibility of failure with the dignity of having tried.

In the words of Rilke:

"Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."




Image top: Raja Ravi Varma "King Dasaratha finds Queen Kaikeyi collapsed on a tile floor" 1895, WikiCommons


 

Posted: 9 months, 2 weeks ago by gurusid #4826
Hi ZuluBudha,

Forgive my lack of clarity, when talking of extinction I was alluding to the extinction of the current ‘industrial human society’.

Also I too have some Irish ancestry (the rest is Cornish), from some great grand parents who for all I know might have ‘fled’ the later famines of 1879 and 1885. They ended up in the Staffordshire potteries before trying America, not liking it and returning to the midlands. However, while aware of my bodies ‘genealogical’ past, I eschew any fixed identity having studied and understood the Buddhist proposition that no permanent self can be found anywhere, all is constant flux and movement; a reality that is constantly arising and ceasing.

In terms of feedback are you familiar with Mae Wan Ho’s work on quantum coherence in living systems at the macro scale? - she has an interesting book “The Rainbow and The Worm” which examines this in some detail, and seeks to give an answer to Erwin Schordinger’s 1944 work “What is Life”. There is also her organisation the Institute of Science in society (ISIS - www.i-sis.org.uk/index.php) which has looked at the way living systems entrain ‘energy’ and has come up with the idea of a Dream Farm based upon these principles:

Quote:

“Sustainable systems as organisms
Essentially, the ‘zero-waste’ or ‘zero-entropy’ model of the organism and sustainable systems predicts balanced development and growth at every stage, as opposed to the dominant model of infinite, unsustainable growth. This immediately disposes of the myth that the alternative to the dominant model is to have no development or growth at all, and that is how most critics of the dominant model see it, including the New Economics Foundation, for example, which sees itself as very radical [5].
The dominant model of infinite competitive growth can be represented as the bigger fish swallowing the smaller ad infinitum (Fig. 1), and it describes equally how a person should behave and how a company should develop in order to be successful.

Figure 1 - see website.

Figure 1. Big fish swallows small fish swallows little fish
A person grows at the expense of other people; a company grows by taking over other companies, laying waste to the earth’s resources in the meantime. There is no closed cycle to hold resources within, to build up stable organised social or ecological structures. Not surprisingly, this is totally unsustainable, which is why we are faced with global warming and the energy crisis.
In contrast, the archetype of a sustainable system is a closed lifecycle, like that of an organism, it is ready to grow and develop, to build up structures in a balanced way and perpetuate them, and that’s what sustainability is all about. Closing the cycle creates a stable, autonomous structure that is self-maintaining, self-renewing and self-sufficient.
In order to do that, you need to satisfy as much as possible the zero-entropy or zero-waste ideal (Fig. 2). We tend towards that ideal, which is why we don’t fall apart, and grow old only very slowly. If we were perfect, you realise, we’d never grow old.

Entropy diagram - see website.

This diagram says no waste or disorganisation (entropy) accumulates in the system. Even the waste (entropy) exported to the outside is minimised towards zero in a healthy balanced system. The more we approach that ideal, the better the system can develop and grow, and remain young and vibrant.
The system’s cycle contains more cycles within that are interlocked to help one another thrive and prosper. The minimum integrated farm has the farmer, livestock and crops. They work by reciprocity and devolved autonomy.”

End Quote.
From: www.i-sis.org.uk/DreamFarm2.php

While this is great in terms of sustainability, in terms of entropy life itself seems to exhibit what Schrodinger termed ‘negentropy’, that is the ability to defy entropy by becoming ‘more’ organised.

“The reason 'negentropy' continues to be used is that 'entropy with a negative sign' simply does not capture what is intended by the original term. Schrödinger uses it to identify the remarkable ability of the living system, not only to avoid the effects of entropy production - as dictated by the second law - but to do just the opposite, to increase organization, which intuitively, seems like the converse of entropy. Szent-Györgi, on the other hand, alludes to both the notions of free energy and of organization in his use of the term. Both scientists have the right intuition - energy and organization are inextricably bound up with each other.”


From: www.i-sis.org.uk/negentr.php

This last article just quoted goes on to discuss in depth the thermodynamics of organised complexity in which dissipative structures are coupled cycles, ending with a definition of ‘negentropy’:

“'Negentropy', as stored mobilizable energy in a space-time structured (organized) system, can be intuitively understood as follows. In an equilibrium system, energy is fixed, which in turn fixes the population of energy levels characteristic of the temperature of the system. In a nonequilibrium system such as the organism, energy is stored over all space-time domains. For a given temperature, the energy stored is no longer fixed, but on account of efficient coupling, becomes transferred to ever larger space-time domains (starting from the photon trapped in photosynthesis, or the energy in food) until all characteristic domains are equally populated. This implies that the organism itself has no preferred levels, its activities spanning the 'quantum' to 'classical', from the 'microscopic' through 'mesoscopic' to the ' macroscopic' in a quasi-continuum of self-similar patterns.”


I though this somewhat paralleled your own model so thought it worth a mention,

Best Wishes,
L,
Sid.
Posted: 9 months, 2 weeks ago by ZuluBuddha #4825
Jal, I agree that it will be different but I think that short of total sterilization, i.e. the sun explodes, there is no question that life will recover. I think that the permian extinction shows that quite resoundingly.

www.skepticalscience.com/Earths-five-mass-extinction-events.html
Posted: 9 months, 2 weeks ago by jal #4823
However given what we know about the nature of life once that equilibrium is achieved it will start to recover, hopefully we are part of that process.


Just a small nit-pick ...

"... it will start to recover"

I think that you are expressing too much optimism.

Let's just say that it will be different than now.
Posted: 9 months, 2 weeks ago by ZuluBuddha #4822
Hello Sid,
Thanks for the response, I have put into a compilation of all the criticism and reflection I have received as I find it all invaluable. I wanted to express a few thoughts. Firstly I am well aware of the political nature of the potato famine. My family is Irish and was a strong part of the cultural memory that was passed on to me. Regardless though the result was famine and I was speaking more to the impact that experiencing famine has on individuals, communities and family dynamics regardless of what conditions created it. That is not to dismiss the effects that colonization, oppression and injustice have upon individuals. On a side note it is an issue that particularly raises my ire when my ethnic and cultural identity is reduced to being "white". My people are Irish and damned if they were considered "white", or racially superior throughout the vast majority of their history. That is a very recent phenomenon and one that requires that near total obliteration of Irish history.

As for shifting baselines, you are absolutely correct. It is the issue of the frog boiling in the water. I am certainly not arguing that there is no or even just superficial damage to the biosphere, and the longer it takes for us to adapt it will only get worse. Of course the worse things degrade the more powerful the pressure becomes, so there will be a point of equilibrium even if that is our extinction. However given what we know about the nature of life once that equilibrium is achieved it will start to recover, hopefully we are part of that process.

Finally I agree that we are always in a process of constructing narratives about our past. These are inherently shaped by our subjective biases. However I do believe that it is possible to created more accurate and less accurate narratives. My point was that we cannot truly know the individuality of our ancestors, but we can at least hold our selves to a standard of intellectual honesty that at least accepts that and tries to incorporate it into our narrative.

All the best - Alex
Posted: 9 months, 2 weeks ago by gurusid #4821
Hi ZuluBuddha,

Interesting attempt at sketching a 'big picture' reality. O f course one of the biggest problems here is our own somewhat self referential 'internal bubble' reality as exposed with the problem of shifting baselines:

Quote:

"Shifting Environmental Baselines
From the Preface: "In my work as a scientist, I find that few people really appreciate how far the oceans have been altered from their pre-exploitation state, even among professionals like fishery biologists or conservationists. A collective amnesia surrounds changes that happened more than a few decades ago, as hardly anyone reads old books or reports. People also place most trust in what they have seen for themselves, which often leads them to dismiss as far-fetched tales of giant fish or seas bursting with life from the distant, or even the recent past. The worst part of these 'shifting environmental baselines' is that we come to accept the degraded condition of the sea as normal. Those charged with looking after the oceans set themselves unambitious management targets that simply attempt to arrest declines, rather than rebuild to the richer and more productive states that existed in the past. If we are to break out of this spiral of diminishing returns and diminished expectations of the sea, then it is vital that we gain a clearer picture of how things have changed and what has been lost."
From Chapter 18: "The idea of shifting baselines is familiar to us all and does not just relate to the natural environment. It helps explain why people tolerate the slow crawl of urban sprawl and loss of green space, why they fail to notice increasing noise pollution, and why they put up with longer and longer commutes to work. Changes creep up on us, unnoticed by younger generations who have never known anything different. The young write off old people who rue the losses they have witnessed as either backward or dewy-eyed romantics. But what about the losses that none alive today have seen? In most parts of the world, human impacts on the sea extend back for hundreds of years, sometimes more than a thousand. Nobody alive today has seen the heyday of cod or herring. None has watched sporting groups of sperm whales five hundred strong, or seen alewife run so thick up rivers there seemed more fish than water. The greater part of the decline of many exploited populations happened before anybody alive today was born."
The Unnatural History of the Sea reconstructs marine ecosystems that have been lost over the centuries to fishing, hunting, pollution and habitat degradation. Descriptions in the book bring alive past oceans as our predecessors saw them.
Web Link:
Shifting Baselines, a Partnership Between Hollywood and Ocean Conservation
www.shiftingbaselines.org/index.php"

End Quote.

From: www.york.ac.uk/res/unnatural-history-of-the-sea/baselines/index.htm

Also your comment about the Irish Potato famine needs careful scrutiny:
"What became known as the great famine occurred between 1845 and 52 and was one of the greatest catastrophies of the nineteenth century. It resulted in the deaths of millions of people from starvation and disease and a decline in Irelands population through emigration. It was thought by many to be an English induced famine used by a greedy government to solve the Irish question. The potato failed from blight but the country was full of food, which was taken away from those who grew it, to be consumed by the expanding workforce of the industrial boom in England or by its army overseas. The English hid behind the fact that they were the constitutional government for the Irish people pretending to be concerned by begging food for her people abroad while at the same time by constitutional policies taking the food from the people. They were ruthless in putting down all attempts by the Irish for self-government and all attempts of resistance. They passed laws that made it a crime for a father to protect his children or his home from destruction. They passed coercion laws that made it a crime for the Irish to leave their homes between sunrise and sunset or to hold arms. They had a well-fed armed guard of military and police watch over them while they starved. Never in the history of mankind was there a government who acted so cruelly to its people. Ireland never needed the begging bowl it had its own food grown in its own land and only needed its own concerned legislatures to pass laws to save her people. The constitutional Government of England was then the most powerful in the world and had the ear of the world through its influence and press. They manipulated the facts to cover up the real truth of what was happening in Ireland the mass murder of its people and the destruction of Ireland. An English induced constitutional famine."

End quote.

From: www.wolfetonesofficialsite.com/famine.htm

They were not fleeing hunger, they were persecuted 'political' (the result of policy) refugees.

This also pretty much sums up the current policy of 'global governance' IMHO, indigenous food production is destroyed by 'aid' and replaced with cash crops for export. It also bodes ill for the future... Adapting to any of this 'human presence' is going to be at best difficult, and at worst impossible.

More likely is some form of 'discontinuity event' which you touch on in the theme of punctuated equilibrium which will in turn puncture the mind bubbles of sufficient humans to allow for another reality to form. Extinction is also another highly possible scenario.

I note that you also use neo-darwinian terminology ("selected for" etc). This points to the current 'view through the glass darkly' of today's Hi-Story, for our reality is always little more than the stories we tell ourselves, with our own language. Trying to project this back into an assumed past is but part of that story. We just do not know what 'their story' was, yet alone what language (as in the 'meaning' behind the words, not just the words themselves) they used and how they really saw their world. All we can do is project.

For instance, there is a 'story' that many millennia ago there existed a 'Celtic' empire that ran up from north Africa/Mediterranean all the way up the west coast of Europe into what is now called the British Isles. This 'empire' had many clans and tribes, but a primary organising principle was the Druidic system where Druids where trained for twenty years in the sacred 'way'. It was only after this long apprenticeship that they were allowed out into the broader society where they acted as guides and council to the people. A society that was highly egalitarian; where for instance anyone who lost their spouse would receive food from the wider community, and where orphans were fostered to relatives. They had knowledge of the bodies energy meridians two thousand years before the Chinese. (acupuncturetoday.com/mpacms/at/article.php?id=27608). Compare that to the Invading Romans, whose hierarchical thought system saw people as objects, and any non Roman object as a potential slave or fodder for the Coliseum. Orphaned children were unceremoniously thrown on the rubbish tip, dead or alive. My point being that this Roman Empire never collapsed but morphed into the 'Holy Roman Empire' whose thought structures in terms of story telling we are still immersed in today; that being a world view consisting primarily of object/subject hierarchies. The 'Great Way' of the Buddhists, Daoists and Druids cannot exist in such a framework... hence westerners mis/in-comprehension of so many 'eastern' traditions (not that there are many of those left intact).

Sorry if this makes little sense, some things are after all, just beyond words.

L,
Sid.
Posted: 9 months, 2 weeks ago by Brunswickian #4812
It is all very well to have a positive attitude and all but the fact is h saps saps is looking straight down the barrel of extinction. Climate change has hit tipping points. When the oceans are dead whattya gonna breathe?


Consider the extreme climate events that are happening RIGHT NOW and factor in the buffering effects of the oceans. 40 years is a commonly mentioned figure. Face it, we're toast!
Posted: 9 months, 2 weeks ago by David Peter #4801
Brilliant article Aston, you wrote:

"Humanity's greatest ecological pressure is itself."

and

"The Christian worldview, its behavioural/cultural genetics or memes, describes a system of mutual aid and care giving, i.e. "love thy neighbour"."

If mimesis is key to understanding human behaviour, as proposed by René Girard,

RenGirard-photo.jpg


then the object of our desire, and further, the subject or our desire, is the prime driver of our evolution.

So who do we model our lives on?

One possibility, for example, is the imitation of Christ.

What kind of "civilization" could result from following Christ lead?

I do believe that we are capable of desiring Jesus Christ, and that such desire is in our best interests, and that by so desiring, a renaissance awaits us, where we can leave behind, as you wrote, "an age of dinosaurs [where] massive beasts in the shape of nation states and corporations roam our planet, consuming resources, metabolizing them and excreting waste".

What we need above all is love and hope.

Best wishes

David Peter - When doing something for the first time, always expect the unexpected!
Posted: 9 months, 2 weeks ago by snuffy #4797
Nice brain food...
The early Christian ethos made a stronger, more stable primary unit IE family/society...which replaced the Roman..by nurture,rather than nature..which was the base of Greek and Roman...
Who knows were we are headed?...It has occurred to me the smallest units in some ways can be the strongest....but now,we have seen the essential "atom-ization" of family structure here in the USA.[How many even know where extended family even lives?]

What has also come about, is one of society's more interesting evolution's that still has a way to go..I mean of course the self structuring,self evolving creatures of the web,such as TAE.

The web allows the self-strucure of ANY sort of community.One can think in terms of societies that are formed and reformed until the original members do not recognize why they are members[and leave,in droves]
Back in 1996-7 I was involved in a y2k discussion group on usenet ...CSy2k...which evolved into a greenspun discussion board,which was [I thought]hijacked by someone who saw a money machine into its "present" form.

[never mind who,they are politically to the right of ghengis khan with a hard right christian bend.

I look at that whole time of my life as a real educational experience.It first set me to thinking just what the hell would I do in the event of a really serious emergency.That is when I chose to live out in the sticks,as far as employment would let me,and started planting fruit trees.I am still out in the sticks,planting fruit trees 20 years later...and keeping bees...and living what I have always thought, how one should live.

In most cases I have seen,self-organised communities failed the longevity test when the things that caused their formation changed...or the person['s] with the "charismatic factor"died,or were otherwise unable to hold the myriad strings of a community together.
It is my belief that the strongest communities we will see develop in our future,may/will be the ones that form under duress,with the personal schisms of unhappy relationships sublimated by the very real threats that will exist from surrounding environments.
This will be the real "society-building"


Bee good,or
Bee careful



snuffy
Posted: 9 months, 2 weeks ago by Basseterre Kitona #4792
Wow, great writing. Nicely done, Mr. Aston. Bravo!

And call me crazy, but I actually see seeds of that imagined future already beginning to emerge in what many people still disregard as the wasteland of Detroit, Michigan. It's a city that certainly has it's problems & dangers still, but it's also ahead of the curve when it comes to collapse.
Posted: 9 months, 2 weeks ago by ZuluBuddha #4791
Hello Carol,
Thanks for the thoughts. Firstly I feel that there is a large difference between "distorts" and "incapable". To distort means to twist or warp something, meaning that is not holding its true form. However this does not mean that it is completely "untrue" the fundamental structure is still there, we have just altered it through our perception of it. This is very different from incapable. Rather I just think we can take some of the cultural twists that we have put on the process so that we can look at the historical process closer to its real nature.

This leads into your question, "in which empathy with the reality of forbearers led to a fuller understanding of current reality?" (I really appreciated this by the way.)

I think that one of the greatest examples we have is the Italian Renaissance. I think that it represents a period where an intense curiosity and desire to understand the minds and culture of the classical period resulted in massive cultural transformation in the present. While I am not trying to say there was not mythologizing and distortion in this process it was a real attempt to empathize with and understand their ancestors and that there were many positive and beautiful effects.

Cheers - Alex
Posted: 9 months, 2 weeks ago by SecularAnimist #4784
Fantastic post.

My post on here from about a year ago.

"Now the world system is in a structural/systemic crises, in its final stage, once more -we are approaching a transition akin to that of the neolithic/industrial revolutions and eventually a new system will arise. A new world order. This time around things will happen much much faster. It took the neolithic revolution several thousand years to take over the globe, the industrial revolution took just a few hundred and this next one will take just a few decades. Speed of information transfer is the key to rates of change. History seems to actually moves faster, in a kind of telescoping nature for epochal change. Most of us will get to witness the destruction of this old world system and the birth of a new in our lifetime.

The question is what is next? "
Posted: 9 months, 2 weeks ago by sumac.carol #4783
I liked the spirit of the article very much, but the intro left some questions.

“we distort our ability to truly empathize and understand the humanity of those who preceded us and in doing so we distort our ability to understand our own position in history and relationship to those that will follow us.”

Your basic position seems to be that we are incapable of truly understanding history, but you then go on to try to do just that….


“it is important that we work to empathize with their reality as best we can so that we might understand our own more fully.”

Can you name some examples in which empathy with the reality of forbearers led to a fuller understanding of current reality? It sounds like a platitude. On the contrary, there are many examples in which we don’t learn much from our errors, such that, in trying to predict the future, we often quite confidently and reasonably assume that the same errors will be repeated.
Posted: 9 months, 2 weeks ago by Jhem #4781
Beautiful article, inspiring!
Posted: 9 months, 2 weeks ago by ZuluBuddha #4780
No worries Ashvin, I certainly understand not wanting to get into a discussion about such things here. I would only say briefly that the Judaeo-Christian metaphysics are from plane. While I am not a Christian I have a deep affinity for the Greek version of John describing God as Logos and believe absolutely that the ethics of Jesus express logos amongst humanity. I promise I am not trying to draw you in a discussion, I just wanted to express that there is probably more that we agree upon than you think.
Posted: 9 months, 2 weeks ago by ashvin #4779
ZuluBuddha wrote:
Ashvin, I would be very curious as to your metaphysical views if you ever care to share. Cheers - Alexander


Nothing fancy... just plain old Judeo-Christian metaphysics.

I won't get into any discussions/debates about that here, though.
Posted: 9 months, 2 weeks ago by ZuluBuddha #4778
Ashvin, I would be very curious as to your metaphysical views if you ever care to share. Cheers - Alexander
Posted: 9 months, 2 weeks ago by ashvin #4777
Alexander,

Your response was more than adequate... it was excellent. We probably don't agree on the specifics of the metaphysics involved and its implications, but your framework is obviously a lot more nuanced and comprehensive than I first thought.

I look forward to reading more of your thoughts!
Posted: 9 months, 2 weeks ago by ZuluBuddha #4775
Ashvin,
I sincerely appreciate the criticism as that was the original reason I sent my musings to Ilargi. I would like to justify myself a little in that the essay is an attempt at boiling down a few observations and I know that there is much that is left out and truncated. A description of history is far from "the thing in itself" so to speak. The narrative constructs that we develop always have aspects of mythologizing to them. I think that it is probably unavoidable and that it is up to our individual ethic to try and be aware of the far greater complexity and magnitude of reality than any attempt to describe it can actually encapsulate. Perhaps “demythologizing” is the wrong term, maybe it is an issue of selecting for better myths. To try and reduce the billions of psyches and their interactions over the course of millennia to a few pages is undoubtedly a simplification and probably a bit hubristic. Certainly I worry about making things sound reductionist, mechanistic and linear. It also worries me that you feel that my framework "totally leaves out any role for human spirituality and metaphysics" as I value this aspect of our humanity deeply. The irony for me is that the process I have been attempting to describe is something that I perceive and feel on a very spiritual level. This is obviously something that I must refine in my communication. The idea that the emergence of our cultures are predicated on human consciousness responding to its own presence in the world has powerful metaphysical implications to me.

So just a few thoughts in response to you uneasiness. On reflection my statements can look a little absolutist which enforces a perception of mechanistic linearity. We can put the idea of simple mechanistic selection to rest when we look at how close the Chinese, the Islamic caliphate and the classical Greco-Roman world all came to the advent of industrialization. Certainly if it was so perfectly linear industrialization would have been selected for with the development of the first steam powered device at the beginning of the Christian era (and the mess would have long ago resolved itself one way or another).

I also did not intend to strip the peoples that I mentioned of the depth and intensity of their world views. The Christians for example were not simply operating on a cost benefit analysis of material returns. They had true, passionate belief in what they espoused that in turn molded and shaped their actions far beyond just food and care. However the providing of service was a behavioural expression of those beliefs that allowed them to “compete” more successfully.

My hope with the descriptions of historical events was to describe the material circumstances that helped form the parameters of emergence within the cultures I mentioned. You are correct, within those parameters a multitude of worldviews and behaviours existed. What influenced or predisposed the individuals that constituted those societies to select for and organize around some ideas and not others? What created the attraction towards certain values and modes of being even if there were “better options” available (I immediately think of Babbage’s Analytical Engine and Tesla’s research but there are many examples and many beyond just material advents). The best term that I have ever come across for the real complexity of human causality is Karma. It was one of the things I really wanted to elicit in my writing, the sense that we are in dialogue with and shaped by relationships, perceptions and actions from countless generations preceding us. The subtlety of that can be overwhelming and largely impossible to verify. For example I wonder how the experience of the Irish fleeing the potato famine and the dynamics that would have developed in Irish families and communities as a response to that have affected the culture of food in America some 160 years later. I am not saying this to be trivial, roughly 12% of the United States are descended from people that experienced a severe famine and this undoubtedly has had a powerful karmic impact on family and cultural dynamics. I suppose that what I am saying is that the rabbit hole goes really deep on that one.

As best I understand it our universe appears to select for complexity and this complexity seems to be directly linked to thermodynamic flows. I believe that evolution and human consciousness reiterate this process. However there is massive variability in this process, and by the time we hit something as complex as human consciousness that relationship becomes unbelievably profound, but as best I know these are the rules by which we play the game. I don’t think of this as something that limits our freedom but is rather the condition by which our freedom is made possible. We are an entity that imbues this world with value and meaning, and what value and meaning we create is invariably a metaphysical decision. Even in the case of science, the decision to value quantifiable phenomenon over non quantifiable or qualitative phenomenon as having greater truth value is a metaphysical leap of faith (as far I know we have yet to find a truth particle). So for me this does bring in the spiritual element of the whole process, we know we must play by the rules of the game, yet it is the value and meaning that we embody and imbue that determines how we play the game. This is probably the greatest freedom in the universe. So in the end whether and how we survive will be as much a metaphysical/spiritual relationship with our world as it will be a material manifestation.

Ashvin, I thank you for your criticisms, they have given me much to reflect on and I hope that my response was adequate enough. Sincerely - Alex
Posted: 9 months, 2 weeks ago by digging #4774
That is a good question what is the difference between a society or group of people and civilization?

One other way people organized themselves in the past was based on the family structure. The tribes of north america were extended family units and we of course have the example in the bible of the Jews organizing based on thier family tribes. I'm sure there are many more examples and perhaps we forget that simple human relationships have the power to aid in keeping the peace as it were.

Perhaps we know we are in civilization when we don't 'know' anyone any more?

Digging
Posted: 9 months, 2 weeks ago by SteveB #4773
I suspect that it will be more worthwhile to not look at "civilization" as a whole, but at what it's composed of. What's the distinction between society and civilization? What's necessary? What's not? I've shared my perspective on money. I haven't seen other suggestions beyond what might fall into the category of rules (e.g., laws and policies) and new ways of thinking or living. But how will either be enacted to a meaningful degree when the incentives remain in place? Even if some subset of the population changes how they live and operate, those who continue believing we need an "economy" will move us further toward collapse.
Posted: 9 months, 2 weeks ago by digging #4771
I wish to add a thought/question for you to consider.....is it possible that civilization is a 'tool' we have created for the purpose of taking to much from the earth and others, and we will not need this 'tool' once we learn how to simply accept and receive from the earths abundance?
Posted: 9 months, 2 weeks ago by ashvin #4770
Alexander,

Great post. As someone who thinks about these systemic developments in very similar ways, I would like to present a brief critique. I agree completely with everything you said in the first part (before the picture), i.e.

Yet why is this idea of reframing the narrative so important? I would argue that if we do not demythologize our history we will be incapable of demythologizing ourselves, and if our understanding of our lineage is mythic then our relationship to our own times is equally so


I also agree with many of the points you make in your historical description, but I can't help but think you are also trying to take a bunch of complicated human psychology, social relationships and developments over time, and distill out a historic mythology of your own - one rooted in a very naturalist philosophy of fractal systems evolution. Indeed, you start with the very beginning of the Universe and work your way to present day.

Like I said, I do the same thing in my thoughts and writing quite often. But, when we do that, it also feels that we are artificially simplifying or trivializing historical events (and, by implication, potential current and future outcomes) for the sake of maintaining our general systems philosophy. For example, here are some of your statements that I am uneasy with:

"What we can see in evolution is that that the organism’s most capable of harnessing available energy are the most fit."

...

"Simply put, the human mind represents the sum logic of evolution, for the purpose of harnessing available energy, in a singular organism. Instead of adapting physiologically it adapts behaviourally, furthering the geometric growth in complexity."

...


"Christianity went from being a cult of ostensibly 12 families to the dominant religion of the empire in less than 400 years. No small feat in a world where the fastest form of travel was the Trireme. This is often described as one of the "miracles" of Christianity and I am sure there would be those that would be quite displeased to hear me say it would be more appropriately called natural selection."

...

"As more people were saved by Christian charity they adopted what was a more functional model of social organization in terms of survival.

Of course this all came with cosmological justification that was transmitted with the behaviour. In this way Christianity was able to grow geometrically in the empire and undercut and supplant the social order despite powerful attempts to stop the process. Adaptation and evolution by any other name."

...

Around the same time wealth from the New World began to pour into Europe, largely through the Spanish conquest of the Americas. One could also argue that the age of discovery was fueled by geography. With Portugal and Spain on the periphery of the major Italian economic centers and with dense populations prohibiting expansion to the east they were directed towards oceanic exploration and expansion in the west to fuel their economies.

...

Thus nations on the periphery of the old medieval order - the Church of Rome -, became both more economically powerful and independent. It was this combination of economic transformation, infused with humanist values of the Renaissance spreading north, that helped spark the reformation.

Economic independence provided the insulation necessary for a new conception of human relationship to take root and challenge the authority of Rome.


I say I am "uneasy" with these and other similar statements because, while they are accurate in many ways, they seem to form an evolutionary systems mythology that excludes many other aspects of humanity and human civilization. Every idea, every social transformation, every cultural development, every technological feat, etc. is explained solely in terms of this nearly inevitable evolutionary framework. Are we really so sure that is how reality works?

It is clear, for example, that your framework totally leaves out any role for human spirituality and metaphysics, which, in the case of the the last 1700 years of the Western world, is represented by Christianity. But the same could be said for any time period and geography in which any type of religion/spirituality existed in the last 10,000 years. If the "natural evolution" of Universal and human history is not really so strictly "natural", then our picture of the past, present and future significantly changes.

If "demythologizing" means stripping out the value of every mythical conception produced by humanity, then we may be going way overboard in our efforts to produce a consistent and coherent theory of history. Again, that's not to say your framework would completely fall apart, but it would be simplifying the situation to a level that may lead us to miss key evidence and draw erroneous conclusions.
Posted: 9 months, 2 weeks ago by Bodhi #4769
The problem with not collapsing is that it's not possible. If we don't collapse we'll just keep on doing what we're doing until we do collapse. I don't see any way to climb back down to sustainability (whatever that means) - that level is so far below where we are right now that the climb down would look/feel like collapse anyway.

I prefer the approach of weaning myself off the need to feel I'm in control, loosening my fear of the unknown, letting go of my attachments to memories and expectations, and watching in delighted amazement as things unfold. But YMMV...
Posted: 9 months, 2 weeks ago by pipefit #4768
@Bodhi--Agree on nuke bombs. They are in hardened silos, I believe.

Nuke power plants are another matter. And, that is sort of a metaphor for technology in general.

You said, "Humans are quite good at surviving in the safety of the cracks." That's possible. Maybe there will be a remote island where the air and water aren't too badly contaminated with disease or other pollutants. Seems kind of far fetched given the million year half lives of plutonium, cesium, etc. Also, any modern technology that is present will slowly devolve in 'myth and legend', possibly as part of some pagan-type religion.

A far better strategy for the survival of the species is avoid a meltdown (pun intended) of civilization below the previously mentioned threshold. Once modern medicine breaks down, the species will be extremely vulnerable to disease epidemics, especially those groups that are currently the most heavily vaccinated. As you know, those are also the most educated and technologically advanced.

I could see an Amazon tribe as the sole survivors. But in that case, the meltdown better happen while there is still an Amazon Forest. So you can see, your argument is fraught with risk at every conceivable turn. Better if some sort of prevention manifests itself.
Posted: 9 months, 2 weeks ago by Bodhi #4767
@pipefit: You say, "Either the decline phase of which you speak is avoided entirely, or all it's all over for the species." I think you're being a bit too black and white here.

First, we can't predict the unfolding of the future with anything like that degree of certainty. Literally anything may happen, though some events have higher probability than others. I can think of many ways in which a decline might be halted short of bouncing off the rocks.

Second, the idea that nuclear power plants, waste repositories and bomb dumps could exterminate our species if we stop monitoring them is far too extreme. Yes, some power plants could go out of control if their active safety systems were allowed to decay before the cores were shut down; decaying fuel containments can release nasties into the surrounding air, water and land; bombs would probably just sit there unless some scavenger opened one up. However, from what I know about radioactive materials, I'd bet that the danger zones would be quite localized. Perhaps there would be a lot of them, and perhaps some would be quite lethal, but that isn't enough to do in our species. Humans are quite good at surviving in the safety of the cracks.

I think of us as the super-intelligent cockroaches that featured in lurid early-50's sci-fi movies. Our species survived Toba, after all. A few nukes can't bring us down that easily. I think we should accept that we can't know the future, let alone control it, so we should just wait and see what happens as it becomes the present. It's bound to be a fascinating experience.

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