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TOPIC: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed

Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 4 weeks ago #3264

Even though it is obvious that the major banks wield tremendous influence over bureaucratic political systems worldwide, it is not often that you find the phrase "bankster puppet" illustrated so clearly in the mainstream media. Usually, there is some pretense or alternative justification for doling out billions of euros, dollars, etc. to the banks, such as - "if we don't do this, the entire global economy will implode" (remember TARP?). Back then, people didn't have a clue what was going on and were scared enough to go along with any vague reason presented to them.

So it's interesting to see now that these pretenses for direct wealth transfers from the people to the banks have been dropped like bad habits. In Europe, the financial atmosphere has become so dire and desperate that the PUPPET politicians and bureaucrats can no longer pretend that they care about anything other than saving the banks at the expense of everyone else. Exhibit A are the excerpts from an article in Bloomberg today that are quoted below, written by James G. Neuger:

EU Weighs Direct Aid to Banks, Euro Bonds as Crisis Antidote

 

The European Commission called for direct euro-area aid for troubled banks, and touted a Europe- wide deposit-guarantee system and common bond issuance as antidotes to the debt crisis now threatening to overwhelm Spain.

 

The commission, the European Union's central regulator, sided with Spain in proposing that the euro's permanent bailout fund inject cash to banks instead of channeling the money via national governments. It also offered Spain extra time to squeeze the budget deficit.

 

...

 

The use of the rescue fund to recapitalize banks "might be envisaged" and would "sever the link between banks and the sovereigns," the commission said today in Brussels. Jose Barroso, the commission's president, said "it is important to use all possibilities offered in terms of flexibility."

What these proposals by the European Commission (Jose Manuel Barroso) translate into is - "Forget austerity! And forget any pretenses of national considerations on how to properly use money from the bailout funds. We need the Spanish banks to take most of that money, as well as an unspecified amount of future money, and use it directly in the form of capital buffers and deposit guarantees... NOW!" With Greece, there was still time to pretend that some of the money would protect government services for the people and would come with conditions attached, designed to promote domestic growth. Not so with Spain.

Signs of stress multiplied in financial markets today. Italy missed its target in a bond auction, driving its 10-year yields as high as 6.01 percent, the highest since Jan. 31. The yield was at 5.95 percent at 2:10 p.m. in Brussels. Doubts over the health of Spain's banks pushed up Spanish 10-year yields as high as 6.70 percent, the highest since Nov. 28. That yield was last at 6.62 percent.

 

...

 

After more than two crisis-filled years and 386 billion euros ($480 billion) in loan pledges to Greece, Ireland and Portugal, "markets remain exceptionally tense and vigilant and confidence is still weak," the commission said.

The money and blood offerings of the Greek, Irish and Portuguese were not enough to satisfy the all-encompassing hunger of the financial puppeteers. There is no doubt in my mind that at least a portion of this market "tension" is engineered by them to put the screws to those who reject the European Commission's cold, hard cash-for-banks proposal. Remember, they ARE the system that they are trying to save, and that's exactly why they are trying so damn hard to save it. So who could possibly have the temerity to resist?

Current EU plans call for the 500 billion-euro European Stability Mechanism, set to start up in July, to funnel bank-aid money through national governments and, ultimately, require those governments to pay it back [yeah...right].

 

Germany is spearheading resistance to direct European financing for banks because that would let governments bypass the conditions set for full aid programs, such as deeper budget cuts and more European intrusion into economic management.

 

"Direct help for banks is out of the question, that won't fly," Norbert Barthle, the budget spokesman in parliament for Chancellor Angela Merkel's Christian Democratic Union, said in an interview yesterday. Finland is in Germany's camp, Martti Salmi, a Finance Ministry official, said in a telephone interview today.

Ah, yes - the resistance comes from a small, yet critical portion of the German, Finnish and Dutch politicians/officials, and, more importantly, from the people of those countries. These countries are scared to death of financial contagion wreaking havoc in their banking systems, but they are also faced with the reality that this contagion will occur no matter what. The only question is whether they would prefer to kick the can a few months/years down the road, and allow the European Transfer Union to unwind all of the economic gains they had made over the last two decades while they wait. Also, whether they would like to go into elections with a population on the verge of mass protests and riots.

In an assessment by staff economists, the commission said there is little room for deficit-plagued countries to push back planned savings to a later date. Such an easing-up would be punished by markets, it said.

 

"Member states which face high and potentially rising risk premia do not have much room for maneuver to deviate from their nominal fiscal targets, even if macroeconomic conditions turn out worse than expected," according to the document.

 

Still, Economic and Monetary Commissioner Olli Rehn said Spain might be granted an extra year, until 2014, to bring its deficit down to the limit of 3 percent of gross domestic product.

 

Debate over euro bonds flared at last week's summit of European leaders, the first for French President Francois Hollande after he took office vowing to challenge the German- dominated budget-cutting creed that has marked the crisis response.

The new French President, Francois Hollande, is now exposing himself to be the biggest bankster puppet of them all. He is opposing the imminent austerity paradigm because he knows that the bankers need more time (and less conditions) to extract the wealth required to satisfy their greed. Austerity served to justify the bailouts over the past two years, but now it is also destroying the underlying economies of the peripheral countries and, therefore, the banking sectors. Hollande also knows that the French banks are not really in much better shape than the Spanish banks, and may need to draw on those direct ESM funds soon.

What he wants is what the rest of the European Puppets want - enough time to re-capitalize the Euro area banks with the money of German, Finnish and Dutch taxpayers. The problem for them is that the German, Finnish and Dutch populations (and those politicians who are not yet corrupted) are not altogether ignorant of what happened in 2008 and what has been happening ever since. They know that none of the money used to bail out peripheral banks will a) make it into the general Eurozone economy, b) repaid by the banks and c) conditioned on any credible austerity. There is absolutely no reason for them to play ball; at least, not until the market pressures bearing down get much, much worse.

But, by then, it may be too late for the Banksters and their Eurocratic Puppets.

Read More...

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 4 weeks ago #3268




RE wrote:
...Main problem of course remains all that nasty EXPOSURE Eurotrash Banks have to Greek Debt, not to mention all those nasty Derivatives set to EXPLODE as soon as Greece finally does miss a Bond Payment. So regardless of the fact Widows and Orphans might be starving in Greece, the ECB or IMF or ESM or some other cockamamie vehicle will pay off on Bonds FOR the Greek “People”, to “Help” them. No Euros will cross the Greek Border, but plenty will cross into the Vaults of JPMC, Goldman and Deutche Bank!

Anyhow, the nonsensical idea that the Euro problems or even the Greek MINISCULE ones were solved at any point in this long charade of Extend & Pretend is OFFICIALLY squashed here now, NO MEETING of Von Rumplestiltskin, Kukla, Fran and Ollie Rehn, Francoise Hollandaise Sauce or any other newly elected Eurotrash Pol is going to convince ANYBODY that ANY problems have been solved. They are SOL on Political and Economic Cards to play here now. The Clown Show has run its course here, so unfortunately the NEW Clowns will be sent in. The next bunch of Clowns are unlikely to be quite so funny as this last bunch...
Last Edit: 11 months, 4 weeks ago by Reverse Engineer.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 4 weeks ago #3269

  • Karpatok
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John Ward on the Slog has reported to day that his sources have told him the prisoners in Greek prisons are receiving no food or rations. That in addition to no medicines, health care, education etc for the regular population. Some people in Athens have created public gardening plots for producing some "free" food. Is Greece the first act to be followed by the rest of Europe and finally the USA? What does it take for a storming of the Bastille?
Last Edit: 11 months, 4 weeks ago by Karpatok.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 4 weeks ago #3270

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While most writers on the subject seem to be in agreement that every thing is enacted to benefit the banks, I would like to address the ownership of said banks or masters of the puppetry above the scenes. If even the Dimons and Blankfeins, the Obamas, Hollandes, Merkels etc. are second tier or even below, who the hell are we talking about. Who is at the top of this mess. Now Ashvin, Re, you are pretty smart guys, and I know that you have strong opinions. So have a little courage and stop hiding in generalities. NAME SOME NAMES. Because when I become Robespierre, I will want to know who I am sending to the guillotine. No more milkmaids, but the real evil stuff. Now SAY IT! Who are they? Or who do you in all fallibility think THEY ARE?

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3271

Karpatok wrote:
While most writers on the subject seem to be in agreement that every thing is enacted to benefit the banks, I would like to address the ownership of said banks or masters of the puppetry above the scenes. If even the Dimons and Blankfeins, the Obamas, Hollandes, Merkels etc. are second tier or even below, who the hell are we talking about. Who is at the top of this mess. Now Ashvin, Re, you are pretty smart guys, and I know that you have strong opinions. So have a little courage and stop hiding in generalities. NAME SOME NAMES. Because when I become Robespierre, I will want to know who I am sending to the guillotine. No more milkmaids, but the real evil stuff. Now SAY IT! Who are they? Or who do you in all fallibility think THEY ARE?


I think you will be disappointed in your search for an ultimate mastermind. In a world of highly complex systems, human beings at all levels of society--including the very top--are buffeted by unforeseen forces and ultimately unable to control them. That isn't to say that the rich and powerful aren't incredibly opportunistic, but I'm convinced they take advantage of change rather than explicitly effecting such change. My concern is that the human need to search for mastermind geniuses behind our woes has a terrible track record in our history. We usually end up blaming entirely innocent groups of people. The SYSTEM needs to change, and we can be part of changing that system. Cutting off an individual matermind's head will do nothing one way or the other (except add to another kind of evil).
Last Edit: 11 months, 3 weeks ago by skipbreakfast.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3272

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OK, RE, granted that you announced the merger of RIT and the Rockefellers over at the kitchen sink at the Diner but isn't there a little more to it than that? Previous Rothschild consolidation in Europe, and now purchase of 37% of Rockefeller by Rothschild Investment Trust, in order to have a bigger footprint in USA. Does the Vatican still own Bank of America or is that passe already. Come on, these revelations are leaving me breathless in anticipation. Flesh out the broader picture please and in the present time. We don,t have to go back to 1692 and reinvitation of the Userers to jolly old England.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3273

What about our own individual responsiblity in this whole mess? We're voters. We're consumers. We have free will. I don't want to blame the victim. But I also want to avoid wasting time on blaming Puff the Magic Dragon.

I have no doubt heads will roll before this is over. They will largely be symbolic gestures, and not necesarily true justice. Again, let's recognize we are party to a big system that is corrupt, and we have enabled a lot of really corrupt people to make things worse and worse. Is it too trite to say "change starts with us"?
Last Edit: 11 months, 3 weeks ago by skipbreakfast.
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Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3274

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Sorry, Skip, but I've been dropping my Calvinism lately. I'm no victim.But I'm not responsible either, and you are just suggesting that we don't make a very deep inquiry. I am convinced that what we were taught in school about , democracy, level playing field, raising oneself by one's own bootstraps, right to vote, personal responsibility, yadda, yadda, yadda, yadda, has been an enormous smokescreen to hide a few ugly realities. So what's the tabu on talking about the bigger realities? You are also a smart guy. What are you afraid of? And BTW this isn't Puff the Magic Dragon. Let's hear your analysis of who is behind debt slavery and usury. If it's a waste of time for you then you are excused. But I really want to understand the full system if you don't mind.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3277

@KK

The Rothschilds and Rockefellers present clear and obvious targets, but even they are just Tip of the Iceberg here.

"Ownership" of the world as it is constructed is tiered up through many layers of Holding Companies. The paperwork on this stuff in some cases is hundreds of years old and buried so deep in the vaults in the City of London it will take decades of forensic accounting to determine who actually owns what and how the money flow gets directed, if it is even possible to do that at all.

If *I* knew who all was at the pinnacle of the pyramid, I'd surely name the names, and surely also come down with Bullet meets Brain disease or an untimely Coronary.

IMHO, the only way to work your way to the Top of the Pyramid is to start with who by virtue of what is obvious you know have a connection to the next tier up the pyramid. You bring them in, one by one in front of the Inquisition and you give them a good reason to TALK. If they really do NOT know who is above them and have no worthwhile information, this is unfortunate but you can't make an Omelette without breaking a Few Eggs, and besides that they are GUILTY in their own right anyhow of their own set of crimes against humanity.

Now, SB might consider such an Inquisition not to have worthwhile value, but IMHO it does. First off, even if they are not the TOP level VERMIN, they still make the Kitchen an unpleasant place to cook, so they need to be exterminated also. Besides that, on a social level, it is important to reinforce to people that Greed does NOT pay. Really, how many people do you think would strive to become Billionaires if on a Nightly Basis Reality TV was showing Pigman Executions? I know I would have a low motivation level to strive for that if I was a kid watching TV.

The whole problem we have here is that for Millenia we have acquiesced to the idea that Greed DOES pay, we never got control of the infestation from the get go here. Now the Earth is INFESTED with VERMIN so you can't fix this just with a few Perp Walks here.

Now, I do believe that it is possible to Repent and do Penitence for your Sins, so any Pigman who willingly comes forward to divest himself of his ill gotten gains and agrees to do penitence for the rest of his life scrubbing out cesspools can be allowed to live. This is fair and IMHO GENEROUS, considering the fact prior to repentance said Pigman probably was responsible for the deaths of 1000s of starving children.

I do also suggest the Inquistion has some Cutoffs here in the early stages. You could set a minimum net worth of say $1B at the beginning of Criminals to bring before the Auto da Fe, this alone would fill up the docket pretty well with 10,000 or more people I suspect. That will take some time to work through.

Eventually here you will locate the top of the pyramid cockroaches. May take some time, but persistence pays off.

Bring in the Orkin Man.



RE

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3278

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Furthermore, I don't see how retiring to a sweet permaculture doomstead is going to be change we can all believe in. I don't believe there is one mastermind genius behind it all either, but I do believe that a relatively few very wealthy, powerful and uncaring evil people have a chokehold on society such that anything less than revolution will not help. The Augean stables need to be turned upside down to wash out the filth and if a few heads roll in the process in the process, that's just the way it is. Maybe Marie Antoinette was innocent for example, but she kept walking on by and refused to look. So it depends on what you call innocent heads that roll. If ordinary folk are complicit simply for being within the system, then what are the movers and shakers? I want to give them a face so I'll know to aim at them and not their go betweens.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3279

Karpatok wrote:
Furthermore, I don't see how retiring to a Maybe Marie Antoinette was innocent for example, but she kept walking on by and refused to look. So it depends on what you call innocent heads that roll. If ordinary folk are complicit simply for being within the system, then what are the movers and shakers? I want to give them a face so I'll know to aim at them and not their go betweens.


Marie Antoinette was GUILTY, merely by being complicit and a part of the French Arsitocracy of the time. From Wikipedia"

Marie Antoinette ( /məˈriː æntwəˈnɛt/ or /æntwɑːˈnɛt/; French pronunciation: [maʁi ɑ̃twanɛt]; baptised Maria Antonia Josepha Johanna (or Maria Antonia Josephina Johanna[1]); 2 November 1755 – 16 October 1793) was an Archduchess of Austria and the Queen of France and of Navarre. She was the fifteenth and penultimate child of Holy Roman Empress Maria Theresa and Holy Roman Emperor Francis I.

In April 1770, on the day of her marriage to Louis-Auguste, Dauphin of France, she subsequently became Dauphine of France. Marie Antoinette assumed the title of Queen of France and of Navarre when her husband, Louis XVI of France, ascended the throne upon the death of Louis XV in May 1774. After seven years of marriage, she gave birth to a daughter, Marie-Thérèse Charlotte, the first of four children.

Initially charmed by her personality and beauty, the French people generally came to dislike her, accusing "L'Autre-chienne" (a pun in French playing with the words "Autrichienne" meaning Austrian (woman) and "Autre-chienne" meaning Other bitch) of being profligate and promiscuous,[2] and of harboring sympathies for France's enemies, particularly Austria, her country of origin.[3]

After the royal family's flight to Varennes, Louis XVI was deposed and the monarchy abolished on 21 September 1792; the royal family was subsequently imprisoned at the Temple Prison. Nine months after her husband's execution, Marie Antoinette was herself tried, convicted of treason, and executed by guillotine on 16 October 1793.


You know, even if she never said "let them eat cake", from all historical records we know of Marie never was penitent for the life of priviledge she led while the rest of French society was in the Toilet. A Monarchy is not deposed until after many years the pain for the soicety as a whole has become unbearable.

You take on great RESPONSIBILTY when you are Elite in your society for the well being of all. If your stewardship is bad, many people DIE. You must be accountable for that, and the only true accountability for it is that you ALSO must DIE. Marie Antoinette got what she DESERVED. In time, so will the Elite of this time period.

RE

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3281

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And the correct phrase for that responsibility is Noblesse Oblige. When I was young I called it the obligation of the nobles once in a serious discussion with my older sister. It is in the end, the obligation of a person of priviledge to see to the well being of others not so fortunate.It is a serious responsibility that attends one's position and is not to be taken lightly in time frittered away.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3282

Say you can finally winnow down your search for the three or four genius masterminds behind the problems now facing billions of people. Then what? You think that by cutting off their heads the problem is solved? Obviously not! There are so many more that will happily take their place. So then, I suppose you'd argue you'd have to cut off more than three or four heads. How many exactly? Hundreds? Thousands? What degree of culpability for our predicament shall we use to determine their fate? How on earth would the degree of culpability be measured?! No. I really do love RE's contributions here, and I have a feeling we'd get along rather well as neighbours (I've lived in the far north myself), but I wholly disagree that the search is worthwile for these mythical evil genius masterminds, who apparently manipulate even the Jamie Dimons and Jon Corzines like helpless puppets on a string. And I'll say it again: there isn't any such ultiamate evil genius at the top of the pyramid anyhow. It's just rich people doing what rich people do--that is being human like the rest of us. The whole greedy lot. We just haven't done a very good job at keeping things in check.

I'm not saying we don't need to get revolutionary on some asses. And some people deserve long jail sentences. But the whole thing is far more systemic, and no one has a master plan with an all-seeing eye for present, past and future. They're not that smart. No one is. Too much chaos to track.

History is replete with a minority of oppressive rich people crushing the poor. In fact the 20th Century freedoms from this repression are more of an historical anomaly, from my understanding. It's not surprising we lost the plot. But we can still get it back, I think. I'd rather we focused on things we can actually achieve, rather than chasing ghosts and mythical creatures with supernatural powers.
Last Edit: 11 months, 3 weeks ago by skipbreakfast.
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Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3283

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The only way we win or get justice is by changing what's in their hearts/minds. They have to freely choose to stop working towards evil goals.

Killing them won't work - hell, we can't even figure out who they are. Even if we could, it would only bring us short-term satisfaction.

Everyone here knows that any targeted plan to "root out the evil" will result in large amounts of collateral damage. I don't want to become them to (potentially) defeat them - it's not worth it.

Nietzsche wrote:
"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."


John wrote:
"And ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free"

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3284

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@ RE
"You know, even if she never said "let them eat cake", from all historical records we know of Marie never was penitent for the life of priviledge she led while the rest of French society was in the Toilet. A Monarchy is not deposed until after many years the pain for the soicety as a whole has become unbearable.

You take on great RESPONSIBILTY when you are Elite in your society for the well being of all. If your stewardship is bad, many people DIE. You must be accountable for that, and the only true accountability for it is that you ALSO must DIE. Marie Antoinette got what she DESERVED. In time, so will the Elite of this time period."

Since the USA is 5% of the world population and we use 25% of the energy resources and 30% of the raw material resources where does that put the US population in your definition of the elite? Anyone with the time and money to post to this board must surely fall into that category.

When you and others get on the topic of doing away with the elite, all Ican think of is images from "The Killing Fields". You say you seek justice, to me it sounds more like "meet the new boss, same as the old boss". If you use the same methods as your enemy to deal with problems, you tend to get the same results. The "elite" ostracize, ban and kill those who disagree with them, if you use just an "us against them" narrative all you ultimately advocate is switching a set of old insiders, righteous ones for a set of new insiders, righteous ones. I don't see that as a change worth while.
Candace

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3286

[quote="ashvin" post=3283]

Nietzsche wrote:
"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."


This is nonsense from the keyboard of Nietzshe. What's his URL? Ill go troll his Blog.

Easy example, 2 guns, 2 shooters, 2 victims.

Case 1: Shooter goes into liquor store, kills clerk to take register money.

Motivation: Evil

Case 2: Shooter sees rape in progress, kills rapist to save victim.

Motivation: Good

You don't become your enemy by using the same tactics, it depends onthe motivation behind it.

Insofar as numbers are concerned, I doubt there are just 3 or 4 at the very top, the numbers are probably in the thousands. Its also a Hydra problem, where when you cut off one head, another grows to replace it. The trick in killing a hydra is to lop off ALL the heads simultaneously. A challenge, but not impossible to accomplish either.

Collateral damage? No doubt, but WORSE collateral damage if you don't do it. Leave the vermin lose here, they'll kill us ALL. Seriously. Now they want to mine Uranium in the Chesapeake Bay, as Surly mentioned in the Diner. How long do you take this shit before you get rid of this vermin, eh?

RE
www.doomsteaddiner.org

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3288

@Candace,

FWIW we're down to 20%. We are actually down a bit absolutely, and lots of other folks are up quite a lot. The rest of the OECD is similar.
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Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3290

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[quote="Reverse Engineer" post=3286]ashvin wrote:


Easy example, 2 guns, 2 shooters, 2 victims.

Case 1: Shooter goes into liquor store, kills clerk to take register money.

Motivation: Evil

Case 2: Shooter sees rape in progress, kills rapist to save victim.

Motivation: Good

You don't become your enemy by using the same tactics, it depends on the motivation behind it.


You know as well as I do that this is a bad analogy to your systemic roto-rooter plan, or let's just call it the Orkin Man Master Plan (OMMP).
The OMMP is operating at very large scales and at a much more complex level than your individual person shooting to kill a murderer and/or rapist in the act of the crime.

In the individual analogy, your motivations are indeed much different than that of your targets. Actually, your tactics are different also, because there is not much premeditation involved and you seem to only be resorting to force when you just so happen to be in a position to directly save another person's life, or at least save them from bodily harm.

In OMMP, our tactics involve premeditation and targeting specific people for extermination. Our motivation is to rid the world, via tortures and executions, of a certain number of people who we believe are counter-productive to the ability of humanity to survive and thrive. We will not hesitate to cross any thresholds to accomplish what we set out to do, and will adopt an "if you are not with us, you are against us" policy. We are going into the OMMP knowing full well that many "innocents" will be killed/harmed in the process of reaching our end goals.

Do our tactics and motivations really sound that much different from those of the Monsters we are seeking out? And that's what Nietzsche was talking about...

Collateral damage? No doubt, but WORSE collateral damage if you don't do it. Leave the vermin lose here, they'll kill us ALL. Seriously. Now they want to mine Uranium in the Chesapeake Bay, as Surly mentioned in the Diner. How long do you take this shit before you get rid of this vermin, eh?


You can't know that for sure. For all you know, the OOMP will FAIL miserably, and they will still end up attaining their goals. Except now you will both have innocent blood on your hands. In fact, the odds are that the FAIL part is exactly what will happen. If they are going to fail also, it will most likely be because they end up destroying themselves through their own destructive actions, one way or another.
Last Edit: 11 months, 3 weeks ago by ashvin.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3297

RE writes: "Its also a Hydra problem, where when you cut off one head, another grows to replace it. The trick in killing a hydra is to lop off ALL the heads simultaneously. A challenge, but not impossible to accomplish either."

The hydra is an excellent analogy. A mythical creature which requires mythical strategies to dispose of it. Best left for comic books.

And besides, it's starting to sound a wee bit....crazy.

Again, let's focus on what we CAN accomplish. Survival. Community organisation. Education. Asset protection. We're getting a chicken coop soon! Yeeha. My biggest fear in that regard is that when the hens stop laying (due to age) I'll be too attached to eat them. Modern life has made me soft. I'd be useless at killing hydras even if they did exist!
Last Edit: 11 months, 3 weeks ago by skipbreakfast.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3299

ashvin wrote:


You know as well as I do that this is a bad analogy to your systemic roto-rooter plan, or let's just call it the Orkin Man Master Plan (OMMP).
The OMMP is operating at very large scales and at a much more complex level than your individual person shooting to kill a murderer and/or rapist in the act of the crime.

In the individual analogy, your motivations are indeed much different than that of your targets. Actually, your tactics are different also, because there is not much premeditation involved and you seem to only be resorting to force when you just so happen to be in a position to directly save another person's life, or at least save them from bodily harm.


I do NOT know as well as you do any such thing. Its merely a matter of scale, not principle.

I will give the example of Fuk-U-shima here. How many Deaths do you think will result from this catastrophe? 10K? Probably already done. 100K? Well within reasonable estimates given the proximity of the population to this disater. Even 10M is not outta da question.

Who is responsible for this? Somebody has to be held accountable. IMHO, its the TEPCO Owners and Managers and their lackey Pols who built this GUN and stuck it to the head of 10M Rape Victims.

Not only did they stick the Gun to the Population in the PAST, they currently KEEP the gun pointed at everybody ELSE. I SEE a RAPE in progress here, and I am gonna STOP it NOW by Gunning Down the who knows how many people complicit in this operation who AL are taking money out of the Cash Register at the moment. No more Mr. Nice Guy. This is a WAR here, and people are DYING as we speak. I am EVEN willing to alow these folks to OWN UP to their Sins and Repent and allow them to LIVE, an opportunity they did NOT give their Victims. So who is more Righteous here, eh?

I can make the SAME argument for the Owners and Managers and Pols who made the Macondo Blowout possible, and the same assholes who run Monsanto and push GMO foods out at the population and the SAME assholes running Big Pharma. They are KILLING people RIGHT NOW! BY THE MILLIONS. It has to be STOPPED, and pussy footing around here is NOT stopping it. No More Mr. Nice Guy now.

Just because they are protected by Corporate Personhood which allows the Individuals here to escape their culpability under this Legal System makes them no less culpable. Like anyone who willy nilly goes out and KILLS people for their own self-aggrandizement like the Liquor Store Robber they gotta GO here. Eye for an Eye, Tooth for a Tooth.

In OMMP, our tactics involve premeditation and targeting specific people for extermination. Our motivation is to rid the world, via tortures and executions, of a certain number of people who we believe are counter-productive to the ability of humanity to survive and thrive. We will not hesitate to cross any thresholds to accomplish what we set out to do, and will adopt an "if you are not with us, you are against us" policy. We are going into the OMMP knowing full well that many "innocents" will be killed/harmed in the process of reaching our end goals.

Do our tactics and motivations really sound that much different from those of the Monsters we are seeking out? And that's what Nietzsche was talking about...


Sure it is "premeditated". Any Legal System is, and I am advocating for a Legal System which holds these folks ACCOUNTABLE, ferrets them out and brings them before the Court of the Inquisition. Sorry, english Common Law is not WORKING. If something doesn't work, you try something DIFFERENT. As Einstein said, "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results".

RE wrote:
Collateral damage? No doubt, but WORSE collateral damage if you don't do it. Leave the vermin lose here, they'll kill us ALL. Seriously. Now they want to mine Uranium in the Chesapeake Bay, as Surly mentioned in the Diner. How long do you take this shit before you get rid of this vermin, eh?


Ashvin wrote:
You can't know that for sure. For all you know, the OOMP will FAIL miserably, and they will still end up attaining their goals. Except now you will both have innocent blood on your hands. In fact, the odds are that the FAIL part is exactly what will happen. If they are going to fail also, it will most likely be because they end up destroying themselves through their own destructive actions, one way or another.


I don't know anything for sure other than the fact what we are doing AIN'T Working. I advocate a change of tactics. May work, may not. if somebody comes up with a better plan, I am all ears, but IMHO here a few Perp Walks and Passive Resistance or "Active Withdrawal" is NOT a better plan with any greater chance of success, in fact I rate it lower in its possibilities for success.

Bring in the Orkin Man.

RE

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3300

What we are doing ain't working! Totally agree! Oh boy, and is it ever NOT working.

Here's an unsettling perspective: "The End Game: 2012 & 2013"

www.zerohedge.com/news/big-reset-2012-and-2013-will-usher-end-scariest-presentation-ever

We don't have a lot of time to run after those guys at the top. I might not even have enough time to build my chicken coop!

Eventually, if we are forced to rebuild from the ground up, I expect we will be wiser and pissed off and will be happy to bring a few people to a (more effective) court of law. Then again, there might be so much water under the bridge at that point that we'll have completely lost track. We'll just want to get on with building something new.
Last Edit: 11 months, 3 weeks ago by skipbreakfast.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3301

skipbreakfast wrote:
What we are doing ain't working! Totally agree! Oh boy, and is it ever NOT working.

Here's an unsettling perspective: "The End Game: 2012 & 2013"

www.zerohedge.com/news/big-reset-2012-and-2013-will-usher-end-scariest-presentation-ever


MAJOR DEBATE between me and Golden Oxen currently IN PROGRESS on this set of Graphs and Info at the moment in the Big Slide v2.0 thread over on the Diner. EXTREMELY ENTERTAINING!

RE

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3303

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[quote="Reverse Engineer" post=3299]ashvin wrote:

Sure it is "premeditated". Any Legal System is, and I am advocating for a Legal System which holds these folks ACCOUNTABLE, ferrets them out and brings them before the Court of the Inquisition. Sorry, english Common Law is not WORKING. If something doesn't work, you try something DIFFERENT. As Einstein said, "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results".


You can call it whatever you want, but it is not a legal system. Legal systems are designed exactly to prevent OMMP. You can make a very good argument that legal systems are not adequate purveyors of justice in times like these, but you can't pretend that OMMP is some kind of legal framework for carrying out justice. It not only goes against every principle of common law, but every right found in our Constitution. Isn't it ironic that we rail against the NDAA for subverting due process, but we are so eager to throw it away ourselves when it comes to taking out the "bad guys"?

Its merely a matter of scale, not principle...

Not only did they stick the Gun to the Population in the PAST, they currently KEEP the gun pointed at everybody ELSE. I SEE a RAPE in progress here, and I am gonna STOP it NOW by Gunning Down the who knows how many people complicit in this operation who AL are taking money out of the Cash Register at the moment. No more Mr. Nice Guy. This is a WAR here, and people are DYING as we speak. I am EVEN willing to alow these folks to OWN UP to their Sins and Repent and allow them to LIVE, an opportunity they did NOT give their Victims. So who is more Righteous here, eh?


First, the issues of scale and complexity automatically make it a difference in principles between the individual rape victim in the liqour store and the entire world that may be exposed to the consequences of Fukushima. How are you determining who is complicit in that incident? Anyone that has taken "money out of the Cash Register"?? That's a bit vague, to say the least. What about the families of the people you determine to be complicit... how do they factor in? I think even you would admit that what you are proposing is RECKLESS. It is a desperate measure for desperate times, right?

That motivation is not much different from theirs. You are just targeting different people for different end goals, but you are being consumed by many of the same emotions that drive them - fear, anxiety, desperation, frustration, anger, rage. And once we start down that road, who among us will have the discipline to stop?? Maybe you will, but many of your followers/compatriots won't.

As for sin and penitence, is it not you who is committing the ultimate sin - putting yourself in the role of God? According to the Bible, God is the only one who can know with absolute certainty who is Evil, and who has been saved through penitence and a change of hearts. And, He WILL cast his wrath on the former when the time comes. It is not man's role to dispense with that kind of Divine Justice.

You say, "so who is more righteous here, eh?"

Why are you suddenly comparing your actions to theirs, as if the latter is measuring stick that we should all strive to beat by an inch? The fact that they are Evil does not give us a free pass as long as we manage to be a little less evil (or more righteous) than they are. We should strive to be completely righteous and nothing less. The OMMP, IMO, is not a great way to start.

I don't know anything for sure other than the fact what we are doing AIN'T Working. I advocate a change of tactics. May work, may not. if somebody comes up with a better plan, I am all ears, but IMHO here a few Perp Walks and Passive Resistance or "Active Withdrawal" is NOT a better plan with any greater chance of success, in fact I rate it lower in its possibilities for success.

Bring in the Orkin Man.


So the argument is - if what we're doing doesn't seem to be "working", then we should do whatever else comes to mind, no matter what the consequences are? Sorry, I don't buy that for a second. And aren't you the one who has said many times that the Owners are in the process of destroying their own wealth/control base, by plundering energy resources and crippling the planet's environment/ecosystems? That's something I happen to believe as well, and perhaps that is the best tactic we can hope for at this point. The only thing we have near full control over now is our own free will and actions, and that is not something we should wield lightly or recklessly.
Last Edit: 11 months, 3 weeks ago by ashvin.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3312

  • ashvin
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Sorry RE,

When I was trying to reply to your last comment, I accidentally clicked "edit" instead of "reply". Then I went ahead and wrote my comment and hit Submit. If you still have the comment you can post it again, but I don't think there is any way for me to restore it. Now I just went ahead and deleted it, and re-posted my reply under my name. I think a good portion of your original comment is captured in the quotation blocks, though.
Last Edit: 11 months, 3 weeks ago by ashvin.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3313

I did not save the original comment. You might look in your software to see if it stores prior editions. If not, it is lost. You should delete the comment listed under my name and paste it into a post with your name, with a profuse apology at the top in bold italics with a Dunce Cap image for fucking up so badly. LOL.

RE

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3314

  • ashvin
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RE wrote:


No they aren't. Legal systems prevent nothing, they merely define punishment for disobediance to the law.


They also define what the "law" is, how to determine who has disobeyed the law, what the punishment should be and how and by whom that punishment should be carried out. It is also almost always a function of centralized institutions of governance recognized by the people under their jurisdiction..

The point here is that there is no reason for us to call OMMP a "legal system", as if that somehow mitigates the level of premeditated violence carried out in its name.

You should recall from prior conversations regarding the Constitution that it is my general conclusion that it was written by a bunch of Aristocrats to justify their Private property rights and doesn't do much for the average J6P.


And you should recall that I agree with that conclusion. I was talking specifically about the Bill of Rights, though, which limits the arbitrary use of state-sanctioned force against the people. If OMMP is designed to circumvent the Bill of Rights, then it contains an implicit justification for its enemies to do the same.


Disagreed, scale does not make a difference in principle, only in the logistics for ferreting out the truth. More complex, certainly, but in principle still the same.

Far as families go, they are often complicit. For example, its likely Bernie Madoff's Wife and Son were complicit. Also of course Bush1 and Bush2 both complicit. Its up to the Court of the Inquisition to determine how deep the rot of corruption is in a given family.


Pray tell, how will the Court of the Inquisition (i.e. you and your cronies) do that? Is there an age limit? What about the 6 year old kid who seems to be a corrupted little brat? The Husband/Wife who materially supported the corruption without knowing, or that sat by and didn't do anything to stop their spouse? Or perhaps they did do something, but they just didn't do "enough"? How can we be sure that your torturous methods do not lead to false confessions, just like the Inquisition's?

No, my main driver is to clean up the kitchen. You stop when the Kitchen is clean. Granted this may take a while and the decision is subjective in the end, but that is true for just abotu all legal decisions.


Oh, another thing about legal systems - they should be designed to limit the use of subjectivity as much as possible. So if you insist on calling OMMP a legal system with "legal decisions", then it is a really shitty one.

And you are not cleaning a Kitchen, you are torturing and murdering people. Since you are human, you are not doing that without being consumed by emotions. You cannot dismiss that fact by analogizing it to cleaning a kitchen.

Ashvin wrote:
As for sin and penitence, is it not you who is committing the ultimate sin - putting yourself in the role of God? According to the Bible, God is the only one who can know with absolute certainty who is Evil, and who has been saved through penitence and a change of hearts. And, He WILL cast his wrath on the former when the time comes. It is not man's role to dispense with that kind of Divine Justice.


RE wrote:
You can assume that if such a plan is undertaken that you are operating under God's direction and are so the tool of God in it's implementation, you are not God him/hers/itself. Far as whether it is Man's Role to dispense Divine Justice, that is a matter for God to decide. If God wants to use a man to dispense Divine Justice, it is his/her/its perogative to do so.


Uh, no, we can't assume anything. Unless God speaks to us directly and guides us towards those actions, then we cannot assume we have God's blessing simply because we have incorporated our human understandings of sin and penitence. If anything, since we never predicated the value of OMMP on its ability to obtain God's approval, we can assume that we DON'T have it for the sake of this argument.

We don't know what the consequences will be here for taking these actions, but the likely consequences for not taking them are dire enough to warrant taking the risk. We know if we don't gain control over this, we get more Fuk-U-shimas and more Macondos. I suggest that the consequences could be good ones. A clean kitchen empty of cockroaches is to the benefit of all except the cockroaches.


We do know some of the consequences - innocent lives will be sacrificed and at least some of the people carrying out the Inquisition will start operating with less than pure motives, or perhaps even at cross-purposes. This is what ALWAYS happens, without fail. So let's not pretend that we don't know whether some of those things will happen. What we truly don't know is what the chances for success are, i.e. the chances of preventing future Fukushimas or Deepwater Horizons, but my educated guesstimate is that they will be slim to razor thin.
Last Edit: 11 months, 3 weeks ago by ashvin.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3316

They also define what the "law" is, how to determine who has disobeyed the law, what the punishment should be and how and by whom that punishment should be carried out. It is also almost always a function of centralized institutions of governance recognized by the people under their jurisdiction..

The point here is that there is no reason for us to call OMMP a "legal system", as if that somehow mitigates the level of premeditated violence carried out in its name.


Did I say anywhere that the Inquisition should not make Legal Definitions here for what constitutes Crimes Against Humanity and what the appropriate Punsihments should be? I am all for developing a comprehensive Code to make these Definitions before beginning the Auto da Fe.

We can start on the Code of RE Hammurabi right here with 5 starter Principles:

1- If you were in a position of Authority with knowledge of the dangers of what you or the company you worked for were doing and did not Blow the Whistle on them, you are GUILTY
2- Corporate Shields are declared retroactively Invalid.
3-If you actively engaged in Economic Pursuits with the goal of Enriching yourself at the Expense of Others, you are GUILTY.
4-If you loaned money to others at Usurious interest rates defined as say anything above 1%/mo, you are GUILTY
5-If you Invested in Corporations which you had Knowledge were engaged in activities destroying Mother Earth and endangering the lives of others, you are GUILTY

And you should recall that I agree with that conclusion. I was talking specifically about the Bill of Rights, though, which limits the arbitrary use of state-sanctioned force against the people. If OMMP is designed to circumvent the Bill of Rights, then it contains an implicit justification for its enemies to do the same.


I never said this would stop Violence from the Other Side of the line. They will commit Violent acts regardless of the Law anyhow, so this just provides for a Level Playing Field. Mano-a-Mano, and the Meek got the Numbers Advantage here. Once the Force Multiplier of Oil is out of the Game, the Good Guys WIN. Remember the Wisdom of Uncle Joe Stalin, "You Can't Make an Omelette without Breaking a Few Eggs."

Pray tell, how will the Court of the Inquisition (i.e. you and your cronies) do that? Is there an age limit? What about the 6 year old kid who seems to be a corrupted little brat? The Husband/Wife who materially supported the corruption without knowing, or that sat by and didn't do anything to stop their spouse? Or perhaps they did do something, but they just didn't do "enough"? How can we be sure that your torturous methods do not lead to false confessions, just like the Inquisition's?


I have great confidence in the Integrity of my Cronies, despite some Out of the Box ideas WRT Aliens, Jews, multi-Dimensional Space, and the absolute Value of Gold floating around amongst them. My own Personal Integrity is well documented by my willingness to stick to my Guns despite getting booted off half the Collapse Blogs on the Internet. Also, given the fact that I am about the ONLY Crony in the Crowd who supports this idea (with the exception of New Crony Karpatok, aka Xena, Warrior Princess) , there are Checks & Balances in the New Politburo on the Diner. LOL.

Far as Kids are concerned, they probably mostly can be Saved here by pulling them out of the Environment and doing Behavioral Modification, the Greed pathways are not so well set into their Neural Connections yet. Other older Family Members can be Individually Judged for the Level of their Complicity.

Far as Torture is concerned, that is only used once the Level of Guilt of the Individual has already been establishedby the Court of the Inquisition, and it already should be a pretty High Level of Guilt to warrant Torture. For instance, Jamie Dimon or Lloyd Blankfein almost certainly get the full 9 yards on the Torture end prior to being dispatched to the Great Beyond, unless of course they fully Repent, give up all their Wealth, agree to spending the rest of their lives scrubbing Cesspools in Penitence and Name some more Names. They ALL know other Guilty parties, so if they don't Name Names its off to the Rack until they do. If on the VERY slim chance Jamie Dimon does NOT know any other Guilty Parties to name, this is unfortunate for Jamie but as I said before, you can't make and Omelette without breaking a few eggs

Oh, another thing about legal systems - they should be designed to limit the use of subjectivity as much as possible. So if you insist on calling OMMP a legal system with "legal decisions", then it is a really shitty one.

And you are not cleaning a Kitchen, you are torturing and murdering people. Since you are human, you are not doing that without being consumed by emotions. You cannot dismiss that fact by analogizing it to cleaning a kitchen.


I already stipulated that you do not go into the Auto da Fe at all without a clear set of criteria as to what constitutes Guilt and what the appropriate Punishment for that Guilt is. So it is not "Murder", it is Capital Punishment if so deemed appropriate by the Court of the Inquisition. The Torture is just Eye for an Eye, Tooth for a Tooth stuff. I mean really, Starving People or people being Irradiated without their consent or people being Injected with nasty Vaccines loaded with Mercury are being Tortured all over the place here, Trit here documents that stuff all the time. Only the most complicit in this Biz get the Torture Treatment, and you gotta be pretty high up the ladder for it. You know, CEOs of BP, TEPCO, CEO of Goldman Sacks the Taxpayer, Chairman of Da Fed, POTUS, CIA Director, President of the EU, IMF and World Bank Directors, everybody who attended the Basel Conference in the last Decade, everybody above the level of Janitor who works for the BIS, the Trilateral Commission Members etc. The Inquisition isn't going to go after the Small Fry here with the Hammer, you start with the OBVIOUSLY and CLEARLY GUILTY at the visible Top of Pyramid, and you use them to lever your way into the the folks Behind the Curtain. There are AT LEAST 10,000 of these SCUMBAGS to start with and that will take plenty of time to work through the Docket.

As for sin and penitence, is it not you who is committing the ultimate sin - putting yourself in the role of God? According to the Bible, God is the only one who can know with absolute certainty who is Evil, and who has been saved through penitence and a change of hearts. And, He WILL cast his wrath on the former when the time comes. It is not man's role to dispense with that kind of Divine Justice.

RE wrote:
You can assume that if such a plan is undertaken that you are operating under God's direction and are so the tool of God in it's implementation, you are not God him/hers/itself. Far as whether it is Man's Role to dispense Divine Justice, that is a matter for God to decide. If God wants to use a man to dispense Divine Justice, it is his/her/its perogative to do so
.

Uh, no, we can't assume anything. Unless God speaks to us directly and guides us towards those actions, then we cannot assume we have God's blessing simply because we have incorporated our human understandings of sin and penitence. If anything, since we never predicated the value of OMMP on its ability to obtain God's approval, we can assume that we DON'T have it for the sake of this argument.


God works in Mysterious Ways, and exactly How He Speaks to us can't be determined here a priori. Perhaps God is speaking in such a way as to encourage an Inqusition here? If we don't undertake it, we would be Rejecting God.

In any event, in the ABSENCE of an Inquisition, stopping the progressive RAPE of Mother Earth and the endless TORTURE of the vast majority of the Population has not thusfar been possible through other more conventional means, so I suggest a change of direction here to hopefully align up better with God's Will.

We do know some of the consequences - innocent lives will be sacrificed and at least some of the people carrying out the Inquisition will start operating with less than pure motives, or perhaps even at cross-purposes. This is what ALWAYS happens, without fail. So let's not pretend that we don't know whether some of those things will happen. What we truly don't know is what the chances for success are, i.e. the chances of preventing future Fukushimas or Deepwater Horizons, but my educated guesstimate is that they will be slim to razor thin.


I never denied Innocent Lives will be lost here, in fact I explicitly said numerous times that "You cannot make an Omelette without Breaking a few Eggs". What you have to make a Judgement on is in WHICH scenario will MORE Innocent Lives be Lost, and in which scenario MORE of the Guilty will be Brought to Justice?

Best Evidence right now is that if we do NOT undertake the Inqusition, EVERYBODY WILL DIE, as in Homo Sapiens suffers an Extinction Level Event and we go the way of the Dinosaur. If we have to break some Eggs to stop that, so be it. We all KNOW here that MANY Innocents are losing their lives RIGHT NOW, AS WE SPEAK. No more Mr. Nice Guy while this is an ongoing WAR against J6P.

Bring on the Orkin Man.

RE
Last Edit: 11 months, 3 weeks ago by Reverse Engineer.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3317

  • ashvin
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Reverse Engineer wrote:


Did I say anywhere that the Inquisition should not make Legal Definitions here for what constitutes Crimes Against Humanity and what the appropriate Punsihments should be? I am all for developing a comprehensive Code to make these Definitions before beginning the Auto da Fe.

We can start on the Code of RE Hammurabi right here with 5 starter Principles:

1- If you were in a position of Authority with knowledge of the dangers of what you or the company you worked for were doing and did not Blow the Whistle on them, you are GUILTY
2- Corporate Shields are declared retroactively Invalid.
3-If you actively engaged in Economic Pursuits with the goal of Enriching yourself at the Expense of Others, you are GUILTY.
4-If you loaned money to others at Usurious interest rates defined as say anything above 1%/mo, you are GUILTY
5-If you Invested in Corporations which you had Knowledge were engaged in activities destroying Mother Earth and endangering the lives of others, you are GUILTY


Well damn... I may be guilty of #3 myself, seeing as how I regularly play poker.

Now you may give me a pass, because you are smart enough to understand that the people who give me their money are not really under any sort of coercion, do so of their own free will, start with a level playing field and I am not doing it to get RICH but rather to pay bills, but your over-zealous compatriots in newly-formed positions of authority within the Inquisition may not interpret my actions the same way. Sorry if I don't trust anyone with that kind of power to use it wisely...

I never said this would stop Violence from the Other Side of the line. They will commit Violent acts regardless of the Law anyhow, so this just provides for a Level Playing Field. Mano-a-Mano, and the Meek got the Numbers Advantage here. Once the Force Multiplier of Oil is out of the Game, the Good Guys WIN. Remember the Wisdom of Uncle Joe Stalin, "You Can't Make an Omelette without Breaking a Few Eggs."


I think you are over-estimating the number of the "Meek" here. Hundreds of millions, if not billions, of people could technically be guilty of the OMMP criminal code. All kinds of people who work for corporations could be guilty of #1, as long as they have authority over at least one other person at the company. #3 speaks for itself - of course no one will admit they were doing it to get rich, but it will be their word against the newly-appointed Righteous. And #5 could include anyone who has ever spent a penny on the products of those destructive corporations - why limit it to people who actually bought shares? I'm sure a good portion of the people reading TAE, DD and most other similar sites are guilty of #4 and #5 as well. When it's all said and done here, OMMP may end up doing the Illuminati's job for it.


Far as Kids are concerned, they probably mostly can be Saved here by pulling them out of the Environment and doing Behavioral Modification, the Greed pathways are not so well set into their Neural Connections yet. Other older Family Members can be Individually Judged for the Level of their Complicity.


I'm still waiting to hear an age cutoff... and what about the mentally ill? Do we have an IQ cutoff line too, do we follow the definitions of DSMIV, what?

I already stipulated that you do not go into the Auto da Fe at all without a clear set of criteria as to what constitutes Guilt and what the appropriate Punishment for that Guilt is. So it is not "Murder", it is Capital Punishment if so deemed appropriate by the Court of the Inquisition.


And my argument is that a "clear set of criteria" for what you propose to do is an oxymoron, a paradox, impossible.

The Inquisition isn't going to go after the Small Fry here with the Hammer, you start with the OBVIOUSLY and CLEARLY GUILTY at the visible Top of Pyramid, and you use them to lever your way into the the folks Behind the Curtain. There are AT LEAST 10,000 of these SCUMBAGS to start with and that will take plenty of time to work through the Docket.


Those people aren't stupid, though, They didn't get to those positions without knowing how to game the all of the laws, rules, and plans that were established to work against them. I suspect that's exactly what they will do with the OMMP, too. Set up a bunch of patsies to take the fall. By the time you make it to 10 of the real bad guys, the rest will be in hiding and actively leading you to all the wrong places and people. Actually, I would be suspect of OMMP as soon as I heard about it, because it may have already been co-opted by them before it got off the ground.

Fantasies about organizing it all quickly and implementing it simultaneously around the globe with an element of surprise are just that... fantasies.

God works in Mysterious Ways, and exactly How He Speaks to us can't be determined here a priori. Perhaps God is speaking in such a way as to encourage an Inqusition here? If we don't undertake it, we would be Rejecting God.

In any event, in the ABSENCE of an Inquisition, stopping the progressive RAPE of Mother Earth and the endless TORTURE of the vast majority of the Population has not thusfar been possible through other more conventional means, so I suggest a change of direction here to hopefully align up better with God's Will.


Does He really work in mysterious ways? I think that's just a catch phrase people like to use. By and large, if He exists, I imagine that He works in very straightforward ways. The Bible is replete with examples of God directly intervening in Earthly affairs and telling people exactly what He wanted them to do and when he wanted them to do it.

Perhaps the OMMP is not God's will, perhaps it's the opposite of His will. Maybe he is allowing this rape and suffering to continue to test the faith of humanity in Him and his promises for the future and see if they will obey the teachings of Jesus even when it seems they would be better off abandoning those teachings and taking matters into their own hands. Isn't that a possibility to consider, seeing as how it is a major theme of the Bible?

I never denied Innocent Lives will be lost here, in fact I explicitly said numerous times that "You cannot make an Omelette without Breaking a few Eggs". What you have to make a Judgement on is in WHICH scenario will MORE Innocent Lives be Lost, and in which scenario MORE of the Guilty will be Brought to Justice?

Best Evidence right now is that if we do NOT undertake the Inqusition, EVERYBODY WILL DIE, as in Homo Sapiens suffers an Extinction Level Event and we go the way of the Dinosaur. If we have to break some Eggs to stop that, so be it. We all KNOW here that MANY Innocents are losing their lives RIGHT NOW, AS WE SPEAK. No more Mr. Nice Guy while this is an ongoing WAR against J6P.


Well, for all of the reasons discussed, I disagree. I think the chances are very high that more innocent lives will be lost with the OMMP than without it, and, on top of that, by pursuing it we may condemn ourselves to physical and/or psychological damnation, either here on Earth for the rest of our lives or in the afterlife for all of eternity.
Last Edit: 11 months, 3 weeks ago by ashvin.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3318

RE! I just know you're intelligent enough--based on much of your writing--to see that it's impossible to line up all those guilty of "knowingly enriching myself at the expense of others". Every profit is at someone's expense. That is inherent in the definition: one cannot have profit without another's expense. If I sell someone a shirt I know he doesn't need, maybe catching him at a weak moment, I'd be guilty according to this edict! That is insane. Unworkable. Dangerous. Scary. Nonsenical. And certainly not the well- considered doomsday plan I have come to expect from you. Your contributions are too valuable to waste on such distractions.
Last Edit: 11 months, 3 weeks ago by skipbreakfast.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3319

ashvin wrote:


Well damn... I may be guilty of #3 myself, seeing as how I regularly play poker.


As I made CLEAR Ashvin, the Inqusition is NOT concerned with Small Fry who play Poker for a Living. We are going after the BIG BOYS. Waste of time, energy and the Legal Resources of the Inquisitors to go after Small Fry like you. We will be busy with much BIGGER Fish for a good while here. Might be a good idea though to start weaning yourself off this dependency on the Weakness and Stupidity of others to make your living though.


I think you are over-estimating the number of the "Meek" here. Hundreds of millions, if not billions, of people could technically be guilty of the OMMP criminal code. All kinds of people who work for corporations could be guilty of #1, as long as they have authority over at least one other person at the company. #3 speaks for itself - of course no one will admit they were doing it to get rich, but it will be their word against the newly-appointed Righteous. And #5 could include anyone who has ever spent a penny on the products of those destructive corporations - why limit it to people who actually bought shares? I'm sure a good portion of the people reading TAE, DD and most other similar sites are guilty of #4 and #5 as well. When it's all said and done here, OMMP may end up doing the Illuminati's job for it.


No, I am NOT overestimating the number of Meek, since I am droping a cutoff point here on initial Prosecutions and keeping it basically to the Top Visible end of the Pyramid.

Low Level Criminals are not Targeted here. The Inquisitors are not after the Drug Users or even the Street Dealers. We are after the King Pins. if you are a Dealer, you may be pulled in by the Inquisition and asked to Name some Names. Your Punishment and Penitence will probably be light if you cooperate with the Inqusition, just a few years scrubbing Cesspools probably. Only minor Torture, like being forced to listen to Rap Music 24/7 for a few days, Read Aloud the Text from People Magazine, spend a few days in a Rehab Program with Lindsay Lohan or worst of all be forced into a Shotgun Marriage with Kim Kardashian. LOL.

I'm still waiting to hear an age cutoff... and what about the mentally ill? Do we have an IQ cutoff line too, do we follow the definitions of DSMIV, what?


You can't make an arbitrary cutoff here, but it is not necessary to do so since Kids do not control large corporations like BP or TEPCO, and neither do Morons either.

If said kids happen to be Progeny of Vicious Criminals convicted of Crimes Against Humanity, they will be Orphaned and sent to Re-education Camps. Hoepfully they are not too far gone already. Long as they graduate their re-education and don't pull the same nasty stunts their parents did, they'll be fine.

And my argument is that a "clear set of criteria" for what you propose to do is an oxymoron, a paradox, impossible.


That could be said of ANY Legal System Ashvin. None of them are perfect without Loopholes. You do the best you can, eh?

Those people aren't stupid, though, They didn't get to those positions without knowing how to game the all of the laws, rules, and plans that were established to work against them. I suspect that's exactly what they will do with the OMMP, too. Set up a bunch of patsies to take the fall. By the time you make it to 10 of the real bad guys, the rest will be in hiding and actively leading you to all the wrong places and people. Actually, I would be suspect of OMMP as soon as I heard about it, because it may have already been co-opted by them before it got off the ground.


I never said they WERE Stupid Ashvin, which is why it is necessary to OUTSMART them! I'm Volunteering here in the effort I'm Certified Smart! I'd be happy to have you back me up also on this end as well. There are plenty of Meek out there with enough additional Smarts to make this battle on the Smarts level along with plenty to do the Fisticuffs necessary as well here. Once the force multiplier of Oil gets knocked down, should be a rout IMHO.

Fantasies about organizing it all quickly and implementing it simultaneously around the globe with an element of surprise are just that... fantasies.


Negative thinking IMHO. It probably cannot be done quick enough to Save the vast majority of the population, but it maybe possible to do it quickly enough to avoid an ELE. Gotta make the EFFORT anyhow.

Does He really work in mysterious ways? I think that's just a catch phrase people like to use. By and large, if He exists, I imagine that He works in very straightforward ways. The Bible is replete with examples of God directly intervening in Earthly affairs and telling people exactly what He wanted them to do and when he wanted them to do it.


Biblical Stories are IMHO mainly parables which may or may not represent God's will in all respects. For instance, all that stuff about how after 3 months a Slave Girl should willingly submit to her New master blah blah. Or Render Unto Caesar yadda yadda. Or Turn the Other Cheek. Representative of the time period, but not necessarily God's Will in perpetutity. You gotta be adaptible here to changing circumstances and be able to write NEW parables which further define God's Will at any given point in history.

Perhaps the OMMP is not God's will, perhaps it's the opposite of His will. Maybe he is allowing this rape and suffering to continue to test the faith of humanity in Him and his promises for the future and see if they will obey the teachings of Jesus even when it seems they would be better off abandoning those teachings and taking matters into their own hands. Isn't that a possibility to consider, seeing as how it is a major theme of the Bible?


Perhaps, but weighing the odds here, seems unlikely to me.

Well, for all of the reasons discussed, I disagree. I think the chances are very high that more innocent lives will be lost with the OMMP than without it, and, on top of that, by pursuing it we may condemn ourselves to physical and/or psychological damnation, either here on Earth for the rest of our lives or in the afterlife for all of eternity.


OBVIOUSLY we disagree on this Ashvin, otherwise we would not be going to such great lengths to justify our opposing viewpoints on the topic. Up to the Reader to decide who made the better case here.

My conclusion is despite the risks involved and the potential for great suffering to emerge as Blowback here from the Inqusition, it is the Better Alternative to acquiesing to the continued destruction of Mother Earth and the continued Torture and Death of Millions and probably soon to be BILLIONS of people. Confronted with THAT, IMHO you take the risk.

Bring on the Orkin Man.

RE
Last Edit: 11 months, 3 weeks ago by Reverse Engineer.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3320

skipbreakfast wrote:
RE! I just know you're intelligent enough--based on much of your writing--to see that it's impossible to line up all those guilty of "knowingly enriching myself at the expense of others". Every profit is at someone's expense. That is inherent in the definition: one cannot have profit without another's expense. If I sell someone a shirt I know he doesn't need, maybe catching him at a weak moment, I'd be guilty according to this edict! That is insane. Unworkable. Dangerous. Scary. Nonsenical. And certainly not the well- considered doomsday plan I have come to expect from you. Your contributions are too valuable to waste on such distractions.


SB, I clearly state that the Inquisition CANNOT hit on every last little Pipsqueak out there who runs a Small Biz to extract some profit from the Earth or the Labor of Others.

At small Power Levels, this process while generally speaking isn't very good (potlatch is better), it is more or less a level playing field until you get great accumulations of wealth and power. Once that happens, the whole system breaks down.

The Inquisition as I try to lay it out focuses down on the very BIGGEST Power Structures and the very LARGEST accumulations of the Wealth of Mother Earth, which in fact is God's Gift to ALL Mankind, not the Koch Brothers or George Soros or Bill Gates.

The Top of the Food Chain PREDATORS simply have become TOO POWERFUL, and the Ecosystem is breaking down as a result. I am trying to lay out a means by which the Little Fish can take the Battle to the Sharks and CONSUME them by virtue of the Power of Numbers and the willingness to be JUST as Vicious here in the Consumption paradigm, except in this version 1000 little Fishies all gang up on One Big Tuna and EAT IT ALIVE.

Little Fishies of course cannot do that, they don't have the BRAINS for it and they are not adapted to do so. Homo Sapiens though? Another Ball Game altogether. We CAN Gang Up, we CAN operate as Herd Animals as well as Pack Wolves. We CAN STAMPEDE, we CAN TRAMPLE the Wolves. ONLY though if we act in CONCERT and ONLY if we will KILL the Predators who threaten the SURVIVAL of the Herd.

This is NATURE in ACTION SB, and if you want to be Sheep consumed by the Wolves, that is your choice, but not mine. I am going to follow the Wildebeasts herein this parable, and I will do my best to get the rest of the Herd to STAMPEDE with me and Trample ALL the Predators in our Path. They simply will not know what HIT them when the STAMPEDE begins here.

Not in this Game to LOSE, in it to WIN. What are the High Cards I hold here? The POWER OF NUMBERS. Fratured though, separate the herd and hit on the Weak, the Predators win. Only when the Herd comes together as a WHOLE can the Weak be Protected and Defended from the Predators. The Biggest, the Smartest, the STRONGEST out on the Periphery, ready to do BATTLE with the Wolves, to STAMP and KICK and GORE them as necessary to defend the Weak. That is Nature, that is how the Herd WINS.

RE

Of Wildebeests and Wolves 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3321



I have Republished this entire Debate including the OP and sadly excluding the post Ashvin accidentally deleted as a Feature Article on the Diner Blog under the title Of Wildebeests and Wolves

RE
Last Edit: 11 months, 3 weeks ago by Reverse Engineer.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3333

  • ashvin
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[quote="Reverse Engineer" post=3319]ashvin wrote:


As I made CLEAR Ashvin, the Inqusition is NOT concerned with Small Fry who play Poker for a Living. We are going after the BIG BOYS. Waste of time, energy and the Legal Resources of the Inquisitors to go after Small Fry like you. We will be busy with much BIGGER Fish for a good while here. Might be a good idea though to start weaning yourself off this dependency on the Weakness and Stupidity of others to make your living though.


No, what you made clear is that NO ONE can escape the wrath of the Inquisition when it really gets going. Yes, you will obviously want to target the king pins at first, but you will find that the rot of corruption extends much deeper in this system. There is no system without the active and passive complicity of billions, and if you think the king pins won't amass an army of the complicit on their side when all of these Rightheous Crusades go down, then you are sorely mistaken.

No, I am NOT overestimating the number of Meek, since I am droping a cutoff point here on initial Prosecutions and keeping it basically to the Top Visible end of the Pyramid.

Low Level Criminals are not Targeted here. The Inquisitors are not after the Drug Users or even the Street Dealers. We are after the King Pins. if you are a Dealer, you may be pulled in by the Inquisition and asked to Name some Names. Your Punishment and Penitence will probably be light if you cooperate with the Inqusition, just a few years scrubbing Cesspools probably.

...


You can't make an arbitrary cutoff here, but it is not necessary to do so since Kids do not control large corporations like BP or TEPCO, and neither do Morons either.

If said kids happen to be Progeny of Vicious Criminals convicted of Crimes Against Humanity, they will be Orphaned and sent to Re-education Camps. Hoepfully they are not too far gone already. Long as they graduate their re-education and don't pull the same nasty stunts their parents did, they'll be fine.


You are wafting all over the place here and you know it. In one place you have cut off points, and in others you believe they are arbitrary and cannot be used. It is clear that you are making this shit up as you go along - the ridiculously vague criminal code, the "initial prosecutions", the top of the pyramid, the low-level torture and scrubbing of cesspools, the re-education camps, etc., etc. Trust me, I know it's fun to play Devil's Advocate - that's a part of what I'm doing in this argument too (although you may be doing it a bit more literally ).

But the other part is out of genuine concern about the ideas people will get in their heads when they are seduced by fantasies such as yours. You know just as well as I do that your hyper-idealistic plan will not come to pass, ever... UNLESS, it is undertaken by an ignorant mob following a charismatic leader that has convinced them it is in their interests to kill off large swaths of people who represent the Old Order. Then you will get your OMMP, but who knows, you may end up being one of the roaches that gets exterminated.

Meet the New Boss, Same as the Old Boss.

That could be said of ANY Legal System Ashvin. None of them are perfect without Loopholes. You do the best you can, eh?


Yes, that could be said of any legal system operating at the complex scale of global human civilization. Our aim should not be to replicate those flawed systems or come up with new ones at the same scale, but to completely down-size the scale of operation. Your ever-evolving OMMP is a worldwide system of subjective "laws" that seeks to enact a "righteous" genocide in the name of protecting the helpless masses, and usher in a new era of peace and stability.

I never said they WERE Stupid Ashvin, which is why it is necessary to OUTSMART them! I'm Volunteering here in the effort I'm Certified Smart! I'd be happy to have you back me up also on this end as well. There are plenty of Meek out there with enough additional Smarts to make this battle on the Smarts level along with plenty to do the Fisticuffs necessary as well here. Once the force multiplier of Oil gets knocked down, should be a rout IMHO.


Sometimes it's smarter to recognize that the ends don't justify the means, and that success can be had in more ways than one. To sacrifice one's vengeful bloodlust for the good of the human soul, even when the former is convincingly dressed up as a humanitarian act. Your OMMP will play right into their hands of controlled depopulation. Remember, they NEED a justification for top-down, centralized enslavement and genocide of the masses, and proposals along the lines of OMMP will give it to them. A rout, indeed.

Negative thinking IMHO. It probably cannot be done quick enough to Save the vast majority of the population, but it maybe possible to do it quickly enough to avoid an ELE. Gotta make the EFFORT anyhow.


Realistic thinking. We don't have to make the effort - that is the point of free will and conscious decisions. The OMMP already sounds like a situation in which people will be told "if you don't support the effort, you will be responsible for an ELE that is certain to occur". A false dichotomy along the lines of "bail out the banks or watch the world economy be vaporized", except even more extreme.

Biblical Stories are IMHO mainly parables which may or may not represent God's will in all respects. For instance, all that stuff about how after 3 months a Slave Girl should willingly submit to her New master blah blah. Or Render Unto Caesar yadda yadda. Or Turn the Other Cheek. Representative of the time period, but not necessarily God's Will in perpetutity. You gotta be adaptible here to changing circumstances and be able to write NEW parables which further define God's Will at any given point in history.


Another BS tactic used by people to subvert Biblical law and the teachings of Jesus - just say that it is all filled with symbolic parables and open to endless interpretation. It is no coincidence that the Roman Catholic Church kept the Bible from the people when it officially adopted Christianity - it wanted man-made religious/political/economic traditions that were ultimately geared towards retribution and war to overrule the very obvious and very clear teachings of love, forgiveness and peace found in the Books themselves. The truths laid out by Jesus as God's human incarnation are meant to be eternal, and you cannot use Him to justify goals that are in opposition to those truths by erroneously claiming they are "adaptable" to the times.
Last Edit: 11 months, 3 weeks ago by ashvin.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3335

ashvin wrote:


No, what you made clear is that NO ONE can escape the wrath of the Inquisition when it really gets going. Yes, you will obviously want to target the king pins at first, but you will find that the rot of corruption extends much deeper in this system. There is no system without the active and passive complicity of billions, and if you think the king pins won't amass an army of the complicit on their side when all of these Rightheous Crusades go down, then you are sorely mistaken.


No, the thesis that it will continue in perpetuity is yours, not mine. The corruption and rot go pretty deep I will grant you, but eventually you will work your way down to the point the kitchen is clean enough to cook in again.

I also am quite SURE the Army of Evil will amass itself, which is why the Army of Good better start getting ready here to go Mano-a-Mano with the AoE in a No Rules, Take No Prisoners Final Battle for ALL the Marbles.

You are wafting all over the place here and you know it. In one place you have cut off points, and in others you believe they are arbitrary and cannot be used. It is clear that you are making this shit up as you go along - the ridiculously vague criminal code, the "initial prosecutions", the top of the pyramid, the low-level torture and scrubbing of cesspools, the re-education camps, etc., etc. Trust me, I know it's fun to play Devil's Advocate - that's a part of what I'm doing in this argument too (although you may be doing it a bit more literally ).


Is there a Rule here against Wafting and Making Shit Up as you go along? I was not aware of any such rule here.

In any event, the Cutoffs being made here are Monetary ones, not Age or Intelligence ones. Not going after Kids or Retards. Going after PIGMEN.

But the other part is out of genuine concern about the ideas people will get in their heads when they are seduced by fantasies such as yours. You know just as well as I do that your hyper-idealistic plan will not come to pass, ever... UNLESS, it is undertaken by an ignorant mob following a charismatic leader that has convinced them it is in their interests to kill off large swaths of people who represent the Old Order. Then you will get your OMMP, but who knows, you may end up being one of the roaches that gets exterminated.


I won't specualte on the likelihood of the Inquisition coming to pass or who might lead it either. The Track Record for such things is rather muddy overall, but I would say that the general results of the French Revolution and the Reign of Terror were overall an improvement over the Monarchy that preceeded it. Also I would say that although certainly corrupt in the aftermath, it was an Improvement over in Russia when Nicholas and Alexandra Romanoff were filled full of lead in a Ruskie basement

As to myself being pulled in front of the Inquisition? Possible of course, but a risk I am willing to take as a last ditch effort to Save Mother Earth and avoid an ELE for Homo Sapiens.

Yes, that could be said of any legal system operating at the complex scale of global human civilization. Our aim should not be to replicate those flawed systems or come up with new ones at the same scale, but to completely down-size the scale of operation. Your ever-evolving OMMP is a worldwide system of subjective "laws" that seeks to enact a "righteous" genocide in the name of protecting the helpless masses, and usher in a new era of peace and stability.


Ever evolving is important in order to adapt to changing circumstances.

I do agree of course that we need to shrink back to smaller more sustainable political groupings and legal systems of course. The Inquisition is part of the Catabolic process of the large systems before a new Anabolic period or Better Tomorrow can begin.

Sometimes it's smarter to recognize that the ends don't justify the means, and that success can be had in more ways than one. To sacrifice one's vengeful bloodlust for the good of the human soul, even when the former is convincingly dressed up as a humanitarian act. Your OMMP will play right into their hands of controlled depopulation. Remember, they NEED a justification for top-down, centralized enslavement and genocide of the masses, and proposals along the lines of OMMP will give it to them. A rout, indeed.


Sometimes perhaps, not this time.

I disagree of course, run correctly the Inquisition will take out the Masters and Free the Slaves, not the other way round that you project. Of course, Inquisiton Management is a difficult thing, but I never made the case this would be easy either.

Realistic thinking. We don't have to make the effort - that is the point of free will and conscious decisions. The OMMP already sounds like a situation in which people will be told "if you don't support the effort, you will be responsible for an ELE that is certain to occur". A false dichotomy along the lines of "bail out the banks or watch the world economy be vaporized", except even more extreme.


In the case of the Banks, it isn't a False Dichotomy. If the Banks aren't Bailed out, the World economy WILL vaporize! No Letters of Credit, no credible functioning Money, no Oil trade you can go on and on here with this. Nobody has put forth a credible plan to work in the aftermath of a systemic banking collapse, and no I don't think coining up all the Tungsten in Fort Knox will work nor do I think non-Debt based money in a Resource Based Economy will work either, but those are long debates all of their own.

As to whether we are on the road now to an ELE, I won't answer that with words, one picture will suffice.


Another BS tactic used by people to subvert Biblical law and the teachings of Jesus - just say that it is all filled with symbolic parables and open to endless interpretation. It is no coincidence that the Roman Catholic Church kept the Bible from the people when it officially adopted Christianity - it wanted man-made religious/political/economic traditions that were ultimately geared towards retribution and war to overrule the very obvious and very clear teachings of love, forgiveness and peace found in the Books themselves. The truths laid out by Jesus as God's human incarnation are meant to be eternal, and you cannot use Him to justify goals that are in opposition to those truths by erroneously claiming they are "adaptable" to the times.


OK, add BS to Wafting and Making Shit Up here as your stock in trade arguments. AKA pitch out some Napalm Lite.

All the Biblical Stories may or may not all be true. I am not convinced for instance that Moses parted the Red Sea or that Jesus Walked on Water either. One has to read the Bible with some Critical thinking, you can't buy the whole thing as Absolute Truth. At the very least there have been too many centuries worth of Revisions to it to be 100% sure of what was written down in the first place. Besides that, said stories were written by observers who you may or may not believe were Prophets of God, but even so saw the world through their own flawed Human Eyes.

It is incumbent on the Sons and Daughters of God CURRENTLY walking the Earth to respond to the challenges of our own time, which all are not precisely the same ones that were apparent when the Bible was written. For instance, there were no Nuke Plants sitting around as Time Bombs waiting to go off then. Nor were there 7B people inhabiting the Earth either. In the Bible, God's Word was to "Go Forth and Multiply". Is that what we need to do NOW? Our time has different challenges to deal with, and we must find out own way to respond to them. Every last answer is not written down in the Bible or apparent in the words of Jesus Christ either.

I most certainly understand the risks involved here, but I am pretty sure Turning the Other Cheek is not the solution we need here right now, and Jesus suggested that one also. Methinks it is time to FIGHT BACK, not turn the Other Cheek.

RE

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3336

  • ashvin
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Reverse Engineer wrote:

No, the thesis that it will continue in perpetuity is yours, not mine. The corruption and rot go pretty deep I will grant you, but eventually you will work your way down to the point the kitchen is clean enough to cook in again.

I also am quite SURE the Army of Evil will amass itself, which is why the Army of Good better start getting ready here to go Mano-a-Mano with the AoE in a No Rules, Take No Prisoners Final Battle for ALL the Marbles.

...

Is there a Rule here against Wafting and Making Shit Up as you go along? I was not aware of any such rule here.

In any event, the Cutoffs being made here are Monetary ones, not Age or Intelligence ones. Not going after Kids or Retards. Going after PIGMEN.


Look, the point I was trying to emphasize with the questions about cutoffs and what not was that, with them, your actions will be arbitrary and unsuccessful, but without them, your actions will necessarily harm a significant number of innocent people. And I believe you have already stipulated to the latter, so there's really no point debating it further.

Innocent people and not-so-guilty people WILL be sacrificed in the OMMP. You believe it is a necessary evil, and I believe it is an unacceptable evil. Other people can decide for themselves.

I won't specualte on the likelihood of the Inquisition coming to pass or who might lead it either. The Track Record for such things is rather muddy overall, but I would say that the general results of the French Revolution and the Reign of Terror were overall an improvement over the Monarchy that preceeded it. Also I would say that although certainly corrupt in the aftermath, it was an Improvement over in Russia when Nicholas and Alexandra Romanoff were filled full of lead in a Ruskie basement


Again, I don't think the track record is very "muddy" at all, especially in the 20th century, which is more applicable to our times due to the scale of reactionary movements in the age of fossil fuels.

As to myself being pulled in front of the Inquisition? Possible of course, but a risk I am willing to take as a last ditch effort to Save Mother Earth and avoid an ELE for Homo Sapiens.


What if it's not just you, but everyone that you care about? What if it's an entire community of people where you happen to live? At what point will you say, "enough is enough", the means no longer justify the stated (but not certain) ends? Even if you are intellectually, emotionally and spiritually capable of drawing that line, MOST PEOPLE are not. That's just the reality of the situation we are in.

Ever evolving is important in order to adapt to changing circumstances.


I know this is not exactly what we were talking about in this particular portion of the debate (OOMP as an ever-evolving plan), but as a partial aside:

The concept of evolution is a dangerous weapon when it is consciously applied to human societies as an end goal. I am highly suspicious of anyone who claims their policies are geared towards "evolving" the human species over short time frames. The Eugenics policies of the 20th century were a direct result of that mentality.

I do agree of course that we need to shrink back to smaller more sustainable political groupings and legal systems of course. The Inquisition is part of the Catabolic process of the large systems before a new Anabolic period or Better Tomorrow can begin.


Ah yes, the "Better Tomorrow" - promised by Evil Dictators implementing genocidal policies since time immemorial.

Sometimes perhaps, not this time.

I disagree of course, run correctly the Inquisition will take out the Masters and Free the Slaves, not the other way round that you project. Of course, Inquisiton Management is a difficult thing, but I never made the case this would be easy either.


Well you admitted above that you cannot speculate on if, when or how exactly the OMMP would come to pass, or WHO would end up leading it, so would it be fair to say that it's POSSIBLE that the OMMP, when actually implemented in the real world, would be led by misleading forces that want to accomplish the opposite of what you want to accomplish? That's the point I am getting at.

In the case of the Banks, it isn't a False Dichotomy. If the Banks aren't Bailed out, the World economy WILL vaporize! No Letters of Credit, no credible functioning Money, no Oil trade you can go on and on here with this. Nobody has put forth a credible plan to work in the aftermath of a systemic banking collapse, and no I don't think coining up all the Tungsten in Fort Knox will work nor do I think non-Debt based money in a Resource Based Economy will work either, but those are long debates all of their own.


Yes, those are issues to be discussed in their own right. The false dichotomy I was referring to is a cognitive/psychological one, designed to make people believe that bailing out the banks is the ONLY option for humanity. Kind of like your argument for OMMP is designed to make people believe that an ELE is inevitable without it. The logic here is that, if we do not act soon to implement something like the OMMP, more Fukushima type events will keep occurring until humanity is wiped out. Who knows, you may be right - extinction may be humanity's ultimate destiny at this point, at least in the physical sense. But even that fact doesn't necessitate OMMP as our ONLY option to deal with that reality.

OK, add BS to Wafting and Making Shit Up here as your stock in trade arguments. AKA pitch out some Napalm Lite.

All the Biblical Stories may or may not all be true. I am not convinced for instance that Moses parted the Red Sea or that Jesus Walked on Water either. One has to read the Bible with some Critical thinking, you can't buy the whole thing as Absolute Truth. At the very least there have been too many centuries worth of Revisions to it to be 100% sure of what was written down in the first place. Besides that, said stories were written by observers who you may or may not believe were Prophets of God, but even so saw the world through their own flawed Human Eyes.

It is incumbent on the Sons and Daughters of God CURRENTLY walking the Earth to respond to the challenges of our own time, which all are not precisely the same ones that were apparent when the Bible was written. For instance, there were no Nuke Plants sitting around as Time Bombs waiting to go off then. Nor were there 7B people inhabiting the Earth either. In the Bible, God's Word was to "Go Forth and Multiply". Is that what we need to do NOW? Our time has different challenges to deal with, and we must find out own way to respond to them. Every last answer is not written down in the Bible or apparent in the words of Jesus Christ either.

I most certainly understand the risks involved here, but I am pretty sure Turning the Other Cheek is not the solution we need here right now, and Jesus suggested that one also. Methinks it is time to FIGHT BACK, not turn the Other Cheek.


The reason why we are talking about Jesus and the Bible is because you essentially brought them up as justifications for your plan, in so far as you can mitigate the genocidal effects of it by offering people the opportunity to repent for their sins.

I am not arguing for the correctness or incorrectness of what the Bible says happened and what Jesus taught. I am arguing for representing those things accurately, rather than manipulating them for our own arguments. The Bible consists of perhaps the most well-preserved and widely-circulated ancient texts that we know about. By studying those texts and comparing them to each other, we can determine by and large exactly what it was saying, in terms of past events, spiritual teachings and future prophecies.

You don't have to agree with it, but you cannot deny that it is, in fact, saying those things. I am by no means a Biblical Scholar, but there are quite a few Biblical Scholars that I have read and respect (some of whom aren't even Christian), and they all agree that the Bible is quite straightforward and should be taken literally. That is something the institutions of the Church have not done well at all, and we should not strive to repeat their mistakes (or intentional deceptions).
Last Edit: 11 months, 3 weeks ago by ashvin.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3337

ashvin wrote:


Innocent people and not-so-guilty people WILL be sacrificed in the OMMP. You believe it is a necessary evil, and I believe it is an unacceptable evil. Other people can decide for themselves.


This pretty much is the Core Argument here, and as I stated well up the page here, it's a matter of weighing how many Innocents will die and how many Guilty will be brought to Justice in different scenarios. What I put to the reader here is that MORE Innocents will Die and Fewer of the Guilty will be brought to Justice without the Inquisition.


Again, I don't think the track record is very "muddy" at all, especially in the 20th century, which is more applicable to our times due to the scale of reactionary movements in the age of fossil fuels.


Nicholas and Alexandra Romanoff were filled full of Lead in 1917. Far as I know, that is part of the 20th Century.

What if it's not just you, but everyone that you care about? What if it's an entire community of people where you happen to live? At what point will you say, "enough is enough", the means no longer justify the stated (but not certain) ends? Even if you are intellectually, emotionally and spiritually capable of drawing that line, MOST PEOPLE are not. That's just the reality of the situation we are in.


You know, entire communities of people are being wiped out ALREADY as we SPEAK. So to argue that the Inquisition would CAUSE something which is already ongoing and accelerating is simply a crock of shit.

When you have a really BIG Forest Fire raging and sprinkling water on it isn't stopping it, what do you do? You set a BACKFIRE and let it burn also. You kill a lot of Innocent Trees that way but in the end you save most of the Forest. Of course you can argue that it would be better of to let the whole forest burn down more often, but inthe case of Homo Sapiens if it all burns down this time its probably never grwoing back again.

I know this is not exactly what we were talking about in this particular portion of the debate (OOMP as an ever-evolving plan), but as a partial aside:

The concept of evolution is a dangerous weapon when it is consciously applied to human societies as an end goal. I am highly suspicious of anyone who claims their policies are geared towards "evolving" the human species over short time frames. The Eugenics policies of the 20th century were a direct result of that mentality.


Evolution is a dangerous concept, so is Creationism. Accepting that things are immutable and not subject to change is itself a very dangerous concept. Danger lurks about us everywhere. You just gotta stay on your toes and keep your eyes open.

Ah yes, the "Better Tomorrow" - promised by Evil Dictators implementing genocidal policies since time immemorial.


Back to the Evil Dictators you see lurking around every Street Corner. How about Joan of Arc? Was she an Evil Dictator? What about Fidel? Was he an Evil Dictator? How about Hugo Chavez? is he an Evil Dictator? Dictators often do unpleasant things, but they aren't all Evil either.

Well you admitted above that you cannot speculate on if, when or how exactly the OMMP would come to pass, or WHO would end up leading it, so would it be fair to say that it's POSSIBLE that the OMMP, when actually implemented in the real world, would be led by misleading forces that want to accomplish the opposite of what you want to accomplish? That's the point I am getting at.


Yes it is Possible. No guarantees, particularly in a risky situation like this. However, when you have millions being murdered every day through chemical, biological and nuclear poisoning, not to mention non-stop wars all over the Planet, you gotta take some risks here.

The logic here is that, if we do not act soon to implement something like the OMMP, more Fukushima type events will keep occurring until humanity is wiped out. Who knows, you may be right - extinction may be humanity's ultimate destiny at this point, at least in the physical sense. But even that fact doesn't necessitate OMMP as our ONLY option to deal with that reality.


When somebody comes up with a better Option with a greater chance of success I'll jump right on board. Meanwhile, its the best option I can come up with. If you have a better one, I am all ears. I'll deconstruct it and demonstrate why it has a lower potential for success.


The reason why we are talking about Jesus and the Bible is because you essentially brought them up as justifications for your plan, in so far as you can mitigate the genocidal effects of it by offering people the opportunity to repent for their sins.


No, I didn't bring up Jesus, you did. I never use Jesus as justification since I am not a Christian. I do use the Bible as reference material and as a possible Window to understand God better, but I don;t buy the whole ball of wax lock stock and barrel.

I am not arguing for the correctness or incorrectness of what the Bible says happened and what Jesus taught. I am arguing for representing those things accurately, rather than manipulating them for our own arguments. The Bible consists of perhaps the most well-preserved and widely-circulated ancient texts that we know about. By studying those texts and comparing them to each other, we can determine by and large exactly what it was saying, in terms of past events, spiritual teachings and future prophecies.

You don't have to agree with it, but you cannot deny that it is, in fact, saying those things. I am by no means a Biblical Scholar, but there are quite a few Biblical Scholars that I have read and respect (some of whom aren't even Christian), and they all agree that the Bible is quite straightforward and should be taken literally. That is something the institutions of the Church have not done well at all, and we should not strive to repeat their mistakes (or intentional deceptions).


Biblical scholars can "all agree that the Bible is quite straightforward and should be taken literally", but regardless of what Triv would call an appeal to authority argument, I am sorry, I just don't buy that Moses parted the Red Sea or that Jesus walked on Water.

I do believe though that quite a bit of the History in the Bible is correct, including the fact that a Preacher named Jesus likely was walking around Rome and the periphery during some exceedingly hard times. Son of God though? No moreso than you or I are Sons of God in all probability. Do you take LITERALLY that Jesus was the Son of God? This may be the source of our differing perceptions of the Bible.

RE
Last Edit: 11 months, 3 weeks ago by Reverse Engineer.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3347

  • ashvin
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Reverse Engineer wrote:
Nicholas and Alexandra Romanoff were filled full of Lead in 1917. Far as I know, that is part of the 20th Century.


If you are claiming the Bolshevik Revolutions and the following travesties that took place in the Soviet Union under Lenin and Stalin were overall good things for humanity, similar to how the OMMP will be, then I think you have made my argument for me.

You know, entire communities of people are being wiped out ALREADY as we SPEAK. So to argue that the Inquisition would CAUSE something which is already ongoing and accelerating is simply a crock of shit.

When you have a really BIG Forest Fire raging and sprinkling water on it isn't stopping it, what do you do? You set a BACKFIRE and let it burn also. You kill a lot of Innocent Trees that way but in the end you save most of the Forest. Of course you can argue that it would be better of to let the whole forest burn down more often, but inthe case of Homo Sapiens if it all burns down this time its probably never grwoing back again.


This is just circular logic. You are attacking my critiques of OMMP by assuming the very conclusion that I am trying to refute. My argument is that it's NOT like setting a backfire, it is like setting a completely different forest on fire, using the very same accelerants that were used by the people who set the first forest on fire. At the very least, it is like adding fuel to an ongoing fire.

Back to the Evil Dictators you see lurking around every Street Corner. How about Joan of Arc? Was she an Evil Dictator? What about Fidel? Was he an Evil Dictator? How about Hugo Chavez? is he an Evil Dictator? Dictators often do unpleasant things, but they aren't all Evil either.


I didn't say that every leader who promises their people a better future are Evil. I was just pointing out that many Dictators who can easily be classified as Evil have used that promise over the centuries to justify very radical and aggressive policies, and especially in the 20th century when those policies could be implemented at large scales, like I emphasized before. I'm thinking Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot here. Whether or not these people were actually motivated by "evil" is pretty irrelevant here. The consequences of their actions speak for themselves.

When somebody comes up with a better Option with a greater chance of success I'll jump right on board. Meanwhile, its the best option I can come up with. If you have a better one, I am all ears. I'll deconstruct it and demonstrate why it has a lower potential for success.


OK, I'll give it a shot. The Evil People at the very top of the pyramid you seek to destroy are Satanists/Luciferians, right? They are deeply into the process of drawing energy/power from Satanic rituals, and whether or not Satan is real, those practices seemed to have worked for them over the years. Perhaps we should think about drawing on spiritual energies ourselves as a way of combating the evil forces. Fight fire with fire, right? What better way than to engage in spiritual warfare! Come to think of it... that's exactly what a lot of people are doing right now, both Christians and non-Christians.


No, I didn't bring up Jesus, you did. I never use Jesus as justification since I am not a Christian. I do use the Bible as reference material and as a possible Window to understand God better, but I don;t buy the whole ball of wax lock stock and barrel.


You didn't bring up Jesus specifically, but after I accused you of committing the ultimate sin by trying to dispense Divine Justice in your plan, you responded in defense by saying that what you are doing may actually be God's plan. I proceeded to refute that by saying it goes against the teachings of the Bible and Jesus.

Biblical scholars can "all agree that the Bible is quite straightforward and should be taken literally", but regardless of what Triv would call an appeal to authority argument, I am sorry, I just don't buy that Moses parted the Red Sea or that Jesus walked on Water.

I do believe though that quite a bit of the History in the Bible is correct, including the fact that a Preacher named Jesus likely was walking around Rome and the periphery during some exceedingly hard times. Son of God though? No moreso than you or I are Sons of God in all probability. Do you take LITERALLY that Jesus was the Son of God? This may be the source of our differing perceptions of the Bible.


You are missing the point here. It is irrelevant whether Moses actually parted the Red Sea or Jesus performed miracles. What is relevant is what the the spiritual teachings of Christianity are, based on a thorough examination of the historical/textual evidence. Our perceptions on that shouldn't differ any more than they differ on what any other religion teaches, or on what any other ancient documents have said. I only brought this up to refute your assertion that OMMP could be the plan of God from the Bible - I don't think TRUE believers would take kindly to using their faith as justification for genocide, no matter how well thought out it is.
Last Edit: 11 months, 3 weeks ago by ashvin.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3348

You didn't answer the question. Do you tke LITERALLY that Jesus was the Son of God?

RE

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3349

  • ashvin
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Reverse Engineer wrote:
You didn't answer the question. Do you tke LITERALLY that Jesus was the Son of God?

RE


Your question actually has two different meanings, but I will go ahead and answer both of them.

1) According to Christianity and the Bible, Jesus was LITERALLY the Son of God, which is really the equivalent of God Himself. I absolutely do not believe that the New Testament Gospels were documenting the life of a normal human being that existed in history. They were not using metaphors or anything like that when they described the miracles he performed.

2) As to my personal beliefs, I DON'T KNOW and I don't pretend to know for certain whether God exists and whether Jesus was the Son of God. I have not reached any firm conclusions on those things one way or the other. It most certainly is not outside the realm of possibility for me.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3350

Ashvin wrote:


Your question actually has two different meanings, but I will go ahead and answer both of them.

1) According to Christianity and the Bible, Jesus was LITERALLY the Son of God, which is really the equivalent of God Himself. I absolutely do not believe that the New Testament Gospels were documenting the life of a normal human being that existed in history. They were not using metaphors or anything like that when they described the miracles he performed.

2) As to my personal beliefs, I DON'T KNOW and I don't pretend to know for certain whether God exists and whether Jesus was the Son of God. I have not reached any firm conclusions on those things one way or the other. It most certainly is not outside the realm of possibility for me.


Since you do not know for sure whether God exists or if Jesus was the Son of God, you can't be sure the Bible is the Literal Truth. Neither am I sure whether it is literal truth or not, but I suspect many things in it are not.

You seem to believe some spiritual teachings are literal truth, and then you also cite 'experts" who claim the whole thing is literal truth. It's a fairly confused position you are taking overall Ashvin.

My take on the Bible is that it reveals many things about the Human condition and is probably the best still remaining source of History from about 4000 BC to around the time the New Testament got written, thereafter there are a lot of other texts to work from also. My Illuminati Spawn college girlfriend was an expert in this stuff, she was fluent in Ancient Greek and Latin so it was subject of many lively discussions between us in those years.

Aynhow, I am no Biblical Scholar by any means, I look for meaning in the Bible and what ring true I use, what does not I look at mainly as parable or misperceptions by the writers or translators.

Far as the Bolshevik Revolution and its aftermath is concerned, I never made the case that it ended up all that well, just that it was an improvement for the Ruskies over lives under the Romanoffs which consisted of Serfdom (your hated Slavery of the explicit kind) and fairly regular Pogroms. As to a comparative numerical accounting goes of whether more Innocents were sent to the Great Beyond by Uncle Joe Stalin or the Romanoff family going back to Peter the Great, I can't answer that for sure, but I would bet on a percentage of population basis at any given time the Romanoffs were responsible for more deaths than Stalin was.

On the Backfire analogy, clearly we disagree, this is NOT a "new fire", it is set SPECIFICALLY to combat an already ongoing conflagration. Not even setting the fire in a new forest either, setting it in all the places where the fire currently rages out of control. My analogy works better than yours does Ashvin, hands down here.

Far as your selective choices go of Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot et al go as representative of the Evil Dictator outcome, it remains a possibility but does not HAVE to be the outcome. All I need to do is demonstrate ONE instance of a Dictator who improved the lives of the people he ruled over to show this outcome is not inevitable. I think Fidel Castro does that pretty well by his lonesome. There is little doubt that quite a few Innocents were sent to the Great Beyond when Castro took over, but on balance things mostly were better for the Cubans. At least they didn't get raped like the Haitians did.

Considering "drawing on Spiritual energies" to combat the Forces of Evil, here you are starting to sound like Ben expecting to get an answer from the 5th Dimension. What you are saying in essence is that we should all just PRAY together here, and Kumbaya all will be well. I don't buy this as a solution, as you say people are Praying RIGHT NOW for this insanity to end, but it AIN'T ENDING. I suggest a more terrestrial based approach and will leave the Spirit world to you and the 5th Dimension to Ben.

Finally, I am glad you are beginning to see my approach as "well thought out" rather than "making shit up as I go along". I've been working on this theory/plan for well over 4 years now and trying to noodle out alternatives also to what obviously is a pretty extreme idea. It is ALSO true though that I make shit up all the time as I go along here, but that is just part of being adaptible to changing circumstances and different arguments thrown at me. You are an astoundingly good opponent in such a Chess game, and I really do appreciate the time you have taken to engage me thusfar.

So as of now, neither of us have resigned our positions, and we are somewhere in the Middle Game now. Your move. The Clock is running.

RE

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3351

  • ashvin
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Reverse Engineer wrote:


Since you do not know for sure whether God exists or if Jesus was the Son of God, you can't be sure the Bible is the Literal Truth. Neither am I sure whether it is literal truth or not, but I suspect many things in it are not.

You seem to believe some spiritual teachings are literal truth, and then you also cite 'experts" who claim the whole thing is literal truth. It's a fairly confused position you are taking overall Ashvin.


OK, here is a simple example:

Karl Marx developed a theory of how political economies evolve over time, how feudalism led to capitalism, and how capitalism would break down over time. Now we can disagree with his interpretation of historical events, but we cannot dispute the fact that HE BELIEVED that's how it went down. Looking at all of his writings as a whole, it is indisputable that he was talking about feudalism and capitalism and communism literally, and not as some metaphor for something else.

Similarly, I do not think you can pick and choose what you think is literal and what you think is parable from the authors of the Biblical texts, just because some things jive with what you believe and some things don't. With regards to Jesus and his words/action, either the Gospels of his apostles were right or wrong - but they said what they meant and meant what they said. I do not believe we can do this:

I look for meaning in the Bible and what ring true I use, what does not I look at mainly as parable or misperceptions by the writers or translators.


Gotta run to the gym now... so I'll complete my move later.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3352

ashvin wrote:

Similarly, I do not think you can pick and choose what you think is literal and what you think is parable from the authors of the Biblical texts, just because some things jive with what you believe and some things don't. With regards to Jesus and his words/action, either the Gospels of his apostles were right or wrong - but they said what they meant and meant what they said. I do not believe we can do this.


Of course we can pick and choose what to use and what not to use in an argument. You do it every time you write an article here and snippet out quotes from other authors. To support your arguments, you select out quotes from other Bloggers who have a smilar POV or take on the situation you do. To undermine the opposition, you select out quotes which are so egregiously STUPID they make the opposition look ridiculous.

Why should the Bible be any different? Because it is ostensibly the Word of God? There are MANY authors who contributed to the Bible, consider them the Bloggers of their time. Some of them may have truly been Prophets inspired by Divine Direction guiding their Keyboard Fingers, others may simply have been tools of a particular faction seeking to get it's agenda into the Christian Party Platform. Did they REALLY BELIEVE what they were writing? HTF do I know? They may have just been Propagandists for a particular spin.

The best I can do is to read the Bible with a critical eye and try to glean what Truth there is in it, and I do think there is a lot of Truth written therein. All Truth though? I doubt it sincerely. I don't think Methuselah lived for 900 years. I don't think Jesus of Nazareth was born to a Virgin. The accounting of the collapse of Babylon though as accounted in the Book of Revelation? Almost certainly true, because we are seeing it happen all over again now.

Revelation18 wrote:

1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.

2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.

7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,

13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.

14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.

15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,

16 And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,

18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!

19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;

23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.



I will respond to the rest of your move when it makes its way to the LCD screen of my Laptop.

RE

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3353

  • ben
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Considering "drawing on Spiritual energies" to combat the Forces of Evil, here you are starting to sound like Ben expecting to get an answer from the 5th Dimension. What you are saying in essence is that we should all just PRAY together here, and Kumbaya all will be well. I don't buy this as a solution, as you say people are Praying RIGHT NOW for this insanity to end, but it AIN'T ENDING. I suggest a more terrestrial based approach and will leave the Spirit world to you and the 5th Dimension to Ben.


I also found that to be a deeply inconsistent suggestion by ash. naturally he will claim otherwise, but implicit in the claim will probably be a judgement that's not his to make. you have compelled me to raise a couple points of contention, RE. firstly, I don't expect an answer from 5D (multiversal consciousness) because what framing I have of such a conception with regard to collapse doesn't include an implicit expectation nor an explicit question. secondly, it is my understanding that a time- and terrestrial- based approach (4D) cannot be separated from 5D if consciousness is believed to be immaterial - and I take it you do.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3354

ben wrote:
Considering "drawing on Spiritual energies" to combat the Forces of Evil, here you are starting to sound like Ben expecting to get an answer from the 5th Dimension. What you are saying in essence is that we should all just PRAY together here, and Kumbaya all will be well. I don't buy this as a solution, as you say people are Praying RIGHT NOW for this insanity to end, but it AIN'T ENDING. I suggest a more terrestrial based approach and will leave the Spirit world to you and the 5th Dimension to Ben.


I also found that to be a deeply inconsistent suggestion by ash. naturally he will claim otherwise, but implicit in the claim will probably be a judgement that's not his to make. you have compelled me to raise a couple points of contention, RE. firstly, I don't expect an answer from 5D (multiversal consciousness) because what framing I have of such a conception with regard to collapse doesn't include an implicit expectation nor an explicit question. secondly, it is my understanding that a time- and terrestrial- based approach (4D) cannot be separated from 5D if consciousness is believed to be immaterial - and I take it you do.


Personally, I thought drawing the analogy between the Spiritual Battle Ashvin outlined and your 5th Dimension arguments was a FABULOUS rhetorical flourish on my part. By lining up his thought process with that of his most avout enemies and showing how they are simliar, it does a great job of undermining the argument.

Far as separation of approaches goes, I do not have a real good handle on what goes on in the 5th Dmension so I do not know what can or cannot be separated out here. I make all my arguments from inside the 4 dimensions I have a reasonably good handle on, though of course many people view me as Looney tunes even inside just those 4 dimensions anyhow. I do TRY to follow your supra-dimensional arguments to see how they apply in the 4D world I am familiar with, sometimes I see what you are talking about but honestly most times I do not.

Nor do I see of course how PRAYING this all will stop and raising Spiritual Consciousness will clean up Fuk-U-shima or prevent further FUs from occurring. Bogus "solution". Isn;t working now, hasn't worked in the past, is ulikely to work in the future.

RE

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3356

The debate is an interesting game of dialectical chess...or British bulldog...not sure which. Of course, the irony is that TAE has predicted all along the rise of angry mobs intent on cutting off the heads of their oppressors. It's part of the unwind that TAE has been warning about, and so far with tremendous accuracy (if without tremendous accuracy of timing). And so, here Ash is trying to convince RE of the error of RE's desires/agenda while at the same time I'm sure Ash will also admit that we are going to inevitably see these very same agendas carried out the world over.

Like Ash, I will continue to argue against these war-like agendas, despite their inevitability. They will undoubtedly be part of the unwind, but as much as they are an inevitable part of that unwind we must also foster a return to a philosophical, spiritual basis for a better new beginning. Not all "progress" has been a waste. The wider spread notions of equality are part of that progress and worth preserving. I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I'm not interested in a loss of justice (in its loftiest sense) for the sake of throwing out the ogres who used the "system of justice" for oppression.

The world can be better after a reset, with stronger communities, a healthier environment, and also preserving the right of the individual to live freely without violence and discrimination. I won't sacrifice one for the other, even while so many people inevitably will and I know that. I'll still speak out against it though. I just don't really see the difference between using financial profit as a reason to destroy my individual freedoms and using the "campaign against the profiteers" to destroy my individual freedoms. I wind up in the same hellish place.
Last Edit: 11 months, 3 weeks ago by skipbreakfast.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3358

skipbreakfast wrote:
The debate is an interesting game of dialectical chess...or British bulldog...not sure which. Of course, the irony is that TAE has predicted all along the rise of angry mobs intent on cutting off the heads of their oppressors. It's part of the unwind that TAE has been warning about, and so far with tremendous accuracy (if without tremendous accuracy of timing). And so, here Ash is trying to convince RE of the error of RE's desires/agenda while at the same time I'm sure Ash will also admit that we are going to inevitably see these very same agendas carried out the world over.


Therein lies the hypocrisy of course. You KNOW what is coming down the pipe here, it's a cycle which has repeated itself over any times. If you know first off that it is going to occur, and second off how it will likely manifest itself, best bet is to be proactive and take control of the situation. If the Mob is going to form up, then at least try to point the Mob in the right direction so mainly the right people get Strung Up. Will said STAMPEDING MOB trample over Innocents as well? No doubt, but pointed in the right direction the Mob will MOSTLY STOMP, KICK and GORE the PIGMEN!

Regardless, what I see all over the net is a Blame Reversal game being played here, it's J6Ps fault for LETTING this happen, for ELECTING the criminals and for BUYING the Iphones and for going into DEBT for the McMansions. You only have YOURSELVES to blame, those PIGMEN are no more GUILTY than you are! Leave them alone and Pay your Taxes! Play by the Rules! Turn the Other Cheek.

NO. No more Mr. Nice Guy.

Bring on the Orkin Man.

RE

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3359

Nah, not hypocrisy. Knowing a mob is inevitably coming is not the same as endorsing it. And I still see it as my moral duty to oppose violent mob rule, even when i know it's going to be an inevitable part of the unwind. Remember, the unwind is going to hurt a lot of people for a lot of reasons, violent mobs being just one of them. I want to help people mitigate that pain as much as possible, so they survive to build a better community at the bottom of this mess.

That's not to say I oppose owning a gun, or even shooting it to protect your rights and property. Hopefully I don't have to ever pull a trigger, but I expect I'll try to learn more about shooting all the same.
Last Edit: 11 months, 3 weeks ago by skipbreakfast.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3360

The problem with opposing mob rule once the mob gets rolling is the "if you're not with us, you're against us" phenomenon. You don't run the other way into a stampede. You run WITH the stampede. You either are with the Wildebeests or the Woves, there are no other choices.

RE

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3361

RE, that's just a bit of emotional propaganda (or worse, a threat). Bush used it too. If I'm not with the mob, I'm not with the mob, period. It doesn't mean I necessarily get trampled. There is just as much reason to believe I'll live to fight another day if I avoid the mob rule you're describing. Besides, isn't the status quo the current mob? Take your logic further, and we should just go along with that wave for all we can get or we'll get crushed. You're endorsing opposing it. I'm all for opposing the mob of the status quo, but not in all the ways you endorse. We do have "numbers" on our side--the more people who get burned by the status quo, the more of "us" will be dissatisfied with the current state of things. Our sheer numbers can effect a lot of change without building a single goddamn guillotine. Endorsing roving militias in search of the ephemeral villains behind this financial mess is not the only way, and is not the best way either. Indeed, chasing ghosts is just going to shed a lot of unnecessary blood. We should focus our energies for more productive gains.
Last Edit: 11 months, 3 weeks ago by skipbreakfast.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3363

skipbreakfast wrote:
Our sheer numbers can effect a lot of change without building a single goddamn guillotine.


"Change you can BELIEVE in", eh Obama-sama?

Sorry Pollyanna, the time is long past where any effective change will come here via peaceful means. Right now, the Gestapo has the Monopoly on the Violence and will use it to crush all opposition. When people start dieing on the streets like the 4 Dean in Ohio on the campus of Kent State University, maybe you will grasp hold of reality here. This go round it won't just be 4 dead either, and there won't be any Great Society program to buy off the impoverished either.

I GUARANTEE you that the Wolves will strike hard and they will strike fast. Your friends who Peacefully protest will go desaparecido. Your Bank Account will go empty. Your property if its worth anything at all will be confiscated. The Boxcars will start moving along the rail of the Burlington-Northern Railroad of Warren Buffet heading for the Human Waste Reprocessing Facility in San Antonio. You don't think it can happen here? Open your eyes SB, it's happening as we speak, the Patriot Act , NDAA, the stink of Fascism is all around us.

If you don't start closing ranks now you will be eaten alive, whether you are fast with a Gun or not. If you play by the Rules with these folks, they will carve you up like Thanksgiving Turkey. They play DIRTY, and I for one will not wait to get kicked in the cojones first here. The first shot has already been fired, first punch thrown already in this fight, and numerous of the Wildebeests already have been sent to the Great Beyond. Time to get serious here and grasp hold of what is happening AS WE SPEAK. It's not going to stop until those at the top are in fear of their very LIVES here. Right now your willingness to play by the rules is what keeps them in power. Clearly for you it will take more before you realize this, but eventually this will arrive on your doorstep also and you'll get the picture, I am sure.

Endorsing roving militias in search of the ephemeral villains behind this financial mess is not the only way, and is not the best way either. Indeed, chasing ghosts is just going to shed a lot of unnecessary necessary blood. We should focus our energies for more productive gains.


Fixed that for you

The Villains are NOT "ephemeral". I can name any number of them right now. Lloyd, Blankfein, Jamie Dimon, Bob Diamond, Ben Bernanke, Carl icahn, Ollie Rehn, Herman von Rompuy, David Rockefeller.....shall I go on here? Those are only the obvious ones also, ferreting out the shadow figures will take a good deal of time as well. Until all these cockroaches are exterminated, we can't productively solve any problems, because THEY are the problem here. If it was good enough just to lock them up and throw away the key I would be fine with that, except that won't work and costs too much anyhow. I certainly do not want to pay for keeping these Scumbags alive in some prison, no matter how stinking rotten a dungeon it is. They just gotta GO, and since they have no issues with sending entire populations to the Great Beyond, I do not see where it is morally reprehensible to reward them Justly for this behavior.

An Eye for an Eye, a Tooth for a Tooth.

RE
Last Edit: 11 months, 3 weeks ago by Reverse Engineer.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3364

Who said I endorse playing by the rules? I certainly don't. Break them and stand your ground. That is different than the genesis of this debate: are there evil mastermind villains at the very top who should be captured and beheaded? Returning to this core of the debate, I see no reason yet to budge from my argument that they don't really exist. Not in the way that they can be hunted down in any effective, sane, useful, helpful or moral way. The evil is systemic, not individual.

I think with regard to your point about not "blaming Joe-6-Pack" for the mess "he" is in, it's really important to return to a brilliant insight from Stoneleigh in which she recalled the fable of Hansel and Gretel. The analogy she made argues that we would never blame Hansel and Gretel for their predicament (they're nearly eaten) despite the fact that it was an innocent sort of greed that got them there (they were happy to accept the witch's offer to eat as much of the candy-house as they wanted). Because faced with such an offer, any child would accept! Now, Joe-6-Pack, and his better half Josephine (or John?) were similarly led by the bankers (the witches) to the easy (and incredibly complex) all-you-can-eat credit buffet (the gingerbread house). Not surprisingly we all gorged on it until we're choking, and were none the wiser...until now. Bankers are paid hundreds of thousands if not millions to figure out ways to get Joe, Josephine and John to fall into the trap. It's not a fair fight. No wonder we fell for it! The guy making $30K a year fixing mufflers was trained to believe his banker. Oops. So it is important NOT to blame Joe. Truly, it is not his fault, and he should not pay the price. The well-informed bankers lent the money out, knowing full well what the risks were (unlike Joe). Indeed, the bankers wrote the rules! Their take-it-or-leave-it mortgage agreements, if you will. And so let's enforce those same rules against the banks. Not against Joe. And re-write the rules that were wrong to begin with. I totally agree that the banks and bondholders should pay the price for their terrible bets--after all, they really did know better. The banks are a systemic evil that needs addressing. Systemic evil isn't solved by violence against a few individuals, however. There are many other rule-breaking tactics that can and undoubtedly will be employed to make necessary changes.
Last Edit: 11 months, 3 weeks ago by skipbreakfast.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3365

Hello SB, go way back up the thread here to what you yourself wrote:

Skipbreakfast wrote:
What about our own individual responsiblity in this whole mess? We're voters. We're consumers. We have free will. I don't want to blame the victim. But I also want to avoid wasting time on blaming Puff the Magic Dragon.


Despite your really GOOD Hansel and Gretel analogy, the words you wrote above are a common idea circulating that it is each little J6P who is individually responsible here, not the Big Boys at the top. You "don't want to blame the victim", but you DO blame the victim!

You also write

That is different than the genesis of this debate: are there evil mastermind villains at the very top who should be captured and beheaded?


First off, I don't think that is the genesis of the debate at all. IMHO, it would be better phrased as "What is the best way to handle our current problems which will Save the most Innocents and Punish the Most Guilty".

Far as how many Mastermind Villains there are at the Top, of this we cannot be sure right now. We can be sure there are some though, because we are working in a Central control Top down paradigmfor a very long time here. There IS a Brain to this Beast, even if it is distributed across many Heads (which off course all need to roll like Bowling Balls )

In terms of systemic Evil here, yes there is an emergent property of the system no one individual participant is responsible for, but overall the system cannot continue once you remove its Head (or Heads as the case may be here). If you identify the controlling source of any system, say the motherboard of your laptop and fry it, POOF the whole system of your computer won't run any more! Same deal here. By targetting the Motherboard here of system controllers at the Top, we get rid of the system in the most efficient means possible.

Again, this is really about Accountability, and who is most Responsible and Culpable? Clearly it is those folks with great Wealth and Power who have been running the show and pulling the strings of Political Power, across Generations for sure and likely across Millenia. Take them out, system goes Blue Screen of Death on the Laptop.

RE

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3366

Note I specifically said in the quote you bring up, I don't want to blame the vicitm. And I don't. I won't. But I will blame somethign systemic, which requires change from each of us. Demanding change from each of us is different from assigning blame.

Ultimately, our debate comes full circle. I intervened upon K's question to you: "name the evil masterminds behind this mess." My answer was there were none--not in the sense K was suggesting. You insist there are such evil masterminds. But when asked how we begin making them pay, I pointed out that you can't just eliminate one, 100, or 1000, because more just pop up in their place. The hydra as you aptly put it. And I point out that we then devolve into an endless blame game against a fantasy hydra where nobody wins--you cannot eliminate the evil masterminds through targeted violence because there are no evil masterminds per se (or conversely they are infinite and just as elusive as a result). So they're a fantasy. If it's systemic, the whole "system" is responsible and must be changed. That is different from blaming Joe, John, Josephine, you or me. We must CHANGE as individuals to address the sytemic evil. We don't PUNISH Joe to address it. That would be wrong. The distinction is encouraging change from individual victims' behaviour versus punishing the victims for something they supposedly did wrong in the past. Like Hansel and Gretel I don't think most individuals deserve blame for their predicament. Moving forward, I do argue we should all change though.
Last Edit: 11 months, 3 weeks ago by skipbreakfast.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3368

skipbreakfast wrote:


Ultimately, our debate comes full circle. I intervened upon K's question to you: "name the evil masterminds behind this mess." My answer was there were none--not in the sense K was suggesting. You insist there are such evil masterminds. But when asked how we begin making them pay, I pointed out that you can't just eliminate one, 100, or 1000, because more just pop up in their place. The hydra as you aptly put it. And I point out that we then devolve into an endless blame game against a fantasy hydra where nobody wins--you cannot eliminate the evil masterminds through targeted violence because there are no evil masterminds per se (or conversely they are infinite and just as elusive as a result). So they're a fantasy. If it's systemic, the whole "system" is responsible and must be changed.


Agreed, the whole system must be changed, and in order to do that the best way is to take out the Motherboard of the Old System. Can't run any system without the Controllers.

I do not agree the Hydra is a Fantasy in this case, there are REAL PEOPLE running this show, they are not fictions or fantasy. They can be identified, they can be targeted. They are not fictitious Boogeymen, they EXIST in reality. It is evident in all the systems we run, it is evident through History as well.

As to whether more will pop up into place after the current set is identified, perhaps they will, although IMHO with a comprehensive extermination plan that will take a while before it occurs again. When they do pop up again, you send them to the same place you sent the last bunch. Straight to HELL.

Come with me if you want to LIVE!


RE
Last Edit: 11 months, 3 weeks ago by Reverse Engineer.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3370

  • ashvin
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[quote="Reverse Engineer" post=3350][As to a comparative numerical accounting goes of whether more Innocents were sent to the Great Beyond by Uncle Joe Stalin or the Romanoff family going back to Peter the Great, I can't answer that for sure, but I would bet on a percentage of population basis at any given time the Romanoffs were responsible for more deaths than Stalin was.[/quote]

You want to compare the deaths over a time period of 250 years to a time period of a little over 10? When considering deaths resulting from famine, estimates say that Stalin presided over anywhere from 30-60 million over the course of 12 years.

On the Backfire analogy, clearly we disagree, this is NOT a "new fire", it is set SPECIFICALLY to combat an already ongoing conflagration. Not even setting the fire in a new forest either, setting it in all the places where the fire currently rages out of control. My analogy works better than yours does Ashvin, hands down here.


Of course you believe your analogy works better... it is YOUR plan after all. You think the plan is the best possible way to go about combating human forces of destruction right now, and I believe the odds are that your plan will only add to the destruction, or substitute one type of destruction for another, equally brutal type of destruction that ultimately gets us no closer to "saving" humanity than we were before. We can come up with random analogies to fit our arguments all day...

Far as your selective choices go of Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot et al go as representative of the Evil Dictator outcome, it remains a possibility but does not HAVE to be the outcome. All I need to do is demonstrate ONE instance of a Dictator who improved the lives of the people he ruled over to show this outcome is not inevitable. I think Fidel Castro does that pretty well by his lonesome. There is little doubt that quite a few Innocents were sent to the Great Beyond when Castro took over, but on balance things mostly were better for the Cubans. At least they didn't get raped like the Haitians did.


Why is your burden of proof to only show that counter-productive genocide is not INEVITABLE under your plan all of a sudden? As long as there is a 1 in 10 million chance that it will work without producing those horrible results, you are willing to go through with it? And, really, we should stick to comparing apples and apples. Plans that explicitly promote the formation of totalitarian group that uses systematic torture/genocide to achieve its stated goals. Castro isn't a great comparison.

Considering "drawing on Spiritual energies" to combat the Forces of Evil, here you are starting to sound like Ben expecting to get an answer from the 5th Dimension. What you are saying in essence is that we should all just PRAY together here, and Kumbaya all will be well. I don't buy this as a solution, as you say people are Praying RIGHT NOW for this insanity to end, but it AIN'T ENDING. I suggest a more terrestrial based approach and will leave the Spirit world to you and the 5th Dimension to Ben.


I didn't say anything about praying for everything to get better. The core idea is to prevent as many OTHER people from supporting the Evil agenda at the top as possible, both physically and spiritually, because there will come a time when those at the top NEED that support. That goal can be accomplished in many ways, and spiritual warfare can be just as active as any other type of activism. You have schools/teaching (what you do), missions, charities and even stuff like exorcisms, designed to dispense with the Evil forces that have occupied people.

The point here is that there are other possibilities besides the OMMP. You may claim they are not working, but others would claim they are working in subtle ways by gradually undermining the support base needed by the elites to accomplish their long-term goals. Perhaps they are horribly wrong, but then again, you might be about the OMMP too.

I think you are being overly dismissive of this approach, because their is CLEARLY a spiritual element to what's going on here with the NWO elites. Any plan to stop them or get rid of them must take that into account.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3372

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Reverse Engineer wrote:
Of course we can pick and choose what to use and what not to use in an argument. You do it every time you write an article here and snippet out quotes from other authors. To support your arguments, you select out quotes from other Bloggers who have a smilar POV or take on the situation you do. To undermine the opposition, you select out quotes which are so egregiously STUPID they make the opposition look ridiculous.

Why should the Bible be any different? Because it is ostensibly the Word of God? There are MANY authors who contributed to the Bible, consider them the Bloggers of their time. Some of them may have truly been Prophets inspired by Divine Direction guiding their Keyboard Fingers, others may simply have been tools of a particular faction seeking to get it's agenda into the Christian Party Platform. Did they REALLY BELIEVE what they were writing? HTF do I know? They may have just been Propagandists for a particular spin.


This is not true. If I have ever quoted someone to a support a worldview or theory that misrepresents the totality of their own view, I would like you to point it out to me, because that would be a very misleading thing to do.

Biblical Christianity (and Judaism to a lesser extent) is quite literally a Theory of Everything, from the beginnings of the Universe to birth of the human species to Armageddon, the Rapture and the Day of the Lord.

Physicists that are attempting to develop a TOE cannot incorporate parts of Einstein's realitivity theories that support their hypotheses and dismiss other parts that contradict them. It's all or nothing for them - either their TOE is consistent with relativity or it's not.

There is no dispute over what Einstein's theory was, and Christianity is like the Theory of General Relativity in the religious world. No other religion has texts that are so well-preserved and consistent, both between copies of the texts and between texts by different authors. Even between the Books of the Old Testament and those of the New, the consistency of descriptions of people and events is stunning.

A lot of propaganda has surfaced over the centuries about the Bible's hidden symbolism, or its inconsistencies, or mistranslations of certain passages, or missing texts that were allegedly a part of it, etc. But now, most people with a computer, some simple document analysis software and internet access can debunk most of that stuff, since all of the original writings are archived online.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3373

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[quote="ben" post=3353]
I also found that to be a deeply inconsistent suggestion by ash. naturally he will claim otherwise, but implicit in the claim will probably be a judgement that's not his to make.


Inconsistent... with what? What implicit judgment?

RE asked for ideas about other ways to deal with the NWO elites, and I gave him one. It's not the path I have personally chosen to take at this point, but it undeniably a path that many have chosen to take and that many regard as a very productive one.

But anyway... I don't think I will ever truly understand WTF it is you are talking about, ben, so...

how bout them Cs last night?? They're taking it to Game 7 for sure.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3374

ashvin wrote:
Reverse Engineer wrote:
As to a comparative numerical accounting goes of whether more Innocents were sent to the Great Beyond by Uncle Joe Stalin or the Romanoff family going back to Peter the Great, I can't answer that for sure, but I would bet on a percentage of population basis at any given time the Romanoffs were responsible for more deaths than Stalin was.


You want to compare the deaths over a time period of 250 years to a time period of a little over 10? When considering deaths resulting from famine, estimates say that Stalin presided over anywhere from 30-60 million over the course of 12 years.


No, I specifically said "on a percentage of population basis at any given time". In this way you normalize for the greater Population base Uncle Joe had around to send to the Great Beyond. In the time of Peter the Great, there were only around 14M TOTAL in Russia. In Catherine's time, around 23M.

Now, in the late 1700, numerous Plagues ran through Russia, resultant generally from warfare that the Tsars were always engaged in. From Wiki on the 1770s Plague

The Russian plague epidemic of 1770—1772, also known as the Plague of 1771, was the last massive outbreak of plague in central Russia, claiming between 52 and 100 thousand lives in Moscow alone (1/6 to 1/3 of its population).[1] The bubonic plague epidemic that originated in the Moldovan theatre of the 1768–1774 Russian-Turkish war in January 1770 swept northward through Ukraine and central Russia, peaking in Moscow in September 1771 and causing the Plague Riot. The epidemic reshaped the map of Moscow, as new cemeteries were established beyond the 18th century city limits.


Ruskies were dieing all over the place during the Reign of the Romanoffs. Famine, Plague, War & Death, the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse just about non-stop for 150 years or so. Pogroms on a regular basis. Cossacks riding the countryside murdering and raping willy nilly. You think Stalin was worse than that? He was a cupcake compared to the Romanoffs.

Of course you believe your analogy works better... it is YOUR plan after all.


Picking analogies that don't work for the plan would be counterproductive

Why is your burden of proof to only show that counter-productive genocide is not INEVITABLE under your plan all of a sudden? As long as there is a 1 in 10 million chance that it will work without producing those horrible results


Nah, I don't think the Odds are that bad. 10,000:1 worst case scenario IMHO. Better Odds than continuing down the current pathway in any event.

even stuff like exorcisms, designed to dispense with the Evil forces that have occupied people.


I am all for the Exorcism idea.



I think you are being overly dismissive of this approach, because their is CLEARLY a spiritual element to what's going on here with the NWO elites. Any plan to stop them or get rid of them must take that into account.


I don't see any reason a dual attack cannot be made here, both on the Spiritual end and Terrestrial based one. The more force brought to bear here the better. I'm all for enlisting the aid of paranormal Psychics and Scanners also.

in deference to perhaps sensitive TAE readers, I did NOT pick the Exploding Head shots

RE
Last Edit: 11 months, 3 weeks ago by Reverse Engineer.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3377

This is not true. If I have ever quoted someone to a support a worldview or theory that misrepresents the totality of their own view, I would like you to point it out to me, because that would be a very misleading thing to do.


I never said you did that Ashvin. I merely pointed out that you Pick and Choose the quotes and text you wish to use in an argument. It's selective.

Similarly, I select out quotes from the Bible which support my arguments, for instance the Revelation 18 quote I used above. I don't think I am misrepresenting it to say that represents a description of a monetary system collapse, do you?

Far as what God's Will actually is here, in totality it is somewhat difficult to elucidate it completely from the Bible. I am big on the Hellfire aspect though and Jesus did say:

Jesus wrote:
5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast [it] from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not [that] thy whole body should be cast into hell.


So what if the Illuminati are the "right eye" that Jesus is talking about here?

Anyhow, analogies of the Bible to the General Theory of Relativity are pretty good, because neither one has been shown to be definitively true. You can still go in and pick apart General Relativity Theory, and you can use parts of it to justify other proofs without the entire thing being correct as well.

Point is, regardless of how consistent you think the Bible is or has been "proven" to be, it is not incumbent on anyone except a Fundy Christian who takes every last word written there as the Word of God to believe the whole thing or use the whole thing either. Nor do you have to use the entirety of a post by Ambrose Evans Pritchard to demonstrate what a Nincompoop he is. Usually one or two paragraphs of his stuff does that quite well these days.
Last Edit: 11 months, 3 weeks ago by ashvin.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3380

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[quote="ashvin" post=3373]ben wrote:
I also found that to be a deeply inconsistent suggestion by ash. naturally he will claim otherwise, but implicit in the claim will probably be a judgement that's not his to make.


Inconsistent... with what? What implicit judgment?

RE asked for ideas about other ways to deal with the NWO elites, and I gave him one. It's not the path I have personally chosen to take at this point, but it undeniably a path that many have chosen to take and that many regard as a very productive one.

But anyway... I don't think I will ever truly understand WTF it is you are talking about, ben, so...

how bout them Cs last night?? They're taking it to Game 7 for sure.


oh, right. of course. with what? silly me for being so characteristically obscure with my references.
lemme refresh your memory with your most recent comment at DD, which was a response to LG (bold), and which is just the latest of your box-shaped, Can't Tell Shit From Shinola broadsides against icke and the other anarchist esotericists whom at the very least you should be cheering on for their anti-fascist empowerment:



The rest might satisfy themselves with just sniffing at the entrance to the "rabbit hole" as Icke so cleverly puts it. I am now well into that rabbit hole and exploring.


Oh you are deep into the rabbit hole, alright. So deep that you have become a shill for the very same Illuminati that you spend your time railing against. How else do you explain your constant promotion of someone who is so clearly a Theosophist (Icke), hijacking most of his core ideas from admitted Satanists Helena Blavatsky and Alice Bailey, who incidentally formed Lucis Trust (i.e. the Lucifer Publishing Company). If you took the time to think critically about it, instead of accepting whatever he says because his ideas seem to mesh with your spiritual "research", you would see that I am right.

You want to dismiss anyone who still uses science, rationality and logic to analyze various issues in the real world, because you cling to Tom Campbell's pseudo-spiritual, pseudo-scientific TOE (which is itself a variation of much earlier New Age propaganda), all the while not realizing that's exactly the best outcome the Illuminati and NWO promoters could ever hope for. They want to marginalize anyone who thinks with their head, and appeal to the self-deluded who believe they can be a God.

You are already talking like someone who will be eager to dispense with anyone who is not furthering what you believe to be humanity's spiritual evolution, as if the rest of us are just holding you back with our "chicken shit". Trust me when I say that I mean the following with no ill will towards you: I feel lucky that you are in your 60s rather than much younger, because we do not need any more people with your beliefs and your way with words in the trying decades ahead of us.

Your rabbit hole will pave the way for THEIR power and humanity's descent into a never-ending abyss, so I beg you, climb out and get a grip before it's too late.


over and out, ash.

SB, i think you will think highly of this op-ed in the LA Times on Puttnam's Law. i obviously agree that Puttman's Law is a dynamic that exists, but i also believe this article is retrogressive for what it omits - the well-documented, active social programming by the elite (might wanna click on some of Triv's links sometime). which is why it went to print.

When it comes to contemporary American culture, its slogan ought to be "same old same-old." Same old movies — one bombastic comic book adventure after another. Same old TV shows — one "Friends" clone after another, from "How I Met your Mother" to"Happy Endings"to"Whitney"to "Men at Work." Same old journalism. Same old politics. There are, of course, outliers and renegades, but there seem to be fewer of them nowadays, and they are just that: outliers. For all the obsession with the new and different, we seem to be living within déjà vu.

If you are looking for an explanation for this cultural gravitational pull that drags everything to the predictable center, it may very well be what one might label "Puttnam's Law" after David Puttnam, the British film producer. Puttnam's Law should take its place alongside Murphy's Law (anything that can go wrong will go wrong), Parkinson's Law (work expands to fill the time available to complete it) and the Peter Principle (a person rises to the level of his or her incompetence) as a basic tenet of modern life. Indeed, if you understand Puttnam's Law, you will understand a great deal about the cultural poverty that surrounds us...

Thus Puttnam's Law: It is more acceptable to fail in conventional ways than in unconventional ways. And its corollary: The reward for succeeding in unconventional ways is less than the risk of failing in unconventional ways. In short, you can screw up with impunity so long as you screw up like everybody else...

There is a scene in Alexandra Pelosi's documentary aboutGeorge W. Bush's 2000 presidential campaign, "Journeys With George," in which a reporter rises from his desk at the end of the day in a press room filled with other reporters and asks, "What is our story today?" In other words: What are they all going to be writing? One might think that reporters might strive to look for the odd angle or the unreported element — to separate themselves from the pack. You'd be wrong. That's Puttnam's Law.

Thus, even when you are wrong, you have the defense of working within the consensus. When you are wrong outside the consensus, you have no defense. You are on your own. That's Puttnam's Law again...

Puttnam's Law is also readily applicable to politics and economics. Woe betide the politician who proposes something new and different, which is why Mitt Romney is still peddling tax cuts, even though they demonstrably failed in the Bush administration, and why President Obama followed a war plan in Afghanistan that was essentially forged by consensus and that changed only when the consensus changed. Puttnam's Law also helps explain why Wall Street geniuses who should have known better pursued high-risk strategies that brought on the Great Recession and continue to pursue them, as JP Morgan recently showed. Everybody did it. The prudent ones were the outliers, and where are they now?

To be fair, America has long been in the grip of Puttnam's Law. Conformity is comfort. Early in the 19th century Tocqueville remarked, "I know of no country in which there is so little independence of mind and real freedom of discussion as in America." But the law operates with greater force now because the culture has become so status- and success-conscious at its upper echelons that there is more at stake by risking independence, and because mass culture itself intensifies the fear of being different. For all our vaunted individualism, majority not only rules in America; it rules with an iron hand.


www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/tv/la-ca-puttnams-law-20120603,0,672709.story

there can't be herding without predation. intraspecies predation.
Last Edit: 11 months, 3 weeks ago by ben. Reason: grammar

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3382

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RE said

Far as your selective choices go of Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot et al go as representative of the Evil Dictator outcome, it remains a possibility but does not HAVE to be the outcome. All I need to do is demonstrate ONE instance of a Dictator who improved the lives of the people he ruled over to show this outcome is not inevitable. I think Fidel Castro does that pretty well by his lonesome. There is little doubt that quite a few Innocents were sent to the Great Beyond when Castro took over, but on balance things mostly were better for the Cubans.


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mongol_Empire_map.gif

Bring In The Genghis Man!
Last Edit: 11 months, 3 weeks ago by ben. Reason: can't insert .gif

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3383

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ben,

Oh, right, you believe my two comments (here and on DD) are "inconsistent" because you have done absolutely no research of your own on these issues, instead swallowing up every piece of slop Uncle El G spoon feeds you, and therefore have no idea what you are talking about.

Notice the word "pseudo-spiritual" in my response to El G. That means FALSE spirituality! David Icke is the biggest pseudo-spiritualist piece of crap out there. He has openly admitted to receiving many of his ideas about the solar logos and what not from "channeled" entities. These ideas just so happen to be the exact same ones given to Alice Bailey when she was also in communication with "ascended masters". They are obvious perversions of the Bible and Christianity, as I have explained to you before. David Icke is a Luciferian Theosophist, whether he knows it or not.

I may even dedicate a topic to this issue on DD in the near future, just to finally squash all of this Icke nonsense from you and El G.

Not coincidentally, the best debunkers of Icke are true Christians. These are people who believe in the importance of using science, logic and rationality to tear apart BOGUS arguments, such as those presented by Icke, because their God gave them those tools to discern TRUTH from deception. They are also heavily spiritual people. In fact, it is their faith and spirituality which motivates them to put so much time and effort into debunking those who worship false gods or, worse yet, claim to BE GOD. That includes Icke along with the whole kitten caboodle of New Age and esoteric evangelists.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3384

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Reverse Engineer wrote:
I never said you did that Ashvin. I merely pointed out that you Pick and Choose the quotes and text you wish to use in an argument. It's selective.

Similarly, I select out quotes from the Bible which support my arguments, for instance the Revelation 18 quote I used above. I don't think I am misrepresenting it to say that represents a description of a monetary system collapse, do you?

Far as what God's Will actually is here, in totality it is somewhat difficult to elucidate it completely from the Bible.

...


Anyhow, analogies of the Bible to the General Theory of Relativity are pretty good, because neither one has been shown to be definitively true. You can still go in and pick apart General Relativity Theory, and you can use parts of it to justify other proofs without the entire thing being correct as well.


Again, I'm not asking you to believe anything yourself. And I have never claimed ANY theory can be proven to be true.

It is absolutely untrue that you can use things from a theory that support your argument, while failing to account for things from that very same theory that go against your argument. A theory is not bits and pieces of evidence, and it does not have the luxury of being internally inconsistent yet still valid. Any physicist who does that with Relativity Theory is a bad one.

I am big on the Hellfire aspect though and Jesus did say:

Jesus wrote:
5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast [it] from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not [that] thy whole body should be cast into hell.


So what if the Illuminati are the "right eye" that Jesus is talking about here?

Point is, regardless of how consistent you think the Bible is or has been "proven" to be, it is not incumbent on anyone except a Fundy Christian who takes every last word written there as the Word of God to believe the whole thing or use the whole thing either. Nor do you have to use the entirety of a post by Ambrose Evans Pritchard to demonstrate what a Nincompoop he is. Usually one or two paragraphs of his stuff does that quite well these days.


Your quotation and interpretation of Jesus above, through Matthew, is a GREAT example of why you are wrong on this issue. When considering the context in which that passage is written, among other things, it becomes very easy to figure out exactly what the passage is talking about. Here are the 17 verses that come after the two you quoted in Matthew 5:

Matthew531to48 wrote:
“It was said, ‘WHOEVER SENDS HIS WIFE AWAY, LET HIM GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE’; 32but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

33“Again, you have heard that the ancients were told, ‘YOU SHALL NOT MAKE FALSE VOWS, BUT SHALL FULFILL YOUR VOWS TO THE LORD.’ 34“But I say to you, make no oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, 35or by the earth, for it is the footstool of His feet, or by Jerusalem, for it is THE CITY OF THE GREAT KING. 36“Nor shall you make an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black. 37“But let your statement be, ‘Yes, yes’ or ‘No, no’; anything beyond these is of evil.

38“You have heard that it was said, ‘AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.’ 39“But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40“If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also. 41“Whoever forces you to go one mile, go with him two. 42“Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you.

43“You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.’ 44“But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46“For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47“If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48“Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.


It then becomes clear that this entire part is talking about striving towards personal avoidance of sin against the Father at all costs (i.e. gouging out an eyeball or cutting off one hand), and, unfortunately for you, striving towards avoidance of retribution against your enemies. In fact, it emphasizes showing love and compassion for them. Therefore, your interpretation that Matthew 5:29 may be talking about going after the Illuminati with the modern Inquisition is clearly untenable.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3385

ashvin wrote:


I may even dedicate a topic to this issue on DD in the near future, just to finally squash all of this Icke nonsense from you and El G.


Wow! That sounds like fun!

You better drop it in the Smokehouse Barbecue. Its going to end up there anyhow.

RE

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3386

ashvin wrote:

A theory is not bits and pieces of evidence, and it does not have the luxury of being internally inconsistent yet still valid.


Well, in same Matthew chapter, before the quote in question, Jesus said the following

Matthew wrote:
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.


Emphasis mine.

So Jesus specifies you go to Hell if you are angry without cause, but he doesn't say what happens if you do have cause to be angry. I would say we have cause to be angry here. Also in terms of internal consistency, this whole passage seems inconsistent to me anyhow.

Also, I HAVE acknowledged many of the flaws and inconsistencies I see in Biblical writings, including various Miracles, the age of Methuselah etc and I could add to that the descripition of Earth creation and the timeline of Homo Sapiens.

You can make the case that all this is internally consistent, but it is still IMHO flawed so the theory as a whole falls apart anyway.

Anyhow, Biblical intepretation and philosophy of referencing aside here, do you still make the case Stalin was worse than the Romanoffs?

RE
Last Edit: 11 months, 3 weeks ago by Reverse Engineer.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3387

ben wrote:


Bring In The Genghis Man!


Ghengis Khan is actually a pretty good example here, so I'll throw him in with Fidel as not such a bad Dictator. GK gets a real bad rap for all the death, destruction, raping and pillaging his Mongol Horde engaged in, but you do have to remember that prior to Ghengis getting all the nomadic Tribes organized, they were being eaten alive by expanding agrarian culture, particularly in China.

Far has his own Mongols were concerned, Ghengis was a pretty good Dictator even by History Book standards. From Wiki:

Wikipedia wrote:

Beyond his military accomplishments, Genghis Khan also advanced the Mongol Empire in other ways. He decreed the adoption of the Uyghur script as the Mongol Empire's writing system. He also promoted religious tolerance in the Mongol Empire, and created a unified empire from the nomadic tribes of northeast Asia. Present-day Mongolians regard him as the founding father of Mongolia.[8]


I am NOT saying Ghengis Khan was a particularly nice guy overall, but he certainly had some Good qualities, not the least of which was that he didn't take any shit from the Chinese

RE

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3390

  • ashvin
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Reverse Engineer wrote:
Anyhow, Biblical intepretation and philosophy of referencing aside here, do you still make the case Stalin was worse than the Romanoffs?


I think it is useless to try and determine which nasty dictators
were "worse" than which other ones over time. By % of population killed per year of rule (assuming the deaths largely resulted from the ruler's policies), Stalin is probably the worst to have ever lived. There are obviously other measures of Evilness, though.

Like I said before, I do not think our goal here should be to commit less evil than the really evil guys when it's all said and done. Replacing one set of evil people with a slightly less evil set of people is not some big accomplishment for humanity in my book.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3392

ashvin wrote:
Reverse Engineer wrote:
Anyhow, Biblical intepretation and philosophy of referencing aside here, do you still make the case Stalin was worse than the Romanoffs?


I think it is useless to try and determine which nasty dictators
were "worse" than which other ones over time. By % of population killed per year of rule (assuming the deaths largely resulted from the ruler's policies), Stalin is probably the worst to have ever lived. There are obviously other measures of Evilness, though.


By % of population this is highly unlikely, since I am quite sure Octavian and most certainly Caligula and Nero wiped out greater percentages of the population Rome was controlling, not to mention explicitly enslaving more people also. Uncle Joe just gets a real bad rpe because he was so recent.

Then of course you also have Vlad the Impaler, who at one point stuck something like 10,000 people all staked out around the Castle. Not even Uncle Joe was THAT in your face. Not sure the total population Vlad was working with, but my bet is he would beat Stalin out by % figures also in a few short years of rule.

I disagree that is is "useless" to make this analysis, because it represents real history of Homo Sapiens, and you gotta get a good handle on how these dynamics operate in reality, not in some fantasy world you would like to see come true.



It would be JMHO that the current Oligarchy running the show ALREADY beats Uncle Joe by an Order of Magnitude. These folks are operating Globally, destroying the ecosystem and are no doubt ultimately responsible for 10s of millions of deaths already, and in the next few years should work into the Billions at astounding speed if a stop isn't put to their level of destruction. Vlad the Impaler would be an Improvement and Uncle Joe a positive CUPCAKE compared to these folks.

Like I said before, I do not think our goal here should be to commit less evil than the really evil guys when it's all said and done. Replacing one set of evil people with a slightly less evil set of people is not some big accomplishment for humanity in my book.


Disagreed. You are not going to work your way back to the Perfect World in a single step here, and Less Evil is better than Great Evil. You have to be a bit realistic here and take into account the realities of human history and human behavior. These things will not change overnight, so when presented with two bad alternatives, you take the one which is less worse.

I am just being Realistic and carefully observing Human Behavior and making the best of a bad situation.

RE

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3394

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Vlad the Impaler and his brother Radu were sent to the court of the Sultan in Constantinople to be held as hostages, sort of like collateral, for the tribute that was paid every year to the Turks ad infinitum. While there for many years these royal boys were subjected to endless sodomy sort of in the Afghan way. No wonder then that Vlad made sure to have his eye for an eye when he came to power. He did help Romania to come into being as a tiny state caught between greater powers. He is something of a hero to the Romanians now, as they have never escaped from that position.

Play to Win! 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3397

Reverse Engineer wrote:

I am just being Realistic and carefully observing Human Behavior and making the best of a bad situation.

RE


One addititon here with respect to REALISM, as opposed to Spiritual or 5th Dimension arguments here.

When I play a Chess Game, I do not rely on Prayer or Spirituality or 5th Dimension thinking to WIN the Game. I look for the WEAKNESSES in the position of my opponent, when I find them I go in for the KILL.

I am no Gary Kasparov by any means, and maybe Gary is so good because he does have access to Spiritual Chess algorithms in his mind, I don't know HTF anybody could be that good without such. I do not have access to that though, I just work in the 4D world I know and mostly do OK with just that amount of knowledge. I achieved Master Level in my teens just by playing many games and memorizing the most successful openings and variations. But I never got so good as to be Grand Master, you really have to devote yourself to the game for that and at this point if you walk that road it probably does have a Spiritual aspect. You literally must LIVE for Chess to be a Grand Master.

For the argument in play here, the pont here is this. I do not work in the world of Spirituality or the 5th Dimension. I am a VERY practical person who observes how games are Won and Lost. When I commit to the Chessboard, I commit to do my best to WIN, and I use the tools at my disposal, my analytical mind mostly in this case and my memory, which is a pretty good one overall

History as it has played out is like a bunch of Chess Openings to me. This particular Game is long running here, approaching if not already in the End Game. You wanna win this game on an assymetric board with different pieces for Black and White still left in Play? You cannot do it by conventional means, and you certainly will not win if you do not take some risks.

The whole history of Homo Sapiens on Earth is one of EXTREME levels of Violence, through all recorded History that is true and you cannot deny it. If you are not prepared to do Violence when it becomes necessary to Win, you just will not WIN.

Who pulled the First Punch here? Who ASKED for the Battle? Not J6P. J6P just wanted to live in his nice McMansion with the White Picket Fence and a nice Pension that was PROMISED to him if he played by the Rules. Now the Rules Carpet has been pulled from under J6P, and so the final battle here for ALL the Marbles in the End Game commences thusly. So be it here, if that is what the Illuminati playing Black want, then that is what we shouldl give them playing White in this Game, and most surely NOT take any Prisoners either, because the Illuminati playing Black will not,

White got eaten up here in the early game, and we do not have much left to play with, nostly we just still have more Pawns on the Board. BUT, if we can get just ONE of those Pawns to the 8th Rank, we can Queen that Pawn, and then another after that one.

In a Chess Game on 64 squares with 8 pawns each, not too many Queens are possible usually. In a world of 6.9B Pawns and .1B Illuminati though? Another game entirely.

Time has come to Queen some Pawns left in this Game now. Time has come to Play to WIN! Forkk and Pin! Feignt and Misdiirect! Capture Space! Coordinate your ATTACK NOW! Before it is TOO LATE.

PLAY TO WIN!

RE
Last Edit: 11 months, 3 weeks ago by Reverse Engineer.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3402

  • ashvin
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Reverse Engineer wrote:

By % of population this is highly unlikely, since I am quite sure Octavian and most certainly Caligula and Nero wiped out greater percentages of the population Rome was controlling, not to mention explicitly enslaving more people also. Uncle Joe just gets a real bad rpe because he was so recent.


I said % of the population per year. Joe gets a bad rep because a shit load of innocent Russians died under his rule as a direct result of his policies of ethnic deportation, collectivization, political persecution, etc. If the Russian population was on average about 100 million people at this time (probably less), then the lower end of the estimates put it at 30% of the population DEAD by the end of his rule (not tortured, injured, raped, or anything else). That's about 3% per year.

Then of course you also have Vlad the Impaler, who at one point stuck something like 10,000 people all staked out around the Castle. Not even Uncle Joe was THAT in your face. Not sure the total population Vlad was working with, but my bet is he would beat Stalin out by % figures also in a few short years of rule.


Hitler's Holocaust wasn't THAT in our faces either. Millions of Jews systemically exterminated, among others, but most of it was out of sight in concentration camps.

I disagree that is is "useless" to make this analysis, because it represents real history of Homo Sapiens, and you gotta get a good handle on how these dynamics operate in reality, not in some fantasy world you would like to see come true.



It would be JMHO that the current Oligarchy running the show ALREADY beats Uncle Joe by an Order of Magnitude. These folks are operating Globally, destroying the ecosystem and are no doubt ultimately responsible for 10s of millions of deaths already, and in the next few years should work into the Billions at astounding speed if a stop isn't put to their level of destruction. Vlad the Impaler would be an Improvement and Uncle Joe a positive CUPCAKE compared to these folks.

Like I said before, I do not think our goal here should be to commit less evil than the really evil guys when it's all said and done. Replacing one set of evil people with a slightly less evil set of people is not some big accomplishment for humanity in my book.


Disagreed. You are not going to work your way back to the Perfect World in a single step here, and Less Evil is better than Great Evil. You have to be a bit realistic here and take into account the realities of human history and human behavior. These things will not change overnight, so when presented with two bad alternatives, you take the one which is less worse.

I am just being Realistic and carefully observing Human Behavior and making the best of a bad situation.


Seriously, I find it disturbing that you spend so much time comparing nasty leaders in order to justify your plan. WELL... Stalin was bad but he wasn't AS BAD as Vlad the Impaler, and Vlad wasn't as bad as Hitler, and Ghengis Khan was better than them all.

You can run circles around the facts all day, but they won't change. Plans like yours have almost always resulted in extremely destructive consequences for humanity, especially in recent history. You are not the one being realistic here, you are the one being Idealistic and ignoring human dynamics at large scales for the sake of your argument.

You are making all kinds of unwarranted assumptions - that your plan will be carried out "properly", that the people carrying it out will not abuse their powers, that it is a stepping stone towards creating a "perfect world", that it is an absolutely necessary risk we must take, that Evil is justified to battle Evil as long as it's "less evil", that the chances of success are high because the "force multiplier of oil" will be gone.

What does that last one even mean? Who is right now in control of the soon to be scarce amounts of oil/resources in the world. Why is this an advantage for the vengeful masses? How will your Army of the Righteous get organized, communicate and carry out its functions in an orderly manner around the entire world? When do you launch the plan? Are you waiting for the global economy and rule of law to entirely break down, plunging societies into chaos, before you launch the plan?

Most of my questions in this discussion about how the plan will ACTUALLY work have received vague and ultimately unsatisfactory answers. They reek of idealism, not realism. SB was exactly right when saying this:

And so, here Ash is trying to convince RE of the error of RE's desires/agenda while at the same time I'm sure Ash will also admit that we are going to inevitably see these very same agendas carried out the world over.


In fact, I believe an explicit part of the NWO agenda is something very similar in structure and claimed motives to the OMMP. It will use economic/sociopolitical upheaval to justify radical, totalitarian policies that purport to take out the Old Order Trash and lead us towards a Utopia on Earth. Neither you, nor I nor anyone else here will be in charge of this movement. When you hear about it, you will be screaming "DON'T LISTEN TO THEM, THEY ARE LYING TO YOU!" - but the ignorant masses will not hear you. Many of them will follow right along and they will actively support the transition. Others will resist, for moral, ethical, spiritual, practical reasons, whatever - it doesn't matter - they will be deemed Defenders of the Old Order and dealt with accordingly.

The whole history of Homo Sapiens on Earth is one of EXTREME levels of Violence, through all recorded History that is true and you cannot deny it. If you are not prepared to do Violence when it becomes necessary to Win, you just will not WIN.


Some of us don't want to be stuck in a perpetual cycle of brutal Chess Games, believe it or not. Implicit in your analogy is the fact that, even if we use our few pieces to make the desperate moves that prolong the game, the game will simply continue, except now you will have two sets of pieces that are vying for global dominance through bloody warfare, and neither one of them will be good for the rest of us who are sitting by and watching it all go down, even though they will both CLAIM to be.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3403

  • Glennjeff
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Ash,

You appear to be arguing with a religious fanattic, less productive than arguing with a drunk, and all this time I doubted you for being hyper-rational. My Bad.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3412

Glennjeff wrote:

Ash,

You appear to be arguing with a religious fanattic, less productive than arguing with a drunk, and all this time I doubted you for being hyper-rational. My Bad.


First you insult me by calling me a "religious fanatic" and a "drunk", then you insult Ashvin for engaging in dialogue with me. At least when SB dropped in on this debate, he contributed something worthwhile. You just throw two sentences worth of low quality Napalm.

You wanna do some name-calling here? OK, fine. Scum sucking imbeciles like you give trolling a bad name. Go fuck yourself.

Ashvin wrote:
Some of us don't want to be stuck in a perpetual cycle of brutal Chess Games, believe it or not. Implicit in your analogy is the fact that, even if we use our few pieces to make the desperate moves that prolong the game, the game will simply continue, except now you will have two sets of pieces that are vying for global dominance through bloody warfare, and neither one of them will be good for the rest of us who are sitting by and watching it all go down, even though they will both CLAIM to be.


What you want is not a part of this. When an apple falls from a tree, it follows a path accelerating downward in a very predictable manner. Homo Sapiens is a little more complicated, but follows patterns that are quite predictable also, just like gravity. All you have to do is look at history without being encumbered by what you "want" coloring your perspective.

A dinosaur may want to be a bird with feathers and warm blood, but it doesn't happen overnight. Nor is Homo Sapiens going to evolve overnight into some Higher Organism that doesn't have the behaviors described so well by history. if I am going to produce a General Theory of Relativity, I am going to try to make it fit the facts. What I write fits the facts. Live with it.

RE
Last Edit: 11 months, 3 weeks ago by Reverse Engineer.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3414

  • ashvin
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RE,

I think we have said just about all there is to say on this one.

I shouldn't even have stipulated to the accuracy of your chess analogy in my last response, but I did...

Like I said before, we can customize analogies to fit our arguments all day. You say the OMMP is the equivalent of getting the pawns across the board and making them Queens, giving us a chance to win the ultimate game of Chess, and I obviously disagree completely.

Maybe someone else has thoughts on all this, but we're just going around in circles now.

I do not think the debate was counter-productive, though. It is very important to contemplate and discuss these issues now, because they WILL become our reality in one form or another.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3417

Agreed. We have covered this pretty well. Ialso think it has been very productive and illuminating. LOL.

Call it a Stalemate. We'll cross swords again another day.

RE

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3419

  • Glennjeff
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RE,

If you carefully deconstruct my sentence structure you may realise that i did not call anyone a drunk. I actually stated that arguing with a religious fanatic is less productive than arguing with a drunk.

I also do not believe that Ash would take offense at my commentary.

How childish is "You spoke to me and then you spoke to him, therefore you insulted him", Get a grip RE.

Amongst other things, smileys indicate a good natured / playfull approach to communicating.

A quote from a neo-religious text "A Course in Miracles"
"If you want peace, teach peace to learn it"

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3420

I got the sentence structure dimwit. The point of your whole 2 sentence post was to undermine everything written through an ad hom attack on the author, yours truly. You made ZERO worthwhile contribution to the disucssion and you drop in at the end to declare one of the authors a Religious Fanatic less worthwhile to debate than a drunk, and you insinuate that Ashvin is a fool for getting dragged into the debate.

Man, I have gone up against trolls on TBP who pull this kind of jackass stupidity every day as a means to disrupt valid discussion; and you are an amateur at it. You threw the first punch here and if you were capable of reading for comprehension you would know by now I have about ZERO interest in making peace with brain dead morons who make such attacks. Take your ad hom argument and stick it where the sun don't shine.

Have a Nice Day.

RE
Last Edit: 11 months, 3 weeks ago by Reverse Engineer.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3424

  • Glennjeff
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Oh, and why would I waste my time with an ad hominim, simple, you are an arsehole that refuses reasonable feedback, which was what Ash provided RE.

That is the reason that so many blogs have given you the boot.

By the way, Ultra high IQ, diverse high distinction education, multi talented, wealthy and a successful long term marriage.

I acknowlege your troll accusations, I am the troll of TAE, and I like to catch a nice fish every now and then.

Say goodnight sweetheart.
Last Edit: 11 months, 3 weeks ago by Glennjeff.
The following user(s) said Thank You: sensato

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 3 weeks ago #3431

Glennjeff wrote:


By the way, Ultra high IQ measured in negative imaginary numbers, Ultra tiny penis, diverse high distinction education blowing my Professors at Cambridge, multi talented bottom boy, wealthy in debt money and a successful long term marriage to my sister.


Fixed that for you.

RE
Last Edit: 11 months, 3 weeks ago by Reverse Engineer.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 2 weeks ago #3438

  • Glennjeff
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Have you considered seeking professional help RE?

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 2 weeks ago #3439

Glennjeff wrote:
Have you considered seeking professional help RE?


I don't need any professional help. I can return your napalm quite well on my own, especially when you drop a target like that down in a post.

RE

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 11 months, 2 weeks ago #3442

  • Glennjeff
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Well that was refreshing, made me laugh. Put more of that material into your routine, it's much better than the prefab adolescent toilet humour.

Seriously though, I know you want to get last word in, matches your personality type perfectly, everyone here knows the quality of your character, you made it perfecly clear with hateful profane invective. I achieved my goal.

Now I give you permission to make the last comment, have the last say that is the divine right of all great leaders of humanity appointed by God.
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