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When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner





Detroit Publishing Co. Nôtre Dame de Montréal 1900 "Main altar, Church of Notre Dame, Montreal, Quebec."
 

This is a Guest Post by long time TAE regular, El Gallinazo.

A subject that commonly comes up in TAE is what to do with your savings if you have too much to stuff in "that creative place" that Nicole often refers to. And what she suggests is that the safest place to put it is in short term treasuries. If you are a citizen or a legal alien in the USA, that means T-bills, and if your money is not tax deferred, the only sensible way to do it is via Treasury Direct. A couple of days ago one of my closer friends sent me the following piece by Robert Moore on Rick’s Picks:

T-Bills May Offer Boomers a ‘Safe’ Way to Lose

She sent it with the message, "What's this mean?" She is never one for verbose emails. As you might imagine, the title of the article by Robert Moore, intrigued me, but as I read through it I became a bit irate, and I decided to reply with a comment. Well this comment got supersized and I thought it might have the makings of a feature on TAE. I haven't done one for almost a year. Instead of interleaving my commentary with the offending article, I would like to present it in a continuous format. So may I suggest that you read the Moore article and perhaps some of the comments and then come back.

I found this article to be quite irritating, not because your ideas were ipso facto bogus, but that you should label anyone who might disagree with them to be a fool and ignoramus. The entire premise of your article is that we are headed into a period of immediate global inflation or hyperinflation. However, there are some very bright people, Nicole Foss (Stoneleigh) of The Automatic Earth comes first to mind, who believe that the collapse of the global Ponzi, which began in 2008, and which is slowly accelerating, will result in the short term, perhaps several years, in a global deflationary depression.

She maintains that this deflation is already under way, in the Austrian School use of the word, as a net reduction in the sum of money, credit, and velocity. Mish also believes this. The continuing collapse of the shadow banking system and consequent credit destruction are the current cause though it is soon to spread to the TBTF banks and sovereign treasury bonds. This will lead in the short term to a price deflation of paper and physical assets in terms of the USD, which can already be seen in regard to US residential real estate.

The inflationistas will counter that the Fed and the other central banks will never allow a deflationary collapse. They will "print" their way eventually into hyperinflation (HI). (I put print in quotations because expanding debt through a central bank is really quite different from actually printing paper currency for which there is no true debt holder, but simply a dilution of the currency value.) This assumes that first they would want to, and second that they can. As to the first point, probably only the Rockefellers and the Rothschilds have an accurate idea of what the cartel's long term strategy is.

A severe deflation, which they would have prepared for as they have engineered it, would allow them to buy up the remaining physical assets of the globe for pennies on the dollar. And could they prevent it even if they wished to? The growth of the central bank's balance sheets of the USA, ECB, UK, and Japan since the collapse started in 2008 is less than $5T. (I am leaving China out as their statistics are moot). The collapse in global real estate values alone is considerably larger, and when you include all asset classes and throw in the quadrillion dollar derivative market, it is many times that. There are many expert analysts who predict that when the defaults begin in earnest, Uncle Ben and Don Capo Draghi will be as helpless as the Wizard of Oz to stop it. They will be overwhelmed by the collapse of the Ponzi resulting in a tsunami of default.

But let me regress for a moment to contemplate the strategic plans of the NWO. Some might say that the capos of the global banking cartel have no long term strategy. That they do not even discuss this concept with each other and all their actions are based upon fear and greed with a time horizon of 72 hours. They might even argue that the Bilderbergers, like Wendy's, simply wish to compete with McDonalds, and the Trilateral Commission and the CFR are just watering holes with good leather upholstery. But for those people who believe that the people who possess most of the world's wealth and coercive power might deem it as useful to construct a long term business plan as a garage based entrepreneur, we might give it a little thought.

My conclusion is that the final goal is to subject the global 99% into permanent debt serfdom. But if they permit the currencies upon which those debts were structured to go into hyperinflation, then the potential debt serfs could divert a wheelbarrow full of said currency from their home heating systems and buy their way out of life long debt servitude into the bright light of freedom, if one of debt free poverty. Ah yes, as Janis wailed, "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose." So I must conclude that the NWO capos regard HI as a potential disaster to be avoided.

But any intelligent economist, meaning one of the Austrian School, will freely admit that the natural consequence of the world's all time hugest bubble bursting is a deflationary collapse, as in deflation. And that the only way that could be conceivably avoided would be for the central banks to "print" stupendous amounts of offsetting credit. But this could lead to a global HI which are the bankers' worst nightmare as it would essentially lead to a jubilee for the 99%.

In a severe deflationary collapse, most assets will drastically lose value in nominal terms. In my opinion, the S&P 500 is absurdly overpriced. Every time the Fed or the ECB expands their balance sheets, whether covertly (currency swaps) or openly, the so call risk assets surge. So what are the options of a person with some savings? We have the general risk assets of equities and commodity futures, physical assets such as land and buildings as well as assorted junk from China, bonds excluding the US Treasury, US Treasuries, and the precious metals.

So if deflationary collapse, which I predict, does come to pass, then all but the last two will be obvious losers in both nominal and real terms. As to precious metals, it is my opinion that they will maintain their real value over the longer term, as they have since the time of Rome. However, I believe that during the collapse, PMs will lose nominal value for two basic reasons. First, their current nominal value is artificially high because it is propped up by extreme margin leverage extended primarily by the commodity brokers (such as MF Global) and their backers (JPMC). What do you think the value of paper gold would be if there were no credit to buy it on margin? And I think we are rapidly entering a world where most credit is disappearing.

Second, I think that many during the collapse will be forced to sell PMs, particularly gold, to meet margin calls, trying to stave off insolvency. Gold may be the only thing that anyone might be interested in buying at that point in time, and it would become a buyer's market. I do believe, however, that gold will be the first physical asset to recover.

So here we are with US Treasury Bills as the last of the list. Let me state for the record that I am a retiree with modest savings; that most of my savings are in 13 week treasuries purchased through Treasury Direct, and that I am currently living in Mexico in very modest comfort on my Social Security checks. In short, I am one of Robert's idiots.

Now let me direct my idiotic blather to several of his points as well as supporting commenters:

* When the currency of a country appears to be nearing collapse (most would regard this as imminent HI), then the yield on the bonds go into an exponential moon shot. This is because lenders would want to be compensated for the loss of real value as well as the probability of sovereign bond default. Greece is not a great example as it doesn't have its own currency, but look at the current yield of their six month bonds. One might look at Argentina 2000-02 for a better example. So Robert is correct that only we idiots would invest in sovereign debt at 0 or negative nominal yields.

Say a currency does go into a deflationary collapse of 7% per annum in terms of general purchasing power, and you hold bonds with a minus 2% yield. While you are losing 2% in nominal terms, you are actually gaining a 5% yield in real terms. This appears strange to people simply because the Fed criminals have kept the country in inflation since 1913 with a few modest exceptions such as the Great Depression.

* Moore suggests that it would be smarter to kept your savings in currency under your mattress than in T-bills. First, the Fed and the NWO Banking Cartel frown upon currency. It is one of the few remaining areas of freedom and privacy in the money world. They would prefer to have every pack of gum you purchase recorded in their computers, complete with brand and number of pieces contained in the package. In order to villainize cash, anyone with large sums is ipso facto regarded by the "authorities" as either a drug dealer or a terraist. And this tends to be at the discretion of the Secretary of the Treasury or his minions. Recent "laws" in this regard deprive you of any judicial recourse, on the off chance that the courts are not totally rigged.

So anyone holding large amounts of currency is subject to it's confiscation. Second, I challenge anyone to go to his bank, if you live in the USA, and try to withdraw, say $8000 in cash. See how easy and hassle free it is. First, they usually ask you, in writing, what it is for, like it is a loan and not your own money. When you tell them to go to hell, they tell you that Turbo Timmah made them ask it. For most, the only hassle free way to accumulate cash is to take out the daily max from your ATM. But I would imagine that the banks will shortly build a weekly or monthly limit into their ATM programs.

* Next we come to bank savings which includes CD's. Legally your savings are a loan to the bank, and with the repeal of Glass-Steagall, your bank may go to the casino and gamble with it as it sees fit, or give it out as a bonus for their deserving traders to purchase hookers and snort. And with recent federal legislation, holders of derivative instruments are the first in line when a bank fails. Please note the transfer of $60T in derivative wagers from the Merrill-Lynch division to the BAC FDIC flagship. Wonder why they did that?

The segregated accounts at MF Global were legally more secure than any checking account, CD, or money market account. They were essentially virtual safety deposit boxes in which MFG was given the authority to take out money only upon the account holder's explicit orders to purchase future contracts or cover margins. Yet Corzine and Dimon stole as much as $2B from these accounts without even a hiccup from Eric PlaceHolder, who was too busy running guns to the Zetas in Mexico. And you think your money in the bank is safe?

* And now we come to the FDIC. First, that Robert should accept the $250k limit at face value is bizarre. A joint account is insured up to $500k, and insurance goes by the account not by the person. So if some dude has five million bucks, he just opens up 20 accounts and puts $250k in each. No hay problema. But will the FDIC pay off on a systemic collapse of the banking system. Note that the C in FDIC stands for corporation. And it is basically broke as we breath. Are TPTB willing to monetize $5T to pay off account holders?

One may observe that the balance sheet of the Fed after all the illegal and quasi legal crap gone down over the last 4 years, including taking near worthless assets off the hands of their buddies at face value, stands at under $3T. So I don't think so. The Boyz don't put their money in checking accounts or CD's and the Boyz run the show. As the late George Carlin put it, "It's a club and you're not in it." I think it is far more probable that they will pay out the account holders a nominal sum, like $400 a month, until it is paid off in the 22nd century.

* As everyone interested in macroeconomics knows, since 1971 when Nixon closed the gold window, money is debt and nothing more. And the debt that supports the US currency is the Treasury debt. So the dollar is totally dependent on the confidence of the world in the US Treasury. The collapse of the Treasury would result in the dollar immediately becoming worthless, i.e. instant HI. There are some very intelligent people who believe that the NWO intends to collapse the dollar eventually and replace it with a global currency. I am one of them (though you may leave out the intelligent descriptive in my case).

And the easiest way to collapse the dollar is to collapse the confidence in the Treasury. However, in my opinion this is in the future and not the immediate future. And the advantage of buying T-bills through Treasury Direct is that you have no "private sector" broker in the middle (Jon Corzine for example) to steal them. The drawback is that you cannot use tax deferred funds to buy them. But the ominous future on tax deferred funds would be the makings of a rant for another day. It seems that people are becoming too irresponsible not to wait until after they die to withdraw them.

In a severe deflationary collapse, what appeared to be money during the bubble expansion (really credit) disappears with barely a trace as it is sucked into an alternate universe. Since the total sum of money and credit becomes a small fraction of what it was at the bubble's peak, the vast majority of asset holders become losers both in nominal and real terms. With a few very rare exceptions, the ones who lose the least - win.

So, in summary, I remain "invested" in 13 week T-bills through Treasury Direct and have no intention of being forced into risk assets or using up my modest savings in a couple of years and then eating dog kibble.

Your faithful idiot,

El Gallinazo

Posted: 1 year, 2 months ago by Reverse Engineer #1047
OK, I got up the Mobile Living/Nomadic article in conjunction with "OWS" day on DD. Surly got up another OWS article also.

www.doomsteaddiner.org/blog/2012/03/08/storage-unit-ows-professional-protester-paradigm-owsppp/

RE
Posted: 1 year, 2 months ago by Reverse Engineer #1044
hombre wrote:
There are not really any (livable) wilderness areas left large enough to accomodate a nomadic lifestyle. Once again, population density enters the picture.


I am no Spring Chicken either. However, I am not talking about living H-G here on a neolithic level, at least not for quite a while yet. You'll understand better what I am talking about after I get up the article later today.

RE
www.doomsteaddiner.org
Posted: 1 year, 2 months ago by hombre #1042
El G - Another fine post. Makes good sense to me!
I would think it would be better for folks to play it safe in short term TB's than to, later, be sorry, even for those who did not agree with your reasoning. What else to do with their stash? -- into the market!!??
Posted: 1 year, 2 months ago by hombre #1040
I am in the same situation, Bluebird. Another decade or so and I may be gone, or will likely be immobile at best.
As to this statement... "The key here is learning to live on unimproved land with temporary structures in a nomadic lifestyle."...
There are not really any (livable) wilderness areas left large enough to accomodate a nomadic lifestyle. Once again, population density enters the picture.
I suppose our best bet is to be "...nomadic of mind, if not of place..."
Actually, I am now thinking more about the well being of my kids and a granddaughter then I am for myself and spouse. We'll likely go down with the ship (of state). Right now some of my own family think my ideas about the near term future are somewhat silly, if not absurd, so I keep them mostly to myself--even while watching and planning.
One thing I avoid like the plague is becoming fixed into a "set" of beliefs. everything is dynamic and change is unceasing.
Posted: 1 year, 2 months ago by bluebird #1038
Reverse Engineer said "The key here is learning to live on unimproved land with temporary structures in a nomadic lifestyle."

Reminds me of various Indian tribes who lived hundreds of years ago in North America. And if I were younger, I would seriously consider it. But I am older and with family history, I probably won't live beyond 10 more years anyway. It is unfortunate that I am unable to get younger family members (or anyone) to understand our planetary/financial/food/shelter predicaments that this would be beneficial for them to begin prepping for. But they already think I am crazy at the small things I already am doing, I can't imagine what they would say if I attempted a nomadic lifestyle.
Posted: 1 year, 2 months ago by Reverse Engineer #1035
alfbell wrote:
A self-sustaining community/commune with a divergent group of good like-minded people (wide ranging skill sets); on arable land (good crop fields and some solar green houses); with a good well; adobe type homes (thick clay or straw bale walls for comfort and low energy needs in Winter and Summer) with some wood stoves also; guns and ammo; and a little C-Class RV for bugout or emergencies would be a good way to go.

Here's a concept: Buy a large tract of good land in a good location and build your adobe home. Create a bunch of sites so others can build homes there as well (could even put down concrete pads and buy repo'd mobile homes really cheap and set them up for living). Be selective and start recruiting your community by having the people you choose buy into it or rent from you. End result: a group that thrives; grows its own food, repairs it own vehicles machinery and tools, protects and defends the compound, etc.


What you describe here is something we have been discussing for quite some time on Reverse Engineering, the founding group that is responsible for the new Doomstead Diner blog/forum.

Generally speaking, putting all your eggs in one basket of a given Doomstead limits your mobility, and once you start building a whole bunch of stuff on a given plot of land you become tied to it. What happens if you say buy a nice Doomstead in Texas, but then a Border War breaks out full on with Mejico? What happens if you plop down in the mountains of Colorado but then drought or flood or Wildfires take out your Doomstead?

Cheaper raw land with no permanent structures on it distributed out in various different regions provides redundancy, as long as you have enough mobility to move from one spot to the other. The key here is learning to live on unimproved land with temporary structures in a nomadic lifestyle. Various types of good cheap shelter can be utilized from tents at the beginning to hexayurts and geodesics, along with of course the Bugout Machines for so long as you can get the gas to move them from one spot to another. Once the gas is no longer available, they stay where they lay in their Final Resting Place. Then you have secondary means of movement possible after that, Bicycles and even on Foot.

I'll be posting up tomorrow an article I wrote a while back about living Mobile utilizing commercial Storage Units and Bugoout Machines or even just your SUV on DD.

RE
www.doomsteaddiner.org
Posted: 1 year, 2 months ago by alfbell #1027
A self-sustaining community/commune with a divergent group of good like-minded people (wide ranging skill sets); on arable land (good crop fields and some solar green houses); with a good well; adobe type homes (thick clay or straw bale walls for comfort and low energy needs in Winter and Summer) with some wood stoves also; guns and ammo; and a little C-Class RV for bugout or emergencies would be a good way to go.

Here's a concept: Buy a large tract of good land in a good location and build your adobe home. Create a bunch of sites so others can build homes there as well (could even put down concrete pads and buy repo'd mobile homes really cheap and set them up for living). Be selective and start recruiting your community by having the people you choose buy into it or rent from you. End result: a group that thrives; grows its own food, repairs it own vehicles machinery and tools, protects and defends the compound, etc.
Posted: 1 year, 2 months ago by Reverse Engineer #1008
alfbell wrote:
I think a sailboat is definitely the ultimate "bugout" vehicle. It puts you in the best fabian condition and gives you a home with the most freedom from government and authorities and the best chance of survival (and no property taxes, domicile state, or way of being located)


Its not as good as it seems Alf. There are some very critical problems with the Sail Paradigm that Dmitri does not consider. Much like the Gas Powered RV, it has only a window of Utility, its not a long term solution.

I won't rewrite all the problems here but just sample a few. First off, Sailboats are very vulnerable to Piracy while at sea, and very vulnerable to theft while moored. For so long as the system as a whole holds up, here in the FSofA you are OK in a Marina, but when there is general lawlessness and mayhem going on any boat moored in any populated location is horrendously vulnerable.

Second, even on a decent size boat your storage space is very limited. You can store maybe a year's worth of well packaged freeze dried stuff, but if you do you wedge out most of your living space. I do not see such a methodology as a long term solution here, its just a Bugout method.

In many respects, despite fuel unavailability likely down the line, gas powered RVs work better if again you realize that they are not long term solutions, just Bugout means.

Long term success demands a Community, the Bugout Machine is just a means to get you temporarily OUT of a really BAD situation and hopefully into a somewhat better one. In both cases, the primary advantage is in Mobility and not putting all your eggs into one "basket" of a given location which could go south on you for many reasons.

More on this in due time over on DD.

RE
www.doomsteaddiner.org
Posted: 1 year, 2 months ago by alfbell #1007
I think a sailboat is definitely the ultimate "bugout" vehicle. It puts you in the best fabian condition and gives you a home with the most freedom from government and authorities and the best chance of survival (and no property taxes, domicile state, or way of being located).

Unfortunately for a landlubber like me, and after just reading some of Orlov's writings on the subject, there is a lot to know and a lot to do regarding this, which is a bit too intimidating for me. On second thought I don't think that I can move towards this as a solution.

(Damn! Why didn't I take sailing when I was in camp, and why didn't I spend some of my Summers learning how to boat and sail? Oh well.)

I guess I'll have to figure out how to survive and thrive on land. (I'm waiting for some genius to be able to do diesel engine conversions so they run on hydrogen or pure water. Then at least a motorhome would be a decent bugout vehicle for the future.)
Posted: 1 year, 2 months ago by Reverse Engineer #1006
el gallinazo wrote:
As with most fiberglass boats from the early 70's, they are overbuilt and have held up well.


I'd like to expand here on this point made by EG if you do go in the market for a Fiberglass boat (most of them). DON"T buy a new boat! First off because the prices are stupid but more importantly because Fiberglass comes in two Black/White incarnations, Good FG and Bad FG. You can't KNOW which it is for about 10 years or so. Bad FG will delaminate, the boat will get leaks and its basically impossible to keep up with repairing it. Good FG is basically FOREVER, at least by the measure of a Human Lifespan. A Fibeglass hull that has held its integrity for 10 or more years probably is good for 50.

In the Used Market these days, you can pick up some very nice boats built in the 70s-80s for practically a SONG. Boats that sold New for $200K in 1980's dollars can be had sometimes for under $40K, and if you shop around you find some Old Guys who took care of them so well they are better than new, and they just want to find a buyer they think will take good care of their boat. You can also find some not well maintained boats that superficially look bad, but the Hull is still first class and these you can get for $20K and under. Many also go on the Auction Block in Bankruptcies these days.

However, remember your Maintenance fees until TSHTF. Boats are a money sink extraordinaire. If you keep them in the water and don't sail them regularly, the hull gets fouled with algae and has to be regularly scrubbed. Bigger the boat is, more it costs to yank it up out of the water and do hull maintenance. If you are actually living aboard, you can take of this problem by regularly getting in the water with snorkel and fins and scrubbing a bit in the water regularly, but if you let it go too long it has to be hauled up in dry dock. Salt accretion can also cause you issues with your electrics. All things to consider before going the Seasteading route.

RE
Posted: 1 year, 2 months ago by Nassim #1005
This interesting discussion about boats was to be found deep down in the "Tsunami" thread. It has nothing to do with which boat can handle a real ocean tsunami best.

Am I the only one to miss a single discussion thread?
Posted: 1 year, 2 months ago by el gallinazo #1003
My last eight years on St. John, US Virgin Islands, I owned an 18 foot Cape Dory Typhoon Weekender, "the littlest yacht." It is a great training boat, Alberg design, if you would plan to move up to a larger classic monohull bugout, and they can be found everywhere, even lakes, in good condition cheap. As with most fiberglass boats from the early 70's, they are overbuilt and have held up well. They are trailerable, though the keel makes it trickier. Displacement is one ton and it includes a 500 lb cast iron full keel. They are too small for any sort of bugout, but as they handle like a larger vessel in many respects, a great training vessel and lots of fun if one can leave the doom at the shore for the day.

I second RE that Orlov's recommendations for a boat are excellent. He, his wife, and cat are living on their boat year round in Boston Harbor. As one might expect from Orlov, he thinks outside the box, and has executed a lot of good ideas, such as how to insulate the boat for a Boston winter without being buried in mildew. He made a lot of classic mistakes at the start of his nautical adventure, and one should search for his earlier writings on the subject as well.
Posted: 1 year, 2 months ago by Reverse Engineer #979
alfbell wrote:
Reverse: Yes, a boat could be the best bugout vehicle for survival. Never really thought about that. You've got me thinking now. (The thing about owning a home or farm is that the gubmint knows where you are and still controls you through property taxes, and who knows what other taxes they'll devise for homeowners.) A boat (like an RV) is a home that can move around (fabian) and doesn't have property taxes. Also very key... no major worries about fuel if it is a sailboat.

Unfortunately, I know nothing about sailing and have no experience (I'm a land-lubber). A decent ocean going vessel could take you along the US, Canadian, Alaskan, Mexican, Central American coastlines, down to the Caribbean, etc. There would be all sorts of small ports, marinas, coves, etc. where one could locate, hide, hunker down, etc.

If I could have a large enough freezer to keep meat and also some sort of garden (hydroponic?) on board I could go for long periods without needing to come in for supplies. Guess could have solar energy too?

I'm age 60 and in good physical shape. So is the wife. If I went to the right school or teacher... how long would it take me to learn to sail in order to operate a decent size 60-70 ft schooner, or whatever the appropriate type of boat would be for this application? I know one key thing to learn is everything about weather conditions and navigation.


Dmitri Orlov, one of the most well read of early Doomers lives on a Sailboat in Boston. He has written a decent amount about his experience with "Sailsteading". Go to Cluborlov.com and read up there to get the most positive spin on this methodology.

By NO MEANS is a 60' boat necessary or even advisable here. Boats of this size have very big and expensive sails, and until the whole biz does go to hell in a handbasket are pretty expensive to maintain at any Marina. Bigger the Boat, bigger the monthly fees. For most purposes, boats in the 35-40" range are quite livable. Then you have choices to make as far as monohulls and multihulls are concerned. Multihulls of the Catamaran variety are more spacious and roomy, and they are also faster and point up better into the wind than most monohull keelboats. However, unless you are a very competent Blue Water sailor, I would never take a multihull far off the coast. They can pitchpole or roll in really big seas, and they do not self right as a monohull does.

My choice is very small boat, a 28' Ian Farier designed floding Trimaran that is trailerable. I have no marina fees. It has very little living space, its just a Bugout Machine for me that can get me from here to Tristan da Cunha, Edinburgh of the Seven Seas (generally considered the most remote Island on Earth) if need be, though that would be one mighty scary undertaking in this craft. My intention if I ever need to use it for REAL is to coastal sail it into the fjords of British Columbia. I have a water maker, solar panels and enough Preps to make it for a year on board.

Far as how long it takes to learn to Sail, not really that long. You can take week long Vacations that will teach you the rudiments of sailing a small yacht, and pick lots of places to do that still. There are Sailing schools in the Bahamas, in the Meditarranean and in the South Pacific you can go to. Will cost you some, but not nearly what a 60' behemoth would cost.

Making big transits over Blue Water takes experience and time to gain the expertiese, but coastal sailing is not all that hard. Navigation is quite easy so long as the GPS is up and running, but when that goes off the map navigating via Sextant and Compass is quite a bit more challenging, and you gotta know your constellations, which also take time to memorize. For short coastal sailing though, Dead Reckoning keeping track of your course and over water speed works fine for the most part, and is not that hard to learn.

Dmitri is very Positive on Seasteading, but he does not cover many of the downsides that will be present in real SHTF scenarios. I try to do that with my Bugout analysis articles. Its not a perfect paradigm, but it has many good advantages to it.

If you can afford it, a good sailcraft is a good Bugout Machine. At the very least, when nobody else can leave a bad neighhborhood gone south via planes or commercial boats, you always can GTFO of Dodge, even from the Big Shities like Boston. Newfoundland is just a coastal sail away, and its not a highly populated place.

I'll try to get more about this up on DD in the next week or so. I have a lot of material I have to mave on other topics so this will take some time.

RE
www.doomsteaddiner.org
Posted: 1 year, 2 months ago by alfbell #974
Hey folks... talking about speculation as to how things will go in the future due to economic crash and America going Fascist... here is some historical data that could shed more light on the subject.

Niall Ferguson's newest book, "Civilization: The West and the Rest". He states that based on history there isn't a slow gradual decline when an empire collapses (he explains this re: Rome, Ming Dynasty, etc.). It is fast. There is an exponential climb followed by falling off a cliff. This occurs in a generation or a few decades, even one decade (witness Russia, witness Egypt, Libya, etc.). He states that those thinking they have a lot of time to prepare and get their act together might have a big surprise.

Gulp!
Posted: 1 year, 2 months ago by alfbell #973
Reverse: Yes, a boat could be the best bugout vehicle for survival. Never really thought about that. You've got me thinking now. (The thing about owning a home or farm is that the gubmint knows where you are and still controls you through property taxes, and who knows what other taxes they'll devise for homeowners.) A boat (like an RV) is a home that can move around (fabian) and doesn't have property taxes. Also very key... no major worries about fuel if it is a sailboat.

Unfortunately, I know nothing about sailing and have no experience (I'm a land-lubber). A decent ocean going vessel could take you along the US, Canadian, Alaskan, Mexican, Central American coastlines, down to the Caribbean, etc. There would be all sorts of small ports, marinas, coves, etc. where one could locate, hide, hunker down, etc.

If I could have a large enough freezer to keep meat and also some sort of garden (hydroponic?) on board I could go for long periods without needing to come in for supplies. Guess could have solar energy too?

I'm age 60 and in good physical shape. So is the wife. If I went to the right school or teacher... how long would it take me to learn to sail in order to operate a decent size 60-70 ft schooner, or whatever the appropriate type of boat would be for this application? I know one key thing to learn is everything about weather conditions and navigation.
Posted: 1 year, 2 months ago by Reverse Engineer #969
alfbell wrote:

If it wasn't for the peak oil scene and the cost of oil skyrocketing over the next few decades my solution would be a motor home (mobility, flexibility, follow economic and educational opportunities, escape catastrophes, follow the sun and warm weather, etc.)


I call RVs and Sailboats "Bugout Machines", and I have one of each I write quite often about how you plan for diferent types of Bugouts using such tools depending on circumstances. I'll probably drop one of them in as a Feature Article on the Diner in the next week or so.

Far as being intolerant of cold weather, yes lots of people are which makes it a bit easier for folks like me who cannot stand heat. Unless I am out in the Bush I don't generally go nuts suiting up unless we get the 30 below stuff. Zero is very comfortable for me in typical winter gear if I am not outside for mre than an hour or so. Full time outdoors, you gotta Suit Up.



BTW, the Iditarod got going this Weekend. I'll update you all periodically on the Last Great Race on Earth

Iditarod
..Neff leads a pack of top Iditarod racers out of the Alaska Range
Mike Campbell | Mar 05, 2012

Amid snowfall, the top dozen mushers in the Iditarod Trail Sled Dog Race yanked their snow hooks Monday afternoon and began a steep 40-mile descent to Rohn River.

Yukon Quest champion Hugh Neff was the first to leave Rainy Pass at 2:58 p.m. Within an hour, nine racers had given chase. They included:

• Ray Redington Jr. of Wasilla, the early race leader, who was 11 minutes back.

• Lance Mackey of Fairbanks, the four-time champion looking to tie aging Rick Swenson as the winningest Iditarod musher of all time.

• Aliy Zirkle of Two Rivers, the former Yukon Quest champion who's behind a powerful dog team that finished seconds behind Neff at last month's Quest.

• John Baker of Kotzebue, the defending Iditarod champion and race record holder.

• Rick Swenson of Two Rivers, the most decorated musher in Iditarod history who despite his age of 61 is hanging closer to the front that he often does.

• Jeff King of Denali Park, another four-time champion returning to the Iditarod after ending his brief retirement.

Perhaps the only surprise among the front-runners was Kelley Griffin, the 52-year-old veteran from Wasilla. Even though she's finished three Iditarods and a number of Quests, she has never contended for victory. She was the first woman to finish the Quest and the Iditarod in the same year, a feat she accomplished in 2008. Last year, she finished fifth in the Quest and 26th in the Iditarod, both personal bests.

Both Zirkle and Mackey are driving dog teams fresh off a successful 1,000-mile run in the Yukon Quest International Sled Dog Race last month. Some of the dogs in Zirkle’s team were in husband Allen Moore’s team that finished second to Hugh Neff by less than a minute in that race. Mackey finished third and proclaimed himself happy with how his crew of young dogs performed.

For many contenders, the goal of the first couple of days on the trail is to stay in contention without stressing the dog team with a maddening early pace.

“A lot of people will try to race out to the front and get to the front of the pack,” young Rohn Buser, the Kuskokwim 300 champion, said on Sunday to Iditarod Insider at the race start in Willow.

“But you've got to be careful not to go out too fast. It’s more important to set a good pace for your team, something your team can maintain. You’ve just got to keep them relaxed and don't blow them up on the first day so on Day 5 you don’t say, 'Oh man, I went down the river too fast.’”


RE
www.doomsteaddiner.org
Posted: 1 year, 2 months ago by alfbell #966
Sorry RE. You may be correct yet I can't abide cold weather. I live at 5,300 feet now in the mountains of SoCal. It is beautiful but my body type doesn't do well with cold weather and snow. Makes me very uncomfortable and irritable and non-productive. (Altho a mixture of Irish/English/Italian, my predominant body characteristic is Mediterranean type). I'm unhappy now in 20 degree weather with thermal base layers, pile and down. Couldn't imagine living in and around zero weather. Looking forward to getting back down to the flatlands and/or desert for warmer living.

I know people live longer in the cold regions. And the cold mountains have always been the place where people seem to hunker down and survive or avoid predators, attacks, etc.

If it wasn't for the peak oil scene and the cost of oil skyrocketing over the next few decades my solution would be a motor home (mobility, flexibility, follow economic and educational opportunities, escape catastrophes, follow the sun and warm weather, etc.)

If there really was a way to have an engine that ran on hydrogen/water or some other inexpensive fuel the motor home would be my survival solution.
Posted: 1 year, 2 months ago by ashvin #961
Nassim,

Here is a very interesting article in that regard:

The Last Famine

Sharman Apt Russell, in her survey of our primordial craving, Hunger: An Unnatural History, quotes a 4,000-year-old inscription on the tomb of an Egyptian noble: "All of Upper Egypt was dying of hunger to such a degree that everyone had come to eating his children." Two-thirds of Italy, she reminds us, starved to death during the black plagues of the 14th century. Five-hundred years later, a microscopic potato fungus scythed down a million Irishmen (and women and children) and sent at least a million more into famished exodus. And proving once again that we humans are perhaps the worst crop of pestilence of all, she cites the 2 million to 3 million Ukrainians methodically starved to death by Stalin's forced collectivization. A grim coda: The deadliest famine recorded -- ever -- was man-made and happened within living memory: The Great Leap Forward, Mao's rush to industrialize the countryside, killed tens of millions of Chinese between 1958 and 1962. "Hunger," Russell writes, "is as big as history."


Regarding corporatist debt slavery + growing police state:

www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/mar/02/police-privatisation-security-firms-crime

www.opednews.com/populum/linkframe.php?linkid=146528

Among the central provisions of H.R. 347 is a section that would make it a criminal offense to “enter or remain in” an area designated as “restricted.”

The bill defines the areas that qualify as “restricted” in extremely vague and broad terms. Restricted areas can include “a building or grounds where the President or other person protected by the Secret Service is or will be temporarily visiting” and “a building or grounds so restricted in conjunction with an event designated as a special event of national significance.”

The Secret Service provides bodyguards not just to the US president, but to a broad layer of top figures in the political establishment, including presidential candidates and foreign dignitaries.

Even more sinister is the provision regarding events of “national significance.” What circumstances constitute events of “national significance” is left to the unbridled discretion of the Department of Homeland Security. The occasion for virtually any large protest could be designated by the Department of Homeland Security as an event of “national significance,” making any demonstrations in the vicinity illegal.


(all of the above courtesy of VK)
Posted: 1 year, 2 months ago by Nassim #959
El G: please tell the lesson of the Kulaks in Russia.


alfbell,

I think El G is asleep. If you don't mind, I will try to answer that one.

A Kulak was essentially a person, in the Soviet Union, who grew his own food and sold the surplus in the market or to traders who took it to the cities. Some were wealthy and owned lots of land, but the vast majority were not much more than doomsteaders. Eventually, anyone who could store food was considered a Kulak.

The Russian Revolution was largely driven by the urban population. The people in the countryside were much more religious and conservative (still true today). Due to the dislocation of the Revolution and the civil war (Reds versus Whites), the people in the cities got hungry and the communists blamed it all on the Kulaks - for hoarding food. The communists raided the country-side and took everything they could find and sent the males to concentration camps in Siberia - leaving their families behind to starve. In Russia, peasants stored food for the winter underground (still true today). Tens of millions starved - Solzhenitsyn estimated 60 million. Of course, the communists claimed it was under one million. Vast areas of the most productive agricultural land of Russia, Ukraine and Belorussia were almost depopulated. The communists used the unproductive peasants - who wanted the land of the more productive ones - to help in this carnage.

Nikita_Khrushchev, the guy who negociated with Kennedy, was the Kommissar for the Ukraine. He was Ukrainian, ugly and from an impoverished urban family. He must have been responsible for perhaps 20 million deaths in Ukraine. I hope you get the drift of what El G was getting at.

Suggested reading: Gulag archipelago (by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn)

Who was it who said that
Crime and evil does not pay in the long run, eh?
?
Posted: 1 year, 2 months ago by Reverse Engineer #958
alfbell wrote:
RE: yes, I agree about friends and community added to the list of stable datums. (Might I add being in a temperate climate area... thus not needing much energy for heat or A/C, and also having the benefit of a long growing season.)


Disagreed. The problem with Temperate climates is everybody wants to live there. Besides that there are food preservation issues to deal with.

You want to be in the coldest possible climate Homo Sapiens can tolerate. Basically sub Arctic conditions. Properly insulated with clothing, you don't need Heat really down to 50 Below. Inuit have been doing this for 1000s of years. The cold climate provides you instant Food Preservation about 8 months of the year, the whole world is a Refrigerator. If you are sedentary, its also quite possible to build an Icehouse that will last all summer through to the first snowfalls.

A short growing season is compensated for by very long growing days in the Summer. Alaska farms are actually quite productive, and the peculiarities of the light distribution make it possible to grow some mammoth veggies.



Besides the veggies, there remains up here the greates fisherie still alive in the world Oceans



Finally, you just can't beat Alaska for Population Density. At 1.24 Homo Sapiens per square mile, its one of the least populated places on the face of the Earth. Only some parts of Siberia and Antarctica and various Deserts come in lower than that.

So forget the Middle Latitudes. You just gotta learn to love the cold. BE THE COLD!



RE
www.doomsteaddiner.org
Posted: 1 year, 2 months ago by alfbell #956
RE: yes, I agree about friends and community added to the list of stable datums. (Might I add being in a temperate climate area... thus not needing much energy for heat or A/C, and also having the benefit of a long growing season.)

El G: please tell the lesson of the Kulaks in Russia.

I posted my opinion earlier on this thread regarding things being upside down and backwards in our society (ie. what the status quo thinks and believes, and are programmed to think and believe, is usually the opposite of what is true) and I think this also applies to the above speculation about the Illuminati/NWO/TPTB. I believe Hollywood pushes this false notion forward by always having the villian or bad guy as the very wealthy, "together", organized individual and the hero is always an unkempt, bungling guy with marital or relationship problems, always in trouble with his boss or the authorities due to his irresponsibility, etc.

Wouldn't you say that that is again another opposite? I believe people or groups that are on an evil bent, or pushing destructive intentions and purposes forward, will always wind up derailing and crashing. The more evil one commits the more "stupid" they become. If there are indeed people who want to make debt slaves of the masses and control them via a police state, I believe they are going against humanity and its urge to survive and thrive and it can only blow up in their faces. They are on this planet too, right? What they are doing is analagous to drilling a hole in the bottom of a boat and gleefully anticipating how everyone is now going to drown. Yet, they have forgotten one very important datum... they are on the boat too!

I think the crash of the Eurozone is one of their faux pas. And they'll be many more to come as they continue to work at making a mess of everything.

Crime and evil does not pay in the long run, eh?
Posted: 1 year, 2 months ago by Reverse Engineer #952
el gallinazo wrote:
RE, would you consider the upcoming global economic collapse as a phase of the long term TPTSB strategy, or would you regard it as a very serious miscalculation? I really cannot figure that one out with any certainty, but not from lack of trying.


Always a source of endless speculation in the Conspiracy Theory crowd MIne isn't the most popular viewpoint on this question.

I believe the consequences of exponential growth have been well known by the Illuminati going well back into time, predating Malthus for sure. I also am quite sure Isaac Newton when he was Master of the Mint back in 1692 new precisely what the consequences were of the type of monetary system the BoE was engineering up. Anyhow, over the centruies here there is no doubt that the monetary system has been engineered up to keep a very small group of people in perpetual power.

The discoveries of the Enlightenment enabled the accessing of large amounts of thermodynamic energy, which thus propelled our friends the Illuminati to even higher pinnacles of power. They also however have known for a long time (going back at least to Hubbert but probably back further than that) that fossil fuel resource was limited and would eventually run out on them. So for a long time they engaged in seeking out "ultimate power" in the form of Nuclear Energy, particularly Fusion power. Billions if not Trillions have been spent over the last 40 years (that when the numers meant something before the printing spree), I was reading about coming Fusion Reactors in Popular Science when I was a boy.

Sadly here, TIMES UP, the Buzzer has gone off and Ultimate Power has not arrived here. What our Illuminati friends are doing here is rear guard action, they are trying to escape with what wealth they collected up and get out from under a collapsing Tower of Babel.

Far as a "Plan" goes, I think they think they have Plans, but for the most part I don't think those plans will work all that long. I've looked at this problem up down and sideways and once the Conduits fail in earnest you get a One to the Many devolution. The center will not hold.

Anyhow, my good friend Peter who is collaborating with me on DD doesn't agree with me on this, he is pretty sure the Illuminati have this well planned and figured all the way down the line. He makes a pretty good case for it also, and e have pursued some EXTREMELY long debates with each other on how this plays out. Eventually I'll try to get some of those debates up on DD, they are very entertaining

In any event, I definitely would not call this one a "Phase" like the Great Depression or even the French Revolution. Those events happenned on the upswing while the Illuminati were still accumulating greater power and greater wealth. Now we are on the downslope, and its all going to come apart, quite rapidly relatively speaking. I don't think the Illuminati can control the collapse, and I don't think most of what is called wealth will be worth a hill of beans here pretty soon. For Rome it came apart at the seams when the monetary system collapsed. When the money doesn't work to pay the Soldiers, you cannot Buy Loyalty anymore and the Elite are no longer Elite. That is when you will see quite a few people strung up by their Gonads with their Chestnuts Roasting over an Open Fire.

RE
www.doomsteaddiner.org
Posted: 1 year, 2 months ago by el gallinazo #950
RE - I bookmarked your link and will take it around the block when I have time. Thanks.

The United States is in very rapid transition from soft to hard fascism. Though Stalin's Soviet Union was not technically fascist due to a lack of corporate superstructure, it certainly was totalitarian, and most lessons between the two are interchangeable. Probably the greatest threat to survival via doomstead preparation is the lesson of the Kulaks in Russia and Ukraine (formerly the Ukraine) One reason that you cannot divorce a survival strategy from a political, big picture understanding.

RE, would you consider the upcoming global economic collapse as a phase of the long term TPTSB strategy, or would you regard it as a very serious miscalculation? I really cannot figure that one out with any certainty, but not from lack of trying. The possible dissolution of the EU would be strong evidence for the latter opinion, as Master of the Universe David Rockefeller has made it quite clear that the consolidation of pseudo sovereign government into a small global number, perhaps four, is a necessary stepping stone to a one world government run by enlightened, technocratic bankers. The recent installation of this system into Greece and Italy certainly indicates a pathway for this possible game plan. Eventually, of course, they will have to use NATO thugs to reinforce it against populist revolution. The upcoming chaos in Europe may very well lead to the consolidation of power in classical Naomi Klein fashion - total jackbooted state. OTOH, they may have truly miscalculated and their plans may fall apart, even in the short term, through centrifugal forces, even prior to PO kicking in hard.
Posted: 1 year, 2 months ago by bluebird #903
Reverse Engineer said "Part of Prepping Up is being aware of the possible ways the system might be manipulated or morphed here."

Indeed. No one knows exactly how anything will be occurring. So I've been trying to do a bit of prepping in several areas, and hope for the best.

But to remind everyone, Nature will always bat last. My daughter and family recently survived a tornado in SW Ohio. Luckily, she and her husband and pets are fine, her house is fine, but the tornado flattened her barn and everything in it...generator, lawnmower, tools, etc. She is on the third day without electric as the tornado took out all the poles and wires in her area. Definitely many lessons to be learned.
Posted: 1 year, 2 months ago by Reverse Engineer #888
alfbell wrote:
Prediction and supposition are a waste of time. No one knows what is going to happen and when it is going to happen.

Gold, silver, digital money, new currency, cell phones and on and on and on. What a bunch of drivel.

Real wealth is water, food, shelter, clothing, tools, energy and land. That is all there is to it. This is the common denominator... the basic datum. Figure out your strategy based on this basic datum.


You forget Friends and Community in your list of Basic Datum as far as tallying up your real wealth is concerned.

I disagree however that specualting on how the collapse will play itself out on the monetary end is either "drivel" or a "waste of time". The fact is, that for a while at least the monetary system will remain the main method people have for acquiring water, food, shelter et al. Part of Prepping Up is being aware of the possible ways the system might be manipulated or morphed here. Too many people labor under the false assumption that having a pile of Gold in the Basement Safe or a mattress stuffed full of FRNs will provide a measure of monetary security. Other people labor under the false assumption that by living on a subsistence farm (aka "doomstead") they will be able to both produce a perpetual food supply and protect and defend it from both the State and from destitute people (aka "zombies").

In actuality, for the most part you are going to have to find means and methods of surviving inside what looks to be evovlving as an increasingly Fascist State here on the NA continent, thus the reason I label it the "FSofA", or Fascist States of Amerika.

RE
www.doomsteaddiner.org









 

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