By A Web Design

You're Dreaming If You Think The Euro Crisis Is Resolved





The German edition of Der Spiegel opens the new week on Monday morning with a series of articles on the European situation, which make clear, as if that were still necessary, that Europe is still an absolute mess. You know, just in case you thought it was not. That Mario Draghi's latest unlimited whatever it is had somehow chased away the demons.

First, Der Spiegel writes that the Greek deficit is twice as high as previously thought,, at €20 billion, according to a preliminary version of the long awaited troika report. The gap has to be closed for the next tranche of bailout money to be paid.

Second, eurozone countries plan to let the ESM balloon to over €2 trillion ($2.6 trillion) . Remember that the German Constitutional Court limited Berlin's part to about €119 billion recently. Creative accounting to infinity and beyond. The efforts to keep the union together will blow it apart.

Third, former German FInance Minister Steinbrueck works on a banking plan that would split up investment and retail activities for Germany's banks (including Deutsche), think Glass Steagall. He wants to ban commodities speculation. And he wants a bank-ESM, a fund paid for by banks that can be used to bail them out, rather than taxpayer money.

There's lot more going on, and going wrong, in Europe, no matter what Draghi does, and no matter what plans José Manuel Barroso unveils. When I saw that the latter was seriously talking about establishing a European army, I couldn't help thinking: will it bring all those translators to the battlefield too?

Europe is not a country, it is not a culture, and it is not a language. It is a loose union that consists of many of each. Europe can hold together in times of plenty, and it will fall apart in meagre times. The only thing Europeans have power over - to a degree - is how the process of unravelling will unfold; they can't stop the process. The present attempts to hold the union together at all costs will be extremely costly, they have zero chance of succeeding, and they will lead to violence. The alternative, an attempt to live together as good and peaceful neighbors outside of a currency union, is not even considered. And I'm pretty sure it won't be until it's too late.

Hedge fund king Ray Dalio last week expressed the same fears I have been hammering on for months now, see for instance Project Europe is Over, Dear Angela, It's Time To Do The Right Thing and A Big Bad Brick Wall. I will always be reluctant to evoke Hitler's name, because it will inevitably be interpreted by many people as over the top fear-mongering, and because of the WWII survivor stories I grew up with, but the principle remains the same. A few weeks ago, I finally did resort to using the name, for the simple reason that in my view the threat in Europe is growing by the day:


What Makes Mario Draghi So Dangerous For Europe

Europe is creating conditions - of misery, poverty and hopelessness - in a number of its member states [..], that are not unlike those that provided the space needed by the likes of Hitler and Mussolini to rise to power in the 1920s and '30s. And that is a grave danger.


Now, Dalio says this:


RAY DALIO: I don't know whether we're beyond the point of being able to successfully manage this. And I worry then about—social disruption. I worry about—another leg down in the economies—causing—social disruptions. Because deleveraging—can be very painful, it depends how they're managed.

But when people—get at each other's throat, the rich and the poor and the left and the right and so on, and you have a basic breakdown,that becomes very threatening. And for example, Hitler came to power in 1933, which was the depth of the Great Depression because of the social tension between the factions. So I think it very much is dependent on how the people work this through together and worry about the social elements.


I can only hope that more people wake up to this, and that the people who lead the continent into these dangers will be relieved from their positions before they can do more harm. Hey, I can hope...

Still: "How the people work this through together"? They obviously don't. It's one-way traffic all the way. Conditions and demands are imposed upon people who have no say in how their politicians, elected or not, react to them. It's the bullies vs the bullied, working all the way down the chain of command.. The troika bullies Spanish PM Rajoy, and he turns around and tries to bully Artur Mas, the President of Catalunya.

And as long as the IMF is allowed a seat at the various tables from which it can demand and impose, that is not going to change. The Fund's "reform" demands, based on Milton Friedman's Chicago School shock capitalism, tried, tested, and fine-tuned in South America, Asia and Eastern Europe, are still the sole religious mantra. These days, that is true for the EU as much as for the IMF, as I documented in Hungary Says The IMF And EU Want To Make It A Colony Of Slaves.

Is this because nothing has been learned from past failure doctrine disasters? No, on the contrary, it's because the approach has been so spectacularly successful for the IMF's main donors and puppetmasters. What have been calamities for the people of the countries concerned have also been both the sparkplugs and the fuel for the engine of increasing political power the puppeteers have obtained through the IMF. And this time around they're set on doing themselves one better. This time they are aiming to buy up the Acropolis and the Coliseum.

And it's really simple from thereon in. It makes no difference whether you call it shock doctrine or 21st century imperialism or hostile takeovers, you can't take away from the people of Greece, Italy and Spain all the monuments of their past, as well as all powers they have over their own economies, production facilities and agriculture, and expect them to take that lying down. Not going to happen.

That's what makes the situation in Europe so dangerously volatile today. And it will all spread further too. We will end up with large parts of Europe being de facto owned by international conglomerates, who will use this ownership to drive up prices for essential services, food, electricity, water, housing etc. While at the same time IMF-style "reforms" will drive wages down.

The politico-banking class are all sitting there smugly and comfy in their bought-on-someone-else's-credit plush offices, picking through the still rich and splendid spoils of once proud nations and fiercely independent peoples. And even if they do win some of the preliminary battles at the negotiating table, the real ones can be won only through the use of violence.

There isn't much time left until that becomes a realistic threat, which means that now is the time for the people of Europe to decide whether they want to go down that road or not. And if they don't, they need to draw conclusions and accept the potential consequences of that decision: Get up, Stand up. And no, I don't have a lot of faith that they will. But I do hope that more people will now start to clue in on what that means: yes, violence.

Czech President Václav Klaus gives his view in the Telegraph this weekend. Klaus is not my favorite person, he's certainly no Václav Havel, but he provides a few good insights here.


Václav Klaus warns that the destruction of Europe's democracy may be in its final phase

The new push for a European Union federation, complete with its own head of state and army, is the "final phase" of the destruction of democracy and the nation state, the president of the Czech Republic has warned.

In an interview with The Sunday Telegraph, Václav Klaus warns that "two-faced" politicians, including the Conservatives, have opened the door to an EU superstate by giving up on democracy, in a flight from accountability and responsibility to their voters. "We need to think about how to restore our statehood and our sovereignty. That is impossible in a federation. The EU should move in an opposite direction," he said.

Last week, Germany, France and nine other of Europe's largest countries called for an end to national vetoes over defence policy as Guido Westerwelle, the German foreign minister, urged the creation of a directly elected EU president "who personally appoints the members of his European government".

Mr Westerwelle, in a reference to British opposition, called for nation states to be stripped of vetoes on defence to "prevent one single member state from being able to obstruct initiatives" which "could eventually involve a European army".

The new offensive followed the unprecedented declaration by the Commission's president, José Manuel Barroso, during his "state of union" address to the European Parliament on 12 September, that he would make proposals for a fully-fledged EU "federation" in 2014. "Let's not be afraid of the word," he said.


[..] Mr Klaus described Mr Barroso's call for a federation, quickly followed by the German-led intervention, as an important turning point.

"This is the first time he has acknowledged the real ambitions of today's protagonists of a further deepening of European integration. Until today, people, like Mr Barroso, held these ambitions in secret from the European public," he said. "I'm afraid that Barroso has the feeling that the time is right to announce such an absolutely wrong development. "They think they are finalising the concept of Europe, but in my understanding they are destroying it." [..]

"When it comes to the political elites at the top of the countries, it is true, I am isolated," he said. "Especially after our Communist experience, we know, very strongly and possibly more than people in Western Europe, that the process of democracy is more important than the outcome". [..]

In his book, Europe: The Shattering of Illusions, to be published by Bloomsbury on Thursday, Mr Klaus makes the case that the EU has evolved into its current form because political leaders have found it convenient to turn away from their nation states, where voters have historically been able to hold them to account.

"Political elites have always known that the shift in decision-making from the national to the supranational level weakens the traditional democratic mechanisms (that are inseparable from the existence of the nation state), and this increases their power in a radical way. That is why they wanted this shift so badly in the past, and that is why they want it today," he writes.

"The authors of the concept of European integration managed to short circuit the minds of the people, making a link between Hitler's aggressive nationalism (nationalism of a totally negative type) and the traditional nation state, calling into question the existence of nation states in general. Of the many fatal mistakes and lies that have always underpinned the evolution of the EU, this is one of the worst."


Mr. Klaus has kept his country out of the eurozone, a wise decision, since the Czech Republic was in no better position than Greece was when it joined the euro, and might well have ended up where Greece presently is.

The peaceful split between the Czech and Slovak parts of Czechoslovakia in 1994 will probably be talked about a lot in the coming years, if only because it went directly against he trend of unification. Had similar wisdom been used in Yugoslavia, we might have been spared a lot of violence. When there no longer is an economic reason for regions to stay together that have their own culture, history and language, then these regions will split up. That is not a disaster. Big is not better.

There were a million and a half people in the streets of Barcelona to celebrate Diada, the national holiday of Catalunya (I like their spelling so much better...) the other day. For the Catalans, independence is a done deal, it's just matter of time. They're on their way there, and they intend to continue on that way. Spain's refusal to let Catalunya control its own taxes, as well as a verdict by the Madrid Constitutional Court against a plan accepted by its own parliament to give regions more self-control sealed the deal.

The government in Madrid, however, calls the plan "illegal, unthinkable, lethal". The Spanish army is threatening to "crush the vultures". That sounds a lot more like Yugoslavia than like Czechoslovakia.

But it is the inevitable future of Europe. If and when Catalunya secedes, the Spanish Basque region will soon follow. The French Pays Basque will insist on joining it. Scotland? Wales, anyone? There will be many regions in many countries that will resist central governments increasingly feeding, like Rome did when its wealth was running out, on their peripheries.

People with distinct cultures, histories and languages will feel that they are better off governing themselves. And in many cases they will be right. They will realize that times will be economically much harder no matter what they do, so they might as well do it alone.

What Europe should be doing is recognizing these situations early, and facilitating cries for independence where these cries are loud and clear. It does no such thing. Europe's leaders want to intensify the union, not allow it to break up.

But Catalan polls show a majority of the people are for independence. And there is a UN charter that guarantees a people the right of self-determination. Still, the Spanish army vows to crush the vultures. Europe had better come to its senses fast.

The fate of the continent and its people is presently in the hands of a group of bankers, technocrats and delusional politicians. That fate needs to be clawed out of those white-knuckled fingers, and fast, or we will see a lot of blood in the streets.


UPDATE September 25: One day after I wrote the above, Ambrose Evans-Pritchard comes with Be Very Careful, Beloved Spain , in which he outlines the same danger I did, with the Spanish army threatening the Catalans. He ends with:


"People sometimes ask when I became a pessimist. The answer is the summer of 1991 when I accompanied Serb troops into the Baroque city of Vukovar – shattered by howitzer shelling within a comfortable drive from Vienna, and strewn with the bodies of dead children – and watched 300 wounded prisoners taken from hospital. I assumed they were at last safe. We learned later that they were machine-gunned shortly afterwards at a collective farm nearby.

The unthinkable was happening before my eyes, though it was small in scale compared to the slaughter of 8,000 Bosnian Muslim men and boys at Srebrenica, which I later covered at a trial in The Hague.

When things go wrong, they really go wrong. Cuidado, Querida España."


I think we all need to be very careful, not just the Spanish and the Catalans.


And Nigel Farage:

“What is really happening here is the eurozone crisis is so serious, and so dire, public opinion across Europe is turning so quickly in every country against the project, that what they are trying to do is seal and complete the project before everybody really wakes up to what’s being done in their name.”

“That’s what they are about. We are now entering the end game in what has been a 50 year political project. This is all going to come to a very dramatic head over the course of the next two years....

The end game for them is to effectively abolish the nation states of Europe, to completely abolish any concept of national democracy, and to vest all power, all the attributes we associate with normal countries, that is all to be vested in this new European political class.


Photo: Christophe Moustier 2006: Detail of bronze door of the Sagrada Família, Barcelona, Catalunya


 

Posted: 7 months, 3 weeks ago by Professorlocknload #5510
An enemy of the state, eh? Ha! ANYONE or ANY organization that disagrees with authority is, by default, it's enemy. Maybe good to "Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer," about now?

“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.”- Voltaire

The Rain in Spain. The pensions that never were, never will be. Before 3 billion in reserves are tapped, they must first be created in an accounting trick. Unfunded liabilities are assets too?

Cute, they use "borrow" (from the future) as a way of pushing this bait and switch out into the ether. Condensed, all they are saying is, "We are now going to cancel your pensions," same result, different sales pitch. "Now", begets despair, "Future" buys time to hope, pacifying.

The end game? My "guess" is, power wins, until it becomes so mindless it steps in front of a cross town bus, along with the hollow promises it rode in on. I hope I'm sitting in the front row on that ride!


Again; "Sooner" is gone. "Later," it is.

"There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved." Mises

Such a simple concept. Maybe if it could be jazzed up some way by an intricately complex set of chemical and algebraic formulas, more would pay attention to it?
Posted: 7 months, 3 weeks ago by jal #5509
shhhh!
It's siesta time in Spain.

www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-09-27/spain-promises-much-does-little-and-will-tap-social-security-reserves-funding

Lots of headlines but little action. Germany will not be pleased:
SAENZ SAYS SPAIN PLANS 43 NEW LAWS TO BOLSTER ECONOMY
SAENZ SAYS REFORM PLAN IS TO MEET PLEDGES TO EU PARTNERS
SPAIN APPROVES DECREE ON WAGE BARGAINING
SPAIN APPROVES INCENTIVES FOR ENERGY EFFICIENT VEHICLES: The SEAT VOLT is coming to Ibiza!
SAENZ SAYS SPAIN TO PAY EU1,000 SUBSIDY PER EFFICIENT VEHICLE
The kickers:
SPANISH BUDGET BASED ON UNCHANGED ECONOMIC FORECASTS, SEES GDP DOWN 0.5%
In other words everything will be massively wrong for the country with the epic bank run. And the one the people have been waiting for:
SPAIN TO TAP €3 BILLION FROM SOCIAL SECURITY RESERVES IN ORDER TO FUND LIQUIDITY NEEDS.
Incidentally this is the same fund which has 9 months of pension reserves and is invested in... drumroll... Spanish Bonds!
And cue to the riotcam.
Posted: 7 months, 3 weeks ago by ilargi #5507
US brands Assange an 'enemy of the state' - just like al-Quaeda


Even paranoids have enemies - and it seems that Julian Assange may have strong grounds after all for believing he'll be mistreated or even killed if he's extradited to the US.

Declassified Air Force documents show that the US military has designated him as an enemy of the state, putting him in the same legal category as members of al-Qaeda and the Taliban.

The documents even suggest that military staff who contact Wikileaks could also face the death penalty.

They relate to an investigation of a US Air Force analyst, who was based in the UK at the time, and who attended Assange's court hearings. They describe her meetings with pro-WikiLeaks activists in London as 'communicating with the enemy', an offense which can carry the death penalty.

"The term 'Communicating with the Enemy' would appear to show that the US government term Mr Assange and WikiLeaks the 'enemy'. By deeming them the 'enemy', they can be treated under the laws of war which could include killing, capturing, detaining without trial etc," says Wikileaks.

There's some ambiguity, in that it's possible that the military doesn't in fact regard Assange and Wikileaks as the enemy, but merely as a conduit.

But, says Wikileaks, "This too opens up an array of possible attacks on WikiLeaks by the US government and means that all media organizations now risk having suspected sources being executed because communicating with media would mean communicating with the public, which is communicating with the enemy in this interpretation."

Yesterday, Assange spoke to the UN via a satellite link from the Ecuadorian embassy in London where he's currently holed up. He called on the US to call a halt to its 'persecution' of WikiLeaks and its sources.
Posted: 7 months, 3 weeks ago by Professorlocknload #5506
Dave, some good points there. Hunger can be a strong motivator, of both hostility toward those who brought it on, as well as submission to those who promise to relieve it. (One in the same, sometimes?)


Ilargi, that all authority has first and foremost it's own best interests at heart is a given. Petitioning the beast, which has now escaped it's cage, to do more, is not prudent. And trying to enlighten the believers in the Cargo Cult of entitlements to eternity at the expense of others, can be a fools errand, as the messenger is usually dissed. As I may have mentioned in the past, maybe not here, when an entity reaches critical mass and controls the money, courts, jails, media and military, it trades consent for corruption (absolute power). The governed take second fiddle.

Believing we can, at this point, given the momentum of tyrannical trajectory, turn this thing around, is probably futile. The ballot box won't work because the array of candidates is stacked. The Legislative "Community" has established safeguards for itself through NDAA, DHS and such. Guns could stir it up, but would also put Leviathan on the defensive even more.

Who would have stood in front of Mao's long march? The Mechanized US military column into Baghdad? Or even the storming of the Bastille, as a reach? OK, for the fringe, who wants to be Randy Weaver?

My attraction to this site is the "Live to fight another day" aspect. Though, I don't think the guy who builds a bunker and fills it full of preps is going to make it through this unless he first gets a firm grip on his ability to keep his head in alignment with the what is, not the what if. Hell, the time may arrive when he must abandon all he has built and stored, and leave Dodge...with nothing but the space between his ears to rely on.

Fear is the antithesis of productive thought process. It distorts perception as central banking distorts markets. It should be countered with thoughts like "got lemons, get out the juicer" not "woe is me, head for the bunker."

Is community organization really an answer? My experience with HOA's, PTA's, Business Associations, City Councils, is all tend to become many wolves and a few sheep voting on what's for dinner. Not to mention those glorious "communes" of the 60's, not a one of which is around today.

Now, I'm a "political atheist," so don't take this out of context, but the Dear Leader of the most powerful government on earth is a "Community Organizer" empowered with an arsenal of DEA agents and Drones, directed at those who are not team players.


What if an arrogant egotistical unelected anointed bureaucrat decides to trash the medium of exchange in an attempt to concentrate all markers of wealth into the hands of his "community."


What if a Spaniard is killed by a "Police Community" bullet?

What if an American Ambassador is killed by a "Religious Community" in Libya?

These are significant events,maybe life changing, but we can't know in what way.

Not enough space here for all the possibilities, so I'll just sit tight and wait and watch until they hit the county line, to formulate a near term plan. Might obtain a sloop and head west, or stay around and buy C-Rats from the troops and sell them to the citizens, when the public trough runs dry. Must be a reason huge alternative markets develop around military installations. Got to be a pony in here somewhere.

mattmclean.blogspot.com/2008/04/there-must-be-pony-in-here-somewhere.html


Next? Hopefully, as Ilargi says, some ideas we can use.
Posted: 7 months, 3 weeks ago by Glennda #5505
I also like charts. Excellent chart. Notice that the fluctuation from 1990 to 2007 is pretty small; now we have some huge fluxes.

Dave... said
"I found an intriguing study that suggested a linkage between high food prices and civil unrest in the MENA area. They had a chart I was particularly enamored of...naturally. Here is a link to the study, updated as of September 2012.

necsi.edu/research/social/foodprices/briefing/ "

I think Spain is our next 'fire in globe". Volatile there.

I've recently found an interesting site that carries news on Occupy in different countries.

roarmag.org/

I may post something from an article from that site as time permits.
Posted: 7 months, 3 weeks ago by skipbreakfast #5504
ilargi wrote:
Skip et al

I think we need to consider much, nay MUCH, more seriously that Bernanke is not trying to fix the economy. That that's nothing but a very persuasive fairy tale. The QEs and other bailouts are ways to minimize losses for banks and their shareholders, at the expense of the man in the street. They are mass wealth transfers.


You are 100% absolutely correct.

It's a fact I've come to realize but the QE propaganda machine is so effective, I atually find myself slipping into discussions about how QE "won't fix the economy". Of course it won't! It's not even designed to!

I agree: Bernanke can't publicly tell us he is delivering more QE because of the specter of deflation--even though that is the real reason for it! Instead, he has to give us a smoke-and-mirrors excuse for QE3 implying that it has something to do with creating more jobs.

Quite a subtle and devious tactic. You say you'll buy mortgage backed securities through QE3 until job numbers reach some magic level. It implies that there is some obvious, causal connection between mortgage backed security purchases and job creation. He could just as easily have said, "We will buy mortgage backed securities until the polar ice cap increases 15%." Not related. And probably not going to happen in any event.

Buying MBS is designed to backstop the banks because Bernanke sees an imminent deflation. He knows something the public doesn't realize, and he will not say it for fear of making it worse (and he's undoubtedly afraid it makes the Fed look like a fool, since the Fed has been so cavalier about its omnipotent powers to stop deflation).

The bull about job creation is just obfuscation. Its a way to sell more bank bailouts to the people. It's very effective propaganda. Terribly ineffective job creation.
Posted: 7 months, 3 weeks ago by davefairtex #5503
Ilargi -

As for graphs on civil unrest: don't count on it. It must be a year or so since I first said the only thing that's certain is chaos, and I think that still stands upright very much. And chaos in graphs doesn't work very well. Unless your samples are huge, like in the Hadron Collider or something, but that doesn't tell you anything about what will happen if and when the first Spanish demonstrator is killed by a police bullet.

I found an intriguing study that suggested a linkage between high food prices and civil unrest in the MENA area. They had a chart I was particularly enamored of...naturally. Here is a link to the study, updated as of September 2012.

necsi.edu/research/social/foodprices/briefing/

Combining this concept and focusing on the nations whose populations spend a relatively larger proportion of their household budgets on food (i.e. the poor ones) and then sort by unemployment rate and it might actually end up being predictive.

I think its quite possible that "random" yet significant acts really aren't random at all. People get shot all the time, apparently at random. But why is it sometimes the whole society decides to rise up in response to one particular guy being shot in one particular place?

I'm asserting that the whole society doesn't suddenly become unhappy just because something bad happens to one guy - the one guy provides a catalyst for an already-unhappy society to decide they've had enough.

Detecting that high level of latent societal unhappiness should be visible in charts. It may be that some societies avoided revolution because no catalyst occurred, but I think it would be interesting to check back through recent history and see if we can plot revolutions vs food difficulties.

It is said that every society is nine missed meals away from complete chaos. I can relate to that. After missing 9 straight meals during my desert survival class, I was plenty cranky...and I still had a surprising amount of energy to do something about it, too.
Posted: 7 months, 3 weeks ago by ilargi #5502
Skip et al

I think we need to consider much, nay MUCH, more seriously that Bernanke is not trying to fix the economy. That that's nothing but a very persuasive fairy tale. The QEs and other bailouts are ways to minimize losses for banks and their shareholders, at the expense of the man in the street. They are mass wealth transfers. And they have been very successful to date. What's even more successful is the propaganda machine that ensures very few people to this day question the very fact that QEs are meant to strengthen the economy of the little man, whereas they do the exact opposite. We can't continue to talk about failed bailouts, we must consider alternative viewpoints. From which they're anything but failures.

As for graphs on civil unrest: don't count on it. It must be a year or so since I first said the only thing that's certain is chaos, and I think that still stands upright very much. And chaos in graphs doesn't work very well. Unless your samples are huge, like in the Hadron Collider or something, but that doesn't tell you anything about what will happen if and when the first Spanish demonstrator is killed by a police bullet.
Posted: 7 months, 4 weeks ago by SteveB #5500
davefairtex wrote:
I agree with the professor that civil unrest, increasing euroskepticism, the threat of civil war, and possible military coups are an increasing danger as time passes, and having a chart for the forces that act to bring such things about might prove interesting.


What I'm interested in is why such behaviors arise and why we seem to know they will and still don't know what to do about it.

For the first, is it because people see no viable alternative?

For the latter, is it because we limit our thinking?
Posted: 7 months, 4 weeks ago by davefairtex #5498
professor -

The "resistance" and "support" levels in charts are all about fear and greed - in fact most of chart art (which I believe at varying degrees of enthusiasm) is basically all about people's desire to either get in, or get out, at a given price point. Resistance points are generally about a bunch of people who have been holding on (at a loss) getting back to break-even, and feeling that desire to bail out without loss. Likewise support is about people who missed a good entry point before and are now seeing it come around again having vowed they'd buy "if that price ever got back to X again." All these things are innately human reactions - fear of loss, or of missing out - and if you can read the charts, you can see them in action. They don't always work, like anything I suppose, but it can tilt the odds a bit in your favor now and then. The tendency of things to move in cycles can also be seen on a chart too, sometimes at least.

If you have any suggestions on how to chart sentiment of the players in the game, crowd perceptions, etc, and you have sources for said data, just post your thoughts and I'll run off and see what I can come up with. Even if I have to hand-enter the information, I'm game if the prize is potentially worthwhile. Although if its a time series already in FRED, that's always nice.

Right now I'm musing on FPO's "food price index" and how to merge that with household food expense percentages and unemployment rates to see where the touchpoints might be. Usually my problem is lack of meaningful data though, not lack of ideas to play with.

fpi.png
Posted: 7 months, 4 weeks ago by Professorlocknload #5497
Dave, from a fundamentalist investor, to a chart guy, thanks for the clarification. I use charts, as well, to fix benchmarks, and spot trends, in more stable environments than this one. I just don't go off into Elliot Wave type concepts and heads and shoulders and such. I am much more interested in the human action/reaction elements of economic processes. Greed, fear, confidence, complacency, apathy, that sort of thing. Hence my interest in some way to chart the sentiments of the players in the game, as well as crowd perceptions of, and reactions to, geopolitics among national populations. Demographics is also fascinating, and here, charting is very helpful.
Posted: 7 months, 4 weeks ago by davefairtex #5496
professor, skip -

Charts are really not about showing us the future (at least not to my mind anyway) they simply show us the range things have been in during the past, as well as the current trend.

"Well first things got THIS bad, and then something changed, and then they got THIS good...and now they're ticking along in this particular direction, and have been for this amount of time..."

It is also interesting to me when the charts show us when things are worse now than they have been before - like right before Draghi's "I'll do anything" speech.

So how much higher could gold get, theoretically? Higher, I think, maybe by a factor of four or so, all else remaining generally equal.

And it could go a whole lot lower too, of course. But its the range that is interesting to me. Range, and the current trend.

Last point about charts. I've been thinking about how to come up with some sort of unrest indicator. Perhaps a news scanner, or something based on unemployment, social spending, and the level of support for the eurozone in country. I agree with the professor that civil unrest, increasing euroskepticism, the threat of civil war, and possible military coups are an increasing danger as time passes, and having a chart for the forces that act to bring such things about might prove interesting. It is foolish to imagine that any chart could actually predict such things of course, but seeing if things are getting better or worse and by how much might prove enlightening. But clearly I'm a chart guy, and so I'm predisposed to think that way.

Synchro -

I think the Fed does have political limits on money printing, in spite of what we hear now from their current policy. If commodity inflation picks up (housing certainly won't) the Fed may well be thrown under the bus by politicians eager to blame some organization other than themselves for the consumer's higher prices for stuff.

To me, the true test will occur when the eurozone gets resolved one way or the other. Then we will see how the US deficit and bond issues will get resolved - i.e. without the benefit of safe haven flows boosting treasury sales.
Posted: 7 months, 4 weeks ago by skipbreakfast #5495
You have a point Synchro. I think a fact to keep in mind, which actually agrees with your point, is that the governments of the world have been using growing credit to backstop a lack of real productive growth in the western world for longer than 25 years. We've used up our time and all the credit dollars already, if you believe, as I do, that eventually markets and politics reject unfounded credit creation by a government.

So the call right now is not so much about which month or even year such a credit expansion inevitably unwinds, but that there are terribly ominous signs that the expansion is on its last legs. This isn't a vacuous timing call. This is an analysis of the facts as they currently stand. Things are unstable. Things have been unstable for a while now. Bernanke and others said such calls, like TAE's, were unfounded...BEFORE 2008.

The fact that a "deflationary crisis" happened in 2008 was our wake up call. It was deflationary because money froze and became illiquid in the system. Something was and is now broken. It's not been fixed. Quantitative easing does not FIX an economy that hasn't been truthfully productive (i.e., earning its keep in terms of real wealth creation) for decades. QE is a desperate attempt to prepare the banks for a worsening deflation. But as far as fixing the economy goes, it won't work. More and more QE has less and less impact on the economy. Because the markets HAVE woken up already and they're telling us we're living beyond our means. That's what has given us the crisis. And it's getting worse. This is deflationary.

The call is that credit creation will actually break down further long before it gets better.

Given how much credit has already been created to date, and yet we're in even more trouble anyway, it is less than likely--more like impossible--for wanton credit creation by the Fed to last ANOTHER 22 years. They're struggling to convince us that the past four years have been worth it. How much longer will we, the voters, not to mention the stock and bond markets, believe it? I don't believe any economy can create unfounded credit for 100 years. We have pretty much used up our allotted 22 though (I'm using that number because you use it in your comment).

Philosophically speaking, nothing is certain. But risk is terribly pervasive right now, and it's bigger than we've seen it in our lifetimes. Do with that what you will. Usually when you're in mid-air over a 200 meter drop, you hit the ground and die.

The latest evidence that risk is pervasive? QE3. That wouldn't have happened if Bernanke didn't have a terrible feeling in his stomach about DEFLATION. By the way his terrible feeling is based on oodles of data you and I aren't even privy to. He's told us what he sees in the data. That's why he gave us QE Infinity. That should be a sign to run and hide, not play the markets right now.
Posted: 7 months, 4 weeks ago by Synchro #5494
skipbreakfast wrote:


Deflationists see a limit on the ability of a government to manipulate a market. Historically, manipulation has NEVER worked indefinitely.


No, nothing works indefinitely.

But, 22 years = 1 generation.

It could work for longer than your or my lifetimes.

Or your children's or my children's lifetimes.


As the famous saying goes:

"The markets can remain irrational,
much longer than you can remain solvent."

But, then again, we're not supposed to talk about timing here, right?
Posted: 7 months, 4 weeks ago by Professorlocknload #5493
Regarding using past performance to chart, er, the uncharted waters of unfolding economic crisis, has anyone managed to compile a chart of incidence of civil unrest, such as going on in world wide cities now? (Madrid?) The true "stress test," IMHO.

And if so, would we suppose past performance is indicative in the formation of future expectations? Just a thought.

Is it possible, some things are very difficult to quantify?

Could statistics really be misleading, 46% of the time?

Or, does human action ultimately trump, and confound them, in the random walk of things?

What did the chartists and technical analysts say back in the late 20's?

“There may be a recession in stock prices, but not anything in the nature of a crash.”
- Irving Fisher, leading U.S. economist , New York Times, Sept. 5, 1929

myinvestorsplace.com/2009/05/10/great-depression-1929-quotes-statements/
Posted: 7 months, 4 weeks ago by skipbreakfast #5492
bluebird wrote:
Yeh, maybe it's time to stop accessing banks/credit unions before Internet banking is denied. When the tipping point is reached that throws the world into a financial crisis, does anyone else think access to banks will suddenly stop the auto-deposits and auto-payments? Or will banking gradually be eliminated?


Thanks bluebird. I find these conversations more interesting than gold (buy into the gold bubble if you feel like gambling or hedging and take your chances--what's more to be said?).

I think you're saying we shouldn't rely on digital money and I think you're right. Cash--the fold-able kind, not the digital kind--is important.

As for banking, there's a good chance that electronic banking lasts longer than any sort of cash banking. Which is NOT to say that digital banking lasts longer than fold-able cash in the economy--just that the banks will stop giving out fold-able cash at the tills and ATMs, while they continue to encourage the digital kind. (I'm not predicting as far as a day WITHOUT computers--that's probably coming, but it's much further off than our financial collapse).

I foresee a terrible shortage of actual hard printed currency (the fold-able kind as it has been called). The digital kind, such as the Fed is creating right now, will be more plentiful than the fold-able kind for a long while yet, even as the digital kind is erased faster and faster over time.

There is a reasonable argument to be made that fold-able currency may offer a premium over digital money. So a real paper dollar is worth say twice as much as a digital dollar. In some ways it always has been, which is why trades-people will offer to do the job for a lower price if you pay cash. Those hard dollars are worth more to him than the digital dollars.

Definitely, there will be capital controls coming which try to impede our use of fold-able currency. As tax revenues drop off a cliff, and more of the economy is driven underground, fold-able cash will be something everyone will want. Digital cash will serve the system for as long as the system can make it last.

So I think you'll still be able to buy things with digital currency. There may be a few zeroes taken off your bank balance of digital currency in the meantime, though. That $100,000 balance could easily become $1000. You'll still be able to shop with that $1000, in my opinion. You'll just be much poorer than the person who somehow turned that $100,000 into dollar bills you can hold in your hand.
Posted: 7 months, 4 weeks ago by skipbreakfast #5491
davefairtex wrote:
Skip -

Gold is most definitely looking expensive from the standpoint of your chart right now. But check out this chart:

TCMDO-GOLD.png


This odd chart is the US total credit market debt owed divided by the price of gold. With a bit of (hopefully forgivable) hand-waving, we could approximate this to be the following:
TCMDO - claims on real wealth (Billions of $ US; as of apr-2012=$55T)
GOLD - real wealth ($ US per ounce, on apr-2012=$1660)

We can see this bottomed out at a ratio of 6.92 back in 1981. Its got a ways to go before it hits that point again. But it certainly has made a brisk move already.

I think this chart is interesting because it pretty neatly shows the interrelationship between gold and credit from the standpoint of the major moves in recent times - and it also puts the current move in the perspective of history.

Then again it could be total bollocks. Let me know what you think!


Thanks for this chart Dave. Am I reading it right--gold's value increases with credit? If so, the deflationary position has always been a colossal vaporization of credit once the deflationary juggernaut gets rolling. As Ilargi points out it's the zombie money keeping gold and Apple stock afloat. When Fed printing no longer keeps up with credit destruction, look out below (by the way it isn't even keeping up with it now when you factor in the evaporation of credit in the ginormous shadow banking world).

So while Fed balance sheet and government debt expands, gold may be going up. But deflationists do see a reversal of the expansion of both those forces. Either the Fed is dismantled entirely or politically curtailed. How about a new Fed chairman, and one less inclined to print? Or a bond market pressure that resurfaces--something Synchro seems to think is no longer a threat, mainly because they left Japan alone for 20 years.

Synchro:

I don't think Japan's reprieve is indicative of our ultimate future. Many have said it before, and I will say it again too--Japan's reprieve came during 20 years of zombie money expansion in the rest of the world--the same zombie money expansion that gave us a Euro crisis, the Chinese "miracle", and the US subprime mortgage collapse.

Bond markets are manipulated only so long as they make money going along with it. It's free gravy--they'll take it. But if they sense that there's some money to be made on the other side of the equation (or the opportunity to mitigate loss), there will be a frantic rush.

Deflationists see a limit on the ability of a government to manipulate a market. Historically, manipulation has NEVER worked indefinitely.
Posted: 7 months, 4 weeks ago by Viscount St. Albans #5490
Steve B said:
Ilargi refers to wealth, not cash, so I suspect he's not talking about all of that wealth being liquid.


I'm pretty sure he is talking about liquid wealth. But our differing interpretations of his statement reveal why it's important to use careful, precise language, and to explain one's ideas.

It's not useful to simply throw out a number, like $1 million (bare minimum), without explaining how you arrived at it.

From my viewpoint, using simple division discussed in previous posts, this $1 million figure is a very high approximation of necessary liquid wealth for a 10-20 year time frame. Of course, it depends on one's spending patterns. But if one uses average annual household spending for 2011 ~ $50K /year, then $1 million is simply too high (by a long shot certainly over a 10 year time frame). I might be missing something that Ilargi is thinking about or considering. But, without an explanation, there's no way to know.

www.bls.gov/news.release/cesan.nr0.htm
Posted: 7 months, 4 weeks ago by p01 #5489
Back to the topic at hand, because obviously people who think the Fed can do anything about this clusterfuck have always had a pretty big trickle from the credit urethra, the crisis is going to be solved; like this:
http://www.reutersgallery.com/reutersgallery/?mode=view&id=1379
Posted: 7 months, 4 weeks ago by Synchro #5488
davefairtex wrote:


From what I can tell, the biggest differentiator in the TAE vs Martenson perspective boils down to the Fed + Treasury's ability to monetize & deficit-spend.

So far, Martenson sees few real impediments to Fed monetizing Treasury deficit spending. I know for sure TAE does not agree with this.


My take is that Martenson has it pretty well nailed.

What actual impediments are there to Fed monetizing, from here to eternity?

There are those who believe that the all-powerful Bond Vigilantes and the "Bond Markets" will rise up and put a stop to the central bankers' shenanigans. Well, I've got news for those who believe that . . . . ain't gonna happen.

It's been some time now since the Men In Black came to pay a visit on the so-called Bond Vigilantes, flashed their eyeballs with the little pen, and told them to crawl back into their holes and stay there. And that's where they've been.

As for the "Bond Markets", the central bankers have played them like Itzhak Perlman plays a Stradivarius. The bond markets crap their pants every time Bernanke, Draghi, or Shirakawa hits the cntl-P button. The Bank of Japan has been diddling the bond markets for 22 years since the 1990 implosion, and there is no reason to believe that central bankers worldwide haven't read that playbook.

True markets don't exist anymore anyway. They are manipulated and massaged every day and in every way by Wall Street and the central bankers themselves.

That which is being manipulated has lost its ability to enforce discipline on anything whatsoever. And so the central bankers will remain unchecked for the foreseeable future.


"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws"

— Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild, 1863
Posted: 7 months, 4 weeks ago by davefairtex #5487
Here's my newly-minted eurozone stress chart. It is based on interest rate differentials on 10 year bond debt, and the difference in yield between "safe haven" debt (Germany), the debt of the PIGS, and the ostensible "average" yield of eurozone debt. Ideally, the value of 0 would be the best possible - where German debt yields the same as Greek debt.

My sense is, more likely than not (60/40) we've seen the bulk of the happy reaction to the most recent intervention. The fact that SPX seems to have fallen off a bit even in the face of QE3 lends a bit of support to this thesis for me.

ezstress.png


Next step: inserting event labels onto the chart so we can see how the various interventions affected the eurozone bond market.
Posted: 7 months, 4 weeks ago by SteveB #5486
ilargi wrote:
My position, our position, often stated, is that the depression will be so severe that anyone who presently owns less than $1 million (complete ballpark number, but certainly no less that that) in real wealth (not stocks, pensions, real estate etc.), will have no use for gold. It will plummet with everything else once credit ceases to be available.


Viscount, Ilargi refers to wealth, not cash, so I suspect he's not talking about all of that wealth being liquid.
Posted: 7 months, 4 weeks ago by Professorlocknload #5485
@Ilargi;

"Are they all wrong? Yes they are, not because they're all stupid, but because they don't include a truly severe depression in their thinking and their models."

A "truly" severe depression to me is an inflationary depression. As long as bankers create the money in this system, that's where my bets will be. What's your definition of one?

As for needing a million "dollars" to begin to believe one may simply sit on a pile of Federal Reserve Promises to Pay, to get by. Good luck. Don't ask me how, but they will wring that last 4 cents in value left from the last 100 years of policy, out of their paper. (Is there a trend here?)

The pile will end up worth it's intrinsic value, but a claw hammer and the ability to swing it without mashing thumbs or knocking holes in the wall, will become priceless. Personally, I would rather pack a few gold coins with me to any new, safer place I might like to be, as opposed to a hundred pounds of tools or a cotton sack of processed green wood pulp, with which to purchase new tools. Especially if that haven might be in another country, where they already have enough pulp of their own with which to light a fire.

Now, I don't have any fancy charts to draw on, but I am confident the price of a good framing hammer has kept up with inflation, or will catch up in the kind of collapse "predicted." Heck, it might even hold it's own in a deflationary rout, who knows? And, most certainly, skilled labor will see to it that it marks itself to whatever market prevails in the future. In which case, one may get off that pile of dead presidents, and do productive work, and most likely get by.

So, if I were a Fractal Dung Beetle (see Fred Reed), I would definitely be pursuing every avenue in learning and practicing a useful, barter-able trade or skill set of some sort. Undertaker? Bartender? Plumber? Mechanic? Cardboard sign printer?

So, maybe the age of investment is not over, but is in transition from the financial realm to the fields of necessities.

As per Martenson, 90-10 is a wager. (There's lies, damn lies, and statistics) That the savvy and strong survive is a given, because they will most likely deal in what is, not in 10,000 what if's.

Another thought to ponder. Mobility, in many past ponzi collapses, has been an advantage. Where did all those folks in Detroit go?

What can you pack? I mean, after some tyrannical local community posse runs you off your doomstead? (Property taxes having been up'ed to meet that pile of FRN's you have been sitting on, or some lawyer wants a cut, or your corn row is messing up the migration pattern of the three toed salamander, or the discovery of one part per quadrillion of benzine in the air, just inside the property line ?)

So, I guess what I'm alluding to here is, it will all fluctuate, along with our open minded perceptions. Bend with it, or snap. That said, keep the ideas coming here, they are what I'm in it for.

As an aside, I heard from a Russian fellow that, on the collapse of the Soviet Union, all sorts of gold and silver coins began to surface, most dated before the founding of that great deadly social experiment. Do we suppose the deeds to land were still registered to the same families then, as before?
Posted: 7 months, 4 weeks ago by bluebird #5484
Yeh, maybe it's time to stop accessing banks/credit unions before Internet banking is denied. When the tipping point is reached that throws the world into a financial crisis, does anyone else think access to banks will suddenly stop the auto-deposits and auto-payments? Or will banking gradually be eliminated?
Posted: 7 months, 4 weeks ago by p01 #5483
Just to get some statistics clear, especially since it has been requested that income minus spending is oh, so important, and probably balance sheet is the most important:
Average American family savings account balance: $3,800;

So much for urban legends of western millionaires by the 5% truck-load, eh?
Now imagine a plunge in asset values....

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