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TOPIC: There's only one way forward for Europe, and this isn’t it
There's only one way forward for Europe, and this isn’t it 8 months, 3 weeks ago #5512
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![]() As Groucho once put it: "I've had a perfectly wonderful evening, but this wasn't it." Vaclav Klaus is perhaps the only man out there I've seen so far who says the right things. Well, other than myself, that is. Chest thumping? I'm just worried, and increasingly so, by the level of complacency I witness every single day in whatever it is I see and read about Europe (I read a lot). People follow stock markets. In the sense that if the markets are doing fairly well, they think everything else must be doing fairly well too (like their own lives). And that's all they do. But you can't gauge European reality through looking at stock markets. That seems to me to be so obvious, and I've written about it numerous times, that the ongoing head in sand blinders become harder to bear every single day. We're not talking about the number of flatscreen TVs the Greeks and Spanish can buy, we're talking about their bare survival. That head in sand following of stock exchange digits is not smart, not for anyone. It allows for Ben Bernanke to claim he wants to attack unemployment - something that sounds good, beneficial - (but hardly his mandate to begin with), while all he actually does with QE 1,2,3,4,5, n..., is transfer bank losses to the public account. Ditto for Draghi. Central bankers don't help the nations they purport to represent, they represent the banks in those nations. And since the largest banks are multinationals, the central bankers largely represent international banking interests. Not you or me. Central banks are the ideal conduit for Grand Theft Auto. And they will remain so for as long as the people in the street can be fooled into thinking that it's their interests that are the focus of the bailouts. More jobs, cheaper mortgage loans, that sort of thing. It doesn’t stop, does it? I see a big coordinated push from builders, unions, banks, developers etc. for the yet to be formed new Dutch government to make it easier for more people to borrow more money, in the face of the 5% drop in sales and 8% drop in prices the country saw in 2011. And tons of people undoubtedly WANT to borrow more. Because they see no connection with the lower prices. On the contrary, they've been fed the idea that lower prices, like the entire recession, is something temporary, so they even see it as an opportunity. To buy more. To buy larger. 10 years ago Dutch home prices rose 20% per year, for years on end. And they all think that is some sort of new normal. Why the builders and banks think so is obvious. Why the buyers do, not so much. They are simply never told what is real. Not by builders, not by banks, and not by the people they voted into government. Well, here's your reality, homebuyers in Holland and everywhere else in the western world: you're signing up to be shoved into the lower ranks of a pyramid scheme. You will start losing your jobs, your benefits, your pensions, but your debts will remain as high as they are now. And if you can't pay them off, your debts will grow. Who should take preference when it comes to government protection and information, banks and industries, or the people? The official line of course is that if and when the government makes sure the banks and large industries do well, the people's interests will trickle down and follow. But we have seen five years, at the very least, of proof that this is bogus. You can pour behemoth amounts of money into your banking system, but if its debts are behemoth squared, nothing will trickle down. Oh wait, that's not true. Something will start trickling down. Debt.< /p> The people who are already knee and neck deep in obligations they will never be able to meet, have new debt laden on their shoulders every single day, and more so with every iteration of QE, and they will never be the wiser for it; the poorer all the more, however. Along the same lines, the EU is trying frantically to keep itself together, and most of all obviously the eurozone. Why? Because it puts the interests of the banks and industries before those of the people, just like the national governments do. It's even working hard to get more power over more aspects of life in member countries, especially financial aspects. Nothing could be worse for member states. Once you give away the freedom your ancestors fought so hard for, you'll have to fight the same battles all over again to get it back. Look, in the end it's real simple: the Germans and the Dutch don't really want to buy Greek products, they want the Greeks to buy theirs. But there’s no way, never was, that the Greeks can produce all the extra wealth they would need to buy those products. Selling off the Acropolis for cheap was always in the works. Not because the richer countries are so much smarter than the poorer, but because neither understand basic math. After all, how much olive oil can the average German household consume? Which leads us to the point that Greece doesn't have now, and never had, any long term reason to be in the eurozone. Nor do Portugal, Spain, Ireland and a bunch of other nations, for that matter. Italy is a different case: it simply screwed up big time. Thanks to the Vatican, the Cosa Nostra and all the links in between. Let's move on to Vaclav Klaus. Again. And again, let me say he's not my favorite man. Not even my fave Czech. He just happens to have the proper words. Here goes, as per Laura Zelenko for Bloomberg: Euro Can Bear Fewer Members as Czech Leader Calls Greeks Victims The exit of one or more member states from the euro won’t destroy the monetary union or the project of European integration, Czech President Vaclav Klaus said. And a Greek departure from the currency would be a “victory” for that country, which has been a victim of the monetary system, The Czech Republic, which pledged to adopt the euro as part of its agreement to join the European Union in 2004, is under no official deadline to do so and the question of joining the common currency is a “non-issue” in the country [..] “I don’t think the euro as a currency disappears,” [..] “The issue is whether all of the 17 countries and potentially a few others should be or will be in this system or not.” [..] the euro- zone system is punishing some countries that would be better off pulling out. “Greece is a victim of the monetary union,” he said. “It would be much better for them not to be in the straightjacket. It would be a victory for them.” [..] .. he supports European integration while not embracing the shift towards “unification, centralization, harmonization, standardization” of the whole continent, including the single currency. “We were aware of the fact that joining the euro system was one of the conditions. But we are quite happy with the fact that there was no timing." “So perhaps in the year 2074 we can join the European Monetary Union as well,” he said. “No one is pushing us.” [..] Poland, which three years ago shelved plans to join in 2013, deems the euro “completely unattractive,” Prime Minister Donald Tusk said in July. Hungary won’t adopt the currency before 2018, Premier Viktor Orban said in March. Bulgaria has indefinitely delayed plans to scrap the lev, Prime Minister Boyko Borisov told the Wall Street Journal [..] “It’s technically possible,” to manage the departure from a common currency, Klaus said. “It’s not true what all the politicians are saying about disastrous consequences. You have to do it in an organized way. You can’t allow an anarchy situation.” Before we get back to Klaus, here's a relevant quote from the Guardian: The Spanish public won't accept a financial coup d'etat Spanish citizen movements, like those in Greece, Ireland, Portugal, Italy and France have demanded a debt audit, to see who really owes what to whom. Opposition politician Cayo Lara is asking for any bailout conditions to be debated in parliament, while a group called Judges for Democracy are looking at whether the virtual deconstruction of the social state could be unconstitutional. Every single EU country should have a debt audit, it's just common sense. None are scheduled to have one, Why do you think that is? What Vaclav Klaus says, and what I've been saying for a while, is that letting, allowing, Greece and other PIIGS to leave the eurozone is not as big of a negative deal as the politicians and bankers make it out to be. Not from the point of view of those countries. The reason Merkel and Monti et al. keep on holding on to the Armageddon idea is that Greece, Spain, etc. leaving the EMU, will trigger actions in the financial world. There will be credit events, i.e. credit default swaps will have to be settled. Banks, governments, pension funds will have to write down losses. But those losses have already been incurred, they just haven't been put to paper. Creative accounting goes a long way, but not all the way. Of course, the EU and ECB will have to incur and declare losses on their PIIGS bond holdings too. The only way forward for the EU and the Eurozone is to let the weaker members leave, and to let them do that with grace, respect and dignity. Anything else is not just doomed to fail, it's doomed to incite violence. Europe has a long history, and it doesn't take much to evoke lots of that, any and all of that. Not something to leave in the hands of Mario Draghi, that's for sure. Look, I'll say it here and now and you can hold it against me on future developments: The EU must, make that capital MUST, not just allow, but facilitate for its weaker members to leave the eurozone. If it doesn't do that, it calls upon itself the wrath of the gods (Europe has lots of those). As per Draghi and Merkel and Monti et al., they have no plans for that kind of facilitating. Not because they like the Greeks so much, but because their banks would need to - at least partially - come clean; derivatives, don't you know. And those banks are far worse off and much more broke than anyone has been allowed to know. Unless a sufficiently large number of us wake up in time, as in right now, people will be shot to death in the streets of Athens and Barcelona just so the banks can continue to hide their losses. Is that the kind of world you want to live in? If not, why are you sitting in that chair? So yeah, you're right, there's more than one way forward for Europe. Most of them lead to futures ugly enough for all of us to reject right out of the bat. The one that doesn't is the only real way, and it requires for all of us, Europeans, Americans, everyone, to stand up and act. Too bad we're too busy counting our pieces of silver and gold.
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There's Only One Way Forward For Europe, And This Isn’t It 8 months, 3 weeks ago #5513
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Quote Ilargi "Too bad we're too busy counting our pieces of silver and gold."
Sir, There are the currency vigilantes and the "so called" bond vigilantes. Might I suggest the former are being a bit more Vigilant. Let's not even mention the stock market vigilantes, that's a group to be very pissed off at. |
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Re: There's Only One Way Forward For Europe, And This Isn’t It 8 months, 3 weeks ago #5515
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The gradually disappearing pension = Greenpeace cubed
Angela Merkel will go down in history as one of the great environmentalists. There's too much demand. How would you propose we reduce it, if not through the elimination of future consumption via bank handouts? A single Barclay's executive and his golden parachute can do only a finite amount of environmental damage (he can only eat so much steak and fly only so many miles). But 1000 pensioners with imagined wealth....now that's a lot of steak and a lot of trips to Tahiti. Too much, in fact. One way or another, we all need to put up with less. The Euro straightjacket is necessary. |
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Last Edit: 8 months, 3 weeks ago by Viscount St. Albans.
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Re: There's only one way forward for Europe, and this isn’t it 8 months, 3 weeks ago #5517
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Even if those Spanish pension funds are Bankrupt, Even if all the banks are bankrupt, it doesn't matter.
What matters is that those who are receiving a check continue to get a check. Making a budget is one thing but cutting off the checks is another thing. You might be able to reduce the check by 10% if it only means a cut of less than a few dollars. The result would be no worst demonstration than the present. However, if 10% represents millions for some powerfull individuals then you have individuals with the means of starting and funding a revolution. Can't let that happen. |
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Re: There's Only One Way Forward For Europe, And This Isn’t It 8 months, 3 weeks ago #5519
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Viscount St. Albans wrote:
The gradually disappearing pension = Greenpeace cubed Angela Merkel will go down in history as one of the great environmentalists. There's too much demand. How would you propose we reduce it, if not through the elimination of future consumption via bank handouts? A single Barclay's executive and his golden parachute can do only a finite amount of environmental damage (he can only eat so much steak and fly only so many miles). But 1000 pensioners with imagined wealth....now that's a lot of steak and a lot of trips to Tahiti. Too much, in fact. One way or another, we all need to put up with less. The Euro straightjacket is necessary. Hi Viscount, what you say is true, but the point you miss is that this system isn't the way to go. The rules laid down for the common folk are not applied for the oligarch folk. They want to limit our showers while they possess private trains and multiple yachts that burn more= fuel in a day than a typical American in a year. And let's not talka bout heating their 5 castles. Tyranny is on the run - and if it isn't quelled... demand will almost assuredly be cut off more than you can ever imagine... but it won't be done nicely and it won't be done to the oligarchs. |
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Re: There's only one way forward for Europe, and this isn’t it 8 months, 3 weeks ago #5520
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autoearthadmin wrote:
but hardly his mandate to begin with Now we are getting somewhere. The entire media, and by "entire" I mean ENTIRE, falsely portrays the Federal Reserve mandate as a dual mandate to keep stable prices and unemployment low. This has been true for decades. All the while the Fed broke its true, singular mandate and, as a direct result, criminally helped to create the worlds largest credit bubble in human history... all with complete cover of the media. Education is silent on this issue. Politicians are silent on this issue. Religions are silent on this issue. What kind of systemic POWER does all this imply? BTW, I can't think of anyone who root causes the problem better than Bill Still. Bill Still - Hour 1 - The Money Masters & The Secret of Oz www.redicecreations.com/radio/2012/08/RIR-120823.php Ilargi, IMHO, your commentary and insight into how this fraudulent, Debt Money Tyranny operates is excellent, but Bill's pounding the table on the root cause... private control of the money supply, money defined as debt and fractional reserve debt money counterfeiting... points the way towards a more clear understanding of a workable solution. Societies need debt free, sovereign money where the quantity of money is controlled for the benefit of society. By definition, this will require a mass educated populace. |
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Last Edit: 8 months, 3 weeks ago by TheTrivium4TW.
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There's Only One Way Forward For Europe, And This Isn’t It 8 months, 3 weeks ago #5521
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Sorry, not to be rude... but this seems more like a 'Commentary' than a 'Feature'.
My understanding was that commentaries would be short articles based on the viewpoint of TAE authors, while features would be more in depth, providing multiple sources, and possibly even educational in nature. Perhaps I've misunderstood the delineation between the two... |
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Re: There's only one way forward for Europe, and this isn’t it 8 months, 3 weeks ago #5522
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TheTrivium4TW wrote:
Ilargi, IMHO, your commentary and insight into how this fraudulent, Debt Money Tyranny operates is excellent, but Bill's pounding the table on the root cause... private control of the money supply, money defined as debt and fractional reserve debt money counterfeiting... points the way towards a more clear understanding of a workable solution. Triv, are you under the impression that TAE is here for the purpose of finding "solution[s]"? That's not my understanding of their goal. |
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There's Only One Way Forward For Europe, And This Isn’t It 8 months, 3 weeks ago #5523
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Ilargi -
People follow stock markets. In the sense that if the markets are doing fairly well, they think everything else must be doing fairly well too (like their own lives). And that's all they do. But you can't gauge European reality through looking at stock markets. I have to ask, who is "people" here? Ok, that was a rhetorical question. I fully realize that the use of the word "people" in the phrase "People follow stock markets" is similar to the phrase "some people say" used heavily at Fox News: As mentioned in the video, its a pretty useful way for someone to state one's own opinion without actually saying its just an opinion. It can also facilitate constructing a strawman argument which is then promptly destroyed. Let me try one of my own: "People think that I'm the coolest guy ever." I have to say, I like it! |
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Last Edit: 8 months, 3 weeks ago by davefairtex.
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There's Only One Way Forward For Europe, And This Isn’t It 8 months, 3 weeks ago #5524
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I've been looking for a way to find people with similar concerns in my local are and recently discovered this new function of local groups on Chris Martenson's site. I would love to see Automatic Earth have a similar function. Until that time this seems like a good way to find like minded people in your area. Would love to connect with other AE readers in NYC.
It's under resilient life/ groups www.peakprosperity.com/groups?distance[postal_code]=11372&distance[country]=us&distance[search_distance]=5&distance[search_units]=mile&name=&title= |
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Re: There's only one way forward for Europe, and this isn’t it 8 months, 3 weeks ago #5526
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And, so, now that the bill is due for the biggest, wildest party the world has ever attended, the common communes are purging the less productive (useful?) from their midst, since they come with the largest debt baggage. Did they really believe the 55 retirement age, and the rest of the gravy could go on forever? That they could simply paint radio dials on rocks and summon more? (cargo cult) Or was it just too much fun to rein in before it imploded?
Debt based consumption has always been an illusion. Fiat based money is what makes it all possible. A couple key words I picked up here in the post and comments, "Controlled" "Protection" Governments function as protector of the bankers vs. protector of the public? I see governments ideal roll as provider of a strong judicial system for settlement of contracts, but certainly not as preemptive "protector" of any special interest, public or private, against those who otherwise enjoy the personal liberty and opportunity to make it on their own. Maybe the "protection" powers assigned governments resulted in this malfunction of perceptions of what is real in the first place? More insurance=more risk? Isn't that what derivatives were all about? Or the confidence, government would always save us if we ran into trouble? "A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have." Gerald Ford, before congress. Humm, the same fellow who let us prols own AU again just like the big banks? Wonder he didn't walk the plank for that. Are central banks really all to blame here? Is a scorpion to blame for stinging the tortoise who transports him across the river, upon reaching the other side? Isn't that what scorpions do? And how convenient. A congress shucks it's monetary responsibilities off on a central bank, freeing it up to fund it's own special interest, with no political repercussion. "Well, the Fed let me do it?" Of course, every coin has two sides. Imagine a congress controlled fiat currency in an election year? But I must digress..."When the Student is Ready, the Teacher will Appear." Buddhist Saying. Ilargi. Do you really think, at these opening salvos of the confiscation of unpaid for candy, by governments and their friends, from the public that thought it was all a new paradigm, taking up arms is wise? OK, if you are Canadian, maybe, as the government (people) will cover your medical expenses, but it will still hurt, won't it? And, at this point, with so many special interest factions developing on the streets out there, how could you know you are not making the cure worse than the disease? Was there, after all, a borrower out here for every lender in there? OK, not me, because I don't do debt, but somebody enabled the system, no? I can't choose either side in this conundrum. But, it's hard to tango without a partner. Again, Confucius, "Of the 10 ways to avoid trouble, the best is to leave." Not run, mind you, just back off and contemplate. I have been there, and wouldn't be here if I had not taken time to reflect on what I thought I saw. Would we be like Ben and Mario, and open fire with all we had on the get go, or wait and see how deep they dig themselves into their hole, then simply kick the dirt in on them, if the banks (dual meaning) don't cave in on them first? Bolshevik's? NAZI's? Did the ends really justify the means? I propose keeping our powder dry, until foes use theirs up, and are weakened. Is that the same as sitting around and counting "gold and silver?" Or by converting their currencies of mass destruction into future independence, are we doing more of a public service? Do we need more walking wounded on the dole, or more folks opting out of their MSM enabled act, leaving them to their own devices? Don't get me wrong, you are doing the saints work here in helping expose this charade. There will be a place for you in "your" heaven. That you are frustrated proves your passion. Can the same be said for martyrs? "Dead men don't tell tales" Blackbeards Parrot? OK. What are we doing to avoid the obligation that comes with accepting their "generosity?" Check engine light came on on the pick up the other day. Figured it would cost the $100 minimum to diagnose the government mandated "check engine light" code. Found out I could get an OBD scanner at sears for around $71. Wow, I get paid $29 to learn to use it, and I can charge my friends and neighbors half shop rates, 'till "Armageddon" clears out, to diagnose theirs. (will diagnose produce truck for food?) Said I had a defective diesel injection pump. Got two bids. One at $3800, the other slightly higher. So, I "googled" the pump and got it on the way for $1260. Meanwhile, I surfed around and downloaded a how to blurb, determined I could do the job with a basic sears mechanic tool set, on sale for $99. My net surfing time (TAE Comments?) only suffered the 7 hours it took me to get it done and running. Now, I have gained a potentially marketable experience. And I was "paid" $2370 to learn something. Have OBD, will travel! Oh, and PU is still paid for, as it has been these last 12 years Next real life plan? |
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Last Edit: 8 months, 3 weeks ago by Professorlocknload. Reason: incomplete sentence
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There's Only One Way Forward For Europe, And This Isn’t It 8 months, 3 weeks ago #5527
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The problem si, Václav Klaus underestimates the scenario when the financial markets go into "domino effect". The thing is our brilliant and awesome president is in fact strongly against the EU (this sentence is a pure lie: "...he supports European integration"), look at his public speeches. This guy is completely insane, well, I should rather say completely corrupted and squeezed by the former KGB and current Russian intelligence service having discrediting material on him (well, almost everyone knows that in the 80s he used to visited gay clubs, his nickname was Kikina, the thing is it has never been publicly releaved). His opinions are strongly pro-Russian, he is a good friend of Peter Kellner, a billioner who belongs to one of the 100th richest man of the planet (owing the PPF concern that has many bussiness interests in Russia - energy, rings a bell here, hm? - recently in China, too). Look, what Klaus just said about China today, I will translate it for you, right? Look, they are not that bad these Chinese people, we want to do bussiness with them (="Mr. Kellner wants to") so we need to adore Mao-Tse for that reason. (I am not kidding!) So you need to, while quoting Klaus, widen at least a bit your perspective. It helps, believe me. Klaus' rhetorics is strongly antiEU and he damns know why (not to mention he is a father of the so called privatization, in other words implementing of the Chicago doctrine into our economics that allowed stealing of billions of crowns from our state, you know tunneling that is the word we started to use for it, and he still is a very good and close friend of different Czech mafiosis, godfathers, believe me, the Czech Republic is completely capture state, I can name tens godfathers, really sad situation). One can read something more on Kellner and his position and about Klaus and his opinions here:
aktualne.centrum.cz/czechnews/clanek.phtml?id=746021 www.economist.com/blogs/easternapproaches/2012/03/czech-corruption aktualne.centrum.cz/czechnews/clanek.phtml?id=757353 www.economist.com/blogs/easternapproaches/2012/09/czech-politics-0#comments |
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Re: There's only one way forward for Europe, and this isn’t it 8 months, 3 weeks ago #5528
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Professorlocknload wrote:
...Are central banks really all to blame here? Is a scorpion to blame for stinging the tortoise who transports him across the river, upon reaching the other side? Isn't that what scorpions do? I remember the story goes a bit more like, "The frog offers to take the scorpion to the other side of the river after the scorpion promises not to sting. Half way across, the frog feels the burning poison in his back and exclaims, "Scorpion! Why did you sting me? Now we will both drown." And the scorpion replies, "It is my nature." I only like that version because it underlines how ultimately neither the frog nor the scorpion win in this game. |
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Last Edit: 8 months, 3 weeks ago by skipbreakfast.
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Re: There's only one way forward for Europe, and this isn’t it 8 months, 3 weeks ago #5529
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Skip,Re; Scorpion, I'll go with that. Point is, consent absolute power to any entity, and it will sting you. Mid stream, or if it has any sense, after it gets what it wants from you. Seems the scorpion presently on our backs is just trying to get to the other side, at our expense. They believe once the loot is securely in their vaults, we are at their mercy, as they trickle it out to us again What they haven't figured out is, over the long run, they need us. As Ilargi noted, we have passed peak credit, ie; peak financialization. When the dust settles, the unemployment rate is going to rise on Wall Street, for a change.
Ever see a banker on the end of a shovel? Not a pretty sight! Can you imagine one attempting to unclog his sewer line? Changing the oil in the Beamer? Patching a leaky roof on the McMansion? |
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Re: There's only one way forward for Europe, and this isn’t it 8 months, 3 weeks ago #5531
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This is the perceived "One Way Out For Europe" and all other indebted nations. Food for thought for anyone "banking" on deflation. IMHO, this piece of MSM conveyed Central Bank information is universal across all indebted borders.
finance.yahoo.com/news/bernanke-says-fed-keep-rates-163016026.html Also, I edited the incomplete sentence in my previous question to Ilargi re; 'Is it wise' [to take up arms.] |
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Palm Beach Hall 7.30pm
June 6 Nelson
St Joseph’s Hall, Manuka St, 7.30pm
June 7 Port Motueka
Baycourt 7.30pm
June 9 Christchurch
WEA Rooms, 59 Glouscester St. 6.30pm
June 11 Christchurch
Polytechnic for Technology, Imagitech Theatre 12pm
June 12 Christchurch
BHU Organic Centre, Lincoln University 12.10pm
June 13 Timaru
Aoraki Polytechnic, Arthur Street 3pm
June 16 Oamaru
Oamaru Opera House. Thames St 10am
June 18 Dunedin
Pine Hill School Hall, 11 Hislop St, Pine Hill 7.30pm
June 19 Dunedin
Burns 2 Lecture Theatre, 95 Albany Street, University of Otago 6pm
June 22 Auckland
TBA TBA
June 24 Auckland
TBA TBA
US Fall 2013 - Dates Available
Request Lectures: StoneleighTravels •at• gmail •dot• com.
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