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Mortgage Principal Relief comes to Ireland.....

Government proposes easing bankruptcy penalties too.....

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dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/10/08/ireland-mortgage-bill-aims-to-aid-owners-and-jump-start-economy/

Money Quotes:
The Irish government expects to pass a law this year that could encourage banks to substantially cut the amount that borrowers owe on their mortgages........
Under the new rules, it will be less onerous to declare bankruptcy, making it easier for people to walk away from their homes altogether.

Wow, Irish finally get principal relief, AND bankruptcy. That's really good news for them, well mostly anyway.

Back of the envelope calculation: the Irish Bad Bank owns about 70B (face value) in mortgage notes of a total of 120B in total Irish mortgage debt. Now with Principal Relief, who pays for this? That would be the Irish taxpayers, at least for 59% of it.

Now I'm a big fan of principal relief, don't get me wrong. Its just - amusing to see that it only happened long after most of the mortgage debts were transferred to the bad bank.

What ever happened to creditors taking losses?

It has taken me a few weeks, but I've completed a first pass analysis of the different countries in MENA that have either staged revolutions or are engaged in civil wars, etc, and compared them with the current Greek situation. My top-line thought is, unless something major changes its not gonna happen in Greece - based on it not happening in other MENA nations that had either higher incomes, less corruption, more social spending, and a few other euro-specific factors I think are also critical.

	GREECE	"Revolting" MENA
Avg age	43	22
Per Capita GDP	28,000	3,200
Democracy+Corruption Index	48	121
Social Spending as %Govt Spending	32%	17% (approx)

Last point. A poll was conducted in March 2012. While only 17% of Greeks reported "my situation is good" (74% of Germans thought so), only 23% of Greeks said they wanted to leave the Euro. They were angry about a whole laundry list of other things about the eurozone (Germany, the ECB, economic control from Brussels, on and on) but on that one key issue - leaving the eurozone - they overwhelmingly wanted to stay. More than ANY other country polled, they wanted to stay.

I think that last detail is critical. Unless that last bit changes, it will be a bunch of relatively well off middle-aged men (compared to people in MENA anyway) sitting around in their cafes and complaining over coffee about the dreadful decrease in social spending, while in MENA it will be a horde of really poor (and immortal-feeling) 20 year old boys getting guns and shooting people because they really don't have enough money to buy food, so they've got nothing to lose.

Situation is similar in Spain; avg age 41, per capita GDP 31k, social spending about 30% of govt spending, and a pretty flat GINI coefficient of 32. (US is 45, right up there with China at 48).

Old people don't revolt, especially if what they REALLY want to do is to stay in the eurozone.

Of course, this could always change. Best to watch polling numbers for the "leave the euro" parties and see how things transpire.

No credit for the picture at the top of the page?

Police flee from Madrid protestors:



Nice to see them going the other way!

A possible example of "missing the important bits" from Mish today. In his post he talked about the protests against Merkel in Greece and what it signified.

Looking at poll data, its easy to see why these protests occurred. When asked, "do you have a favorable opinion of Germany", only 21% of Greeks said yes. The rest of the zone polled: Italy had a score of 67%, and they were the lowest. France was highest (higher even than GERMANY) at 84%. The French really respect the Germans.

But the Greeks don't like Germany (79%). They don't like the crisis handling skills of Merkel (86%) Sarkozy (83%) Cameron (84%) or their own leader (68%). They don't like the ECB (80%). They don't like EU budgetary oversight (75%), and they blame their own government (90%) for their current troubles. Talk about some cognitive dissonance!

But they love the euro (71%) and they REALLY love bailouts (91%). Highest reported values in this particular poll for both categories.

Amazing.

Do you think there will be a revolution in Greece to support leaving the zone? Not if these numbers stand. If you were Greek, and you loved the euro AND bailouts, why on earth would you support revolution? Protest against the hated Merkel: sure, its an easy sell. But perhaps we shouldn't over-interpret what the implications of these protests really are.

I'm not an advocate for a position, its just the conclusions I've drawn from the data I've seen. If you look at the same data and draw a different conclusion, I'd be interested to hear it.

And of course if things change on the ground, I reserve the right to change my conclusion.

Raw data:

www.pewglobal.org/2012/05/29/chapter-2-views-of-european-unity/

@ Dave, Following up on your poll analysis

Re: Greeks and the Euro

Psychological Research indicates the pain of loss exceeds the pleasure of gain by at least a factor of 2.

In other words: the pain of losing $50 is felt more acutely than the pleasure of gaining $100.

Exiting the Euro = Absolute Certain Loss (Euro become much less valuable Drachma).

Exiting the Euro = Very Uncertain Gain. (Maybe, eventually, after the violence, banking collapse, chaos, martial law, military coup, etc.)......the economy will grow and the Drachma will be worth something.

Given this dynamic, it's not surprising people will fight like hell before they agree to relinquish what they've worked for (their savings in the form of stable currency). Even if they only have a few Euros saved in the bank.....they worked for them......and they don't want to watch them devalue.

Hey, hey. Principal reduction. If it happened here, would I be "entitled" to a rebate? After having put in 50 hour weeks for 44 years so I could pay cash for my home? Is this the stuff of great societies? Is this a lesson that he who over extends himself the most, wins?

Savings is now discouraged, so there will be no source of capital base, only government ponzi loans and credit, dumped on the public?

Two over extended mortgage holders and an investor in GNMA's voting on who's for dinner?

What in hell has gone wrong with this world? What kind of message does that send? Reduce their balance, so they can extend their debt even further. Reward speculation.

In the past, I have carried back, down payments to help out honest folk who were prudent in their housing decisions. NEVER would I EVER risk that in this irresponsible environment. Making an effort to help out in a mutually accepted transaction, and being commanded to take a hit, after the fact?

But, got to ask, who owns all that toilet paper? Certainly not the banks! Not any more. Principal write downs will certainly send a message to all those union, government pension managers (and pensioners, and annuitants) who own all that paper, eh? Of course, in this environment, all the private IRA's will most likely need be redistributed to those same pensions as well. It's only "fair." More of them, than of us, no?

Where I come from, you bite off more than you can chew, you get spanked.

No checks and balances any longer. Never you fear, Nanny State will cover your errors. Deeper and deeper it progresses, until the guns come out and settle the score. Meanwhile, time to sell out of mortgage backed bonds and annuities. These political geniuses won't want to be out done by an economic power house like Ireland. Do you know where your pension is?

"What could possibly go wrong," right?

@ Basseterre , on the illustration.

I believe it's Don Quixote, painted by

Honoré Daumier



With a scene from Zorba The Greek transposed over, and not sure of the watermark like images in the foreground. Appears to be derived from three sources.

Zorba as one of my favorite fiicks, and Don being my "mentor," I would be curious to know any more you find out.

Professor-

Bankruptcy is a form of principal forgiveness. It comes with a price - no ability to obtain a loan for a period of time. Other forms include principal writedowns to current market value - and there are a lot of ways to skin that particular cat that allows the holder of the mortgage to participate in the potential upside if and when the house is sold for a profit.

Anything that skips the whole foreclose & sell cycle (which is a guaranteed loss for everyone involved, except for the folks picking up the pieces on the other side) would seem to be a whole lot more efficient from a systemic point of view, too.

Honestly, the smartest guys in the room were the people making the loan, in every one of these home mortgage situations. They should have known better, period.

Nations can default, companies can default - why not homeowners? Christianity teaches forgiveness, and allegedly some vast majority of the people in these countries are Christian, yet why is it so difficult when it applies to borrowers?

Its true that "some people" are more comfortable with debtors prisons; its the ultimate form of spanking for those who reneg on their obligations. An excellent deterrent to such behavior.

Personally, I'm not in debt, so I don't have a dog in the hunt, but until big chunks of principal forgiveness (in whatever form) takes place, we're not getting out of this mess we're in.

Viscount -

I can agree with the psychological research you bring up, it seems to be a basic part of human nature.

That's no doubt in play here - you could also summarize that as "a euro in the hand is worth a fistful of drachma of uncertain value in the future." Better the devil you know than the even bigger devil you remember from the past!

But I think there's more here as well.

Greeks really don't trust their government. They believe their country is the most corrupt country in the eurozone. Of course the Spanish think this about Spain, Italians think this about Italy, but it turns out the Greeks are the ones who are right based on yet another survey I found. When asked who is to blame for the problems, overwhelmingly the Greek government is identified (87%) - banks are a distant second (39%).

So my interpretation is, Greeks see the euro as an important check against their own government's corruption and penchant for mismanagement. Not the ECB, not Brussels, not Germany - the Euro.

Should we keep the Euro or return to our old currency?
Greece: 71%
France: 69%
Germany: 66%
Spain: 60%
Italy: 52%

Bassaterre, Prof L'nL,

I did indeed use Daumier's Don Quixote and two pics from Zorba. The bottom one is the face of Irene Papas in the film.

@Dave, maybe where you live loans are recourse, which might result in a double whammy. But I would imagine that fact would have been in the mortgage document, so caveat emptor on that. Here in Cally, these notes are, for the most part non recourse, meaning one can simply walk, free as a bird, whereby, if the bank will ever permit it, the balance gets marked to market and it's over. Hmm, lesson for the banks.

I haven't heard of anyone going to prison over failure to honor their mortgage commitment, but maybe Ireland is different.

I understand bankruptcy. I have been victimized more than once by professional bankruptcy scammers. Every 7 years, like clockwork, they run with other peoples (my) money. Sure, there are cases where one might come down with an illness or be disabled in some way, but the abuses are there on a very large scale. Nothing like walking up the steps, around the Hummer, of a $1.5 million mansion, put into protection from creditors by some general contractor who didn't pay me, to sign papers, to make one understand human nature.

My point is, if a contract is signed between two people or entities, and one side does not honor it, that is breach of contract. If this breach is not remedied by some semblance of a Rule of Law, you have no enforcement of contracts, therefor, no justice system, leading ultimately to corruption and collapse of a free society. Mexico comes to mind here, as I have friends who own commercial properties and businesses down there, and will attest to the reasons it will never be a prosperous nation until a strong rule of law is adopted, meaning a credible judicial system.

One cannot sign a contract, then use force of the state to renege on it just because, on a whim, he doesn't like the terms after the fact. There are more parties involved in a mortgage transaction than just the debtor. For the state to intervene into the agreement and forgive principal is sanctioned theft from the creditor (taxpayer?). This is the same moral hazard that was TARP, TWIST and is QE.

Let's play with this for a second. I buy a truck for $50,000 and finance it for 60 months, nothing down. Now, I pick up a copy of the Kelly Blue Book a year later and find the truck is now worth $20,000. But I still owe over $40,000 on it. Am I entitled to a principal write down? If so, would you please loan me the money, I need a new truck

Seems when the perception is real estate only goes up, they are lined up like drunks at happy hour to take on debt. Out bidding each other, in some cases. But when it goes the other way, then the devil made them do it. Bottom line...don't spend more than you are willing to lose (or than you agree to pay back). This is life, as opposed to some fantastic dream of obtaining riches without working for them. This lesson must be conveyed, or we'll have hell to pay. Well, unless you are in government.

Oh, and, I'm not Jesus. I don't have to forgive anyone

ps. All my life I have been given every offer under the sun to over extend myself as far as Pie Town, NM. In business credit, home equity lines, charge cards, you name it. I do not hold these offers against those who made them, because it would have been my own signature on the bottom line. By the same token, I take personal credit for not taking them up on it all.

Poverty?

As the administration has now taken to rule by executive order, and the legislative is wholly owned by the same industries as the administration, with the judicial supporting all, protected by a nasty military, my concern is not poverty.

My chief concern now (I don't do fear) is tyranny. That's poverty with a shovel in your hand and a gun to your head, as you dig your own grave.
www.artmontana.com/article/steele/hisown.html

And if the great American public doesn't soon stop demanding of it's captors, cradle to grave security and protection, tyranny will come visit them, to help out, mind you.


This was, of course, for their own protection.
www.slideshare.net/guest67c0092/warsaw-ghetto-art-presentation

Off thread, but always a fun read, to me at least. From back in the days I was like Stoneleigh and Ilargi, wandering around with my "end is nigh" sandwich board, questioning myself about why I wasn't Gaw, Gaw over Real Estate like all the "Normal" people.

They were all so happy with their new Chevy Suburbans and vacation homes, and here I was, old rusty truck and paid off house. "Open a HELOC" they said. "Have some fun." I read this hot off the press and considered myself vindicated. That was in 2004. The peak was hit in late 04, early 2005.

Read it to the end, or it will fly right over you. Or don't. It's a classic in my book because it so well elucidated the spirit of the frenzy back then.

www.lewrockwell.com/orig3/blumen4.html

Professor -

In Ireland, which was the original source of the discussion point, loans are full recourse, which is why I brought it all up.

Professor, I'd go with your "rule of law" thing if the rules and the laws were applied evenly. They aren't. All the immense, widespread, egregious fraud engaged in by the lenders during the bubble along with the rest of the "smartest guys in the room" remains unprosecuted by our Rule of Law system. And yet we're focused on getting that last nickel out of the borrower, lest sacred contract law be breeched.

So yes, I favor as part of bankruptcy law a cramdown provision where as a part of a general personal bankruptcy the principal on home loans get written down to fair market value. Its not a freebee for the borrower, but it is a realistic way for the debt burden to be adjusted to something sustainable without having to go through the costs of foreclosure, which ends up costing everyone involved more money.

As for you being repeatedly victimized by bankruptcy scammers, it would seem to me that doing business with (and/or extending credit to) a serial bankruptcy declarer is a - how do I say this politely - a risky practice. You might consider avoiding doing business with such people in the future.

Just some free business advice.

Why, sweet jesus, has Stoneleigh gone underground?

Hi All,

Word "on the street" is that the Fed plans to leverage up the "face value" of the MBSes and buy up the interest rate swaps from the Money Power's banking front corporations... That's about $400,000 million in interest rate swaps the mega banks can offload onto the tax payer every single month.

Keep your ear to the ground to see if you can confirm this. This is big time looting by the criminal cartel if they are taking this "Art of War" program operational.

Professorlocknload wrote:


I concur. This is especially true when one does a little research into who inspired Hitler's eugenics ideas and who funded and promoted Hitler and even Stalin. And who helped to put Pol Pot and Mao in power...

"One is impressed immediately by the sense of national harmony [of dictator controlled slaves].... Whatever the price of the Chinese Revolution [between 60-80 million lives of men, women and children] it has obviously succeeded... in fostering high morale [productive slaves] and community purpose [slaves that follow orders]. General social and economic progress is no less impressive [the oligarchs had plenty of wealth stripped from the slaves]....The enormous social advances of China [oligarch heaven, plenty of organ donors in political prison camps, slaves that followed orders en masse, while living in poverty] have benefited greatly form the singleness of ideology and purpose.... The social experiment in China under Chairman Mao's leadership is one of the most important and successful in history."
David Rockefeller, New York Times, 8-10-1973.

This is the mindset of the Money Power who have used Debt Money Tyranny to seize a huge amount of western world control.

Professorlocknload wrote:


FYI - Refi loans are recourse in CA. Only the original loan is non-recourse.

Lesson for the banks? Not the mega banks! They are offloading their MBSes to the Federal Reserve to the tune of $40,000 million a month - and you can bet your bottom dollar that zero value 2nd mortgage MBSes and non recourse loans are the first to be transferred to the wholly ignorant and apathetic public that is a willing victim in this crime spree.

Apparently, all Hitler needed was a corporate front scheme and nice suit and tie in order to seize world control from an apathetic populace.

A little birdie is out saying these MBSes will be leveraged to buy up interest rate swaps from mega banks for top dollar - you know, maybe about $400 billion a month or so.

There is more than one version of Trojan Horse. This is Sun Tzu, Art of War to a "T."

davefairtex wrote:


Hi Dave, has it ever occurred to you that the "mess we're in" is precisely the objective of the social engineers?

Does it ever occur to farmer John's chickens that the cage they are in is precisely the objective of their social engineer?

Regarding the Greeks liking the Euro... populations like bubbles. The Euro has represented as much since its inception.

Populations are not good at long term thinking the likes of, "all bubbles eventually end in approximately inversely proportional busts, therefore, bubbles are bad."

They want to live the impossible dream... forever... without thinking it through.

Well, the social engineers know this and use it as an attack medium to destroy societies so they can consolidate the wealth under their front corporations and seize control of the country.

But don't worry, this is all "random." After all, there is no conspiracy in spite of the entirety of previous human history is all about conspiracy to control populations.

How do we know? The Money Power owned and financed media tells us so and proles can't think out of their media engineered box.

Trivium -

Hi Dave, has it ever occurred to you that the "mess we're in" is precisely the objective of the social engineers?

Lots and lots of things have occurred to me over my lifetime. Certainly, that is one of them. Since I'm not in possession of the secret handshake, and I've not been invited to any of the the meetings, I can't properly judge what is and what is not a precise objective of the social engineers - or if said group exists, or if said group is organized, uniform, etc. For those who are NOT in said group or have specific knowledge of actual events that have occurred at said meeting, assuming you have relatively complete knowledge of its motivations and inner workings seems ... well lets just say that's just not my style. I'm a data-driven guy.

For instance, I can speculate why the Greeks want to stay in the eurozone (and I definitely do speculate) but I don't have the hubris to pretend that I really KNOW why this is the case. And honestly, it's quite enough for me to know that they currently want to stay. Speculation is really for amusement purposes only. There's data, and there's speculation, and I know which is which.

To me, your assertions on all of these "social engineering" matters stray far outside any data I personally have, so I normally choose not to go there. As far as I know, you could be right, you could be wrong, you could be right about direction and wrong on intent - how could I possibly assess for myself what is correct since I have seen you present no actual information at all, just naked assertion. And to me, naked assertion does not constitute reliable data.

Clearly you are convinced of your position. I'm certainly not debating it with you - I can't, because I have no information with which to do that. And that's about all I can say on this subject.

davefairtex wrote:


Hi Dave, I didn't mean to offend. I'm a data guy, too, with an aptitude for micro-economics (my favorite class in school and I'm a process engineer by trade).

You know, in general, why the Greeks tend to want to stay in the Euro. They think it benefits them. That's basic, basic economics theory, not some wild ride of the imagination. Right?

So, why would they think the Euro benefits them when it is a debt backed currency that is engineered to bankrupt them? Using logic applied to the known data, we can reasonably surmise that the temporary ability to buy lots of stuff was really cool and they want to try and keep that party going and avoid the pain of going back to their own currency post Euro bubble relative to their own currency.

This is basic economics on a broad level, not some wild eyed speculation based upon nothing - at least IMHO.

What they apparently don't understand, like the Argentinians before them who fell for the same bubble / bust trap, is that the bubble is seductive poison before the toxic after effects take place.

The Euro is engineered to enslave Greeks, as well as Germans, too. Debt Money Tyranny only enriches the tyrants in the end - and the average person is not a tyrant.

You should also know that the Federal Reserve has blown a criminal bubble and seriously lied about their mandate for 30 years running. Criminals commit black letter law crimes and then lie about it to cover it up.

Here's the data, being that we are both data people:

market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=207083

Stratpage.com searth "Federal Reserve Act Section 2A" and then read about their true mandate being to keep monetary and credit aggregates commensurate with the long term national production potential - NOT TO TAKE IT EXPONENTIAL TO.

The data and logic make it clear that the bubble was criminally undertaken. The lies to cover it up and the lies trying to avoid accountability prove it so beyond any reasonable doubt.

These same criminals oversee Debt Money Tyranny - which is engineered to systematically asset strip society and subjugate them, which is pretty obvious in this chart:

www.keepandshare.com/doc/4768883/debtmoneytyranny-6-1-pdf-60k?tr=77

Now, if you expect the criminals to come right out and lay out all the details of their plan in public before you will believe them to be criminals... that's an unreasonable condition because criminals don't do that very often. Like, almost never.

You have to engage the data and the logic and remove the contradictions in a reasoned way.

That's our job as critical thinking free entities who are trying to avoid the enslavement that always seems loom too close for comfort.

Hi Prof LnL,

Some data points and logic to ponder...

"The best way to control the opposition is to lead it."
~Vladimir Lenin

The Libertarian Party: A Rothchild Hack?
market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=212587

Tragedy and Hope (highly recommended reading, you can search the web for delicious quotes from Georgetown University history professor Carroll Quigley's book - the guy who influences Presidents)

archive.org/details/TragedyAndHope

Always keep your head on a swivel. Always be very suspect of anything big and well financed.

Trivium -

So, why would they think the Euro benefits them when it is a debt backed currency that is engineered to bankrupt them? Using logic applied to the known data, we can reasonably surmise that the temporary ability to buy lots of stuff was really cool and they want to try and keep that party going and avoid the pain of going back to their own currency post Euro bubble relative to their own currency.

No. We cannot "reasonably surmise." That's just your guess, based on...your guess. One of many possible guesses that might be equally valid.

I believe you engage in this sort of thinking often. You make a lot of unsupported claims, ones that rely almost completely on you starting from the premise that a criminal conspiracy exists, and then you interpret the evidence (which might have alternative and equally valid interpretations) as support for this alleged conspiracy. They call this technique the Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy.

Let's use Greece as an example. You surmised it was all about restarting party time. Another guess (just as valid, in my eyes) as to why Greeks might want to stay with the euro might be, the Greek people found the drachma to be a terrible currency where the government stole value from them egregiously through inflation, and those that have pensions or government jobs remember this, and really don't want them inflated away.

Given the median age is 43, they likely remember the drachma quite well, their population pyramid sucks (they have a metric ton of old people there), and so they may well be focused much more on keeping what they have, and substantially less on re-igniting party time.

I'm not saying this is The Correct Explanation - I'm just trying to point out your claim of "reasonably surmising" is just your guess, and is one of many reasonable (and conflicting) guesses that can be made about the evidence. It's definitely not the only reasonable choice.

I see this to be the case all throughout your reasoning about your criminal conspiracy. Interpretations - reasonable interpretations - that don't support your starting theory of criminal conspiracy are simply dismissed.

These same criminals oversee Debt Money Tyranny - which is engineered to systematically asset strip society and subjugate them, which is pretty obvious in this chart:

A good example of the Texas Sharpshooter. You're starting from the conclusion and working backward.

Here is an alternate interpretation. The credit money system evolved during a time of exponential growth. There was a NEED for an ever-growing amount of money in the system. This system worked pretty well during our exponential growth period throughout industrialization and our subsequent growth in energy resources. It just grew like topsy. The guys in charge tried to fix the bits that failed periodically as best as they could incrementally, and the ones in charge are trying to keep things working based on their 200 years of understanding on How Stuff Works in Credit Money Land. Now that energy resources aren't growing exponentially anymore, Credit Money is encountering difficulties. Once energy resources start shrinking, Credit Money will likely fail pretty dramatically. But since such a resource constraint issue is not part of our history, they are quite reluctant to come to this conclusion. Generals always fight the last war - and in this case, the last 100 wars.

To me, that's a perfectly valid interpretation of events, supported by the evidence I see. It doesn't mean it is right, but it is supported by the evidence.

But ultimately I have to ask, why does it matter?

Credit Money will likely blow up because of its design, resource constraints, and circumstances. Its either run by evil people, or by people who are just trying to keep the machine going. Which it is doesn't matter. The outcome is the same.

Unless of course you propose running some sort of campaign to uncover then root out these extant shadowy criminal group and bring them to justice, we're both just observers in the grand play, and its likely more useful to focus not on blaming the shadowy set of characters (we have ALWAYS loved scapegoats) that may or may not exist, but rather on systemic effects and how they will end up affecting us.

By the way - I'm a big fan of the Z1. I look forward to reading it every release. Just know that its really just a survey conducted every couple of years with the interim data points being (likely) interpolations and/or guesses likely based on data the Fed gets from other places. But its the best data we've got.

@ Dave ....

Re: Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy

Terry Gross had a great interview with political statistician and modeler Nate Silver. In 2008, his models correctly predicted the outcomes of all 35 Senate races and 49 out of 50 State Presidential outcomes.

The Secret to his success?
Silver emphasized the need to strip away pre-conceived conclusions, and let the data tell the story.

www.npr.org/2012/10/10/162594751/signal-and-noise-prediction-as-art-and-science

Dave,

Write downs don't punish banks at this juncture. They punish savers, taxpayers and pensioners, who hold all that toxic dung that was dumped on them through FNMA, GNMA, Sally Mae, FHFA, FRB yada. And no, I don't want to see that happen. It amounts to not much more than a wealth transfer from the prudent to the imprudent.

This entire exhibition of greed has done enough damage' lest it land on those who can least afford it. Been out of the mortgage markets for decades. As I stated, I don't do bad debt. If I want a new house, I'll build the son-of-a-bitch, hip pocket, not cow tow to some banker derelict. I'll relate the story of what one of those subhumanoids did to me 35 years ago, hence my tendency to evict the species from my space, by whatever blunt means available! Some other day.

As for BK pro's, the construction industry is dog eat dog. NO contractor I know hasn't been burned. Happens at the turn of every Fed induced business cycle, or used to, before they tightened it up.

It was rampant, especially in the very transient, lawyer infested Silicon Valley area I used to work in many years ago, before I woke up and left that nest of freaks in the rear view mirror, to cannibalize each other out there, on their endless freeway parking lots, and got a life. With nine out of ten tech startups failing by default, BK was part of the government subsidy to "encourage" entrepreneurship. Just happened the anti gamblers among us were on the unintended consequence side of that. No lobby of sole proprietors, it seems.

So, it's either the techies ripping folks off with big brother's blessing, or the banks. Find a common theme here? Big gov.....All the same corporatocracy.

And now that all that mortgage paper is privately owned, the debt addicts want to shuck the loss on to the savers and taxpayers again, utilizing their big assed government. But, looking at the debt to gdp of Ireland, I'm not going to ship any money over to that "well run" nation anytime soon.
==============================================



Trivuim,

Just knowin' you're gonna like this link! If you haven't already seen it. Dovetails right into your eugenics deal. As a skeptical spectator, I'll give it a 4 stars out of 5. Careful with the Darwin quotes though. Even though the one about the Irish being the inferior race appeared in his work, it was encased by " .



Also, I have intimate connections with the Mises camp, with a kid who is an Austrian Economist, and many of the good people who work in the field. For a better understanding than I can offer here, due to time constraints, get with Richard Ebeling, Tom Woods and many others. I will be contacting them with your concerns and hopefully be able to clarify further. As I said, I ALWAYS go to the source. The web being such an efficient BS incubator.

Track this guy down, he is the guru. And a straight shooter. mises.org/authors/361/Richard-M-Ebeling

I will get his email for you if you can't get it from Auburn.

Denninger? Got a little more surefooted mule than that? I mean, we're on the edge of a deep canyon here.

Professorlocknload wrote:


Pretty funny. Prof, meet Triv.

Trivium,

Here are all the emails you need to clear up the misconception that the Mises Institute has any affiliation with Rockefeller. Suggest you start with the institutes founder, Lew Rockwell. The original Anti-Statist, anti-Rockefeller. I'll also contact Mark Thornton, in an effort to track down the rumor, most likely the RNC, or out of some conspiracy cave.

mises.org/Faculty

That lead presented, there is much about the Classical Liberal philosophy that is misunderstood. There is also much reason for the republicrat party/s to fear it's truths. Especially their worshiped Federal Reserve Bank.

Steve B, "Pretty funny. Prof, meet Triv."

Care to help me understand that? I'm new around these parts and don't know too many here yet.

Professorlocknload wrote:


Hi Prof, I think the joke is that I was told not to post that link to Gatto's video any more since I had already posted it too much.

davefairtex wrote:


Hi Dave, I'm not guessing how debt based money works in the aggregate, I know how it works in the aggregate. It works like this...

www.keepandshare.com/doc/4768883/debtmoneytyranny-6-1-pdf-60k?tr=77

Since that money / debt flow chart didn't seem to "click" with you, let me explain it another way.

You are the bank and I am society.

You lend me $20 at 5% interest so I can run my economy with $20 cash.

After 1 year, I owe you $21, yet, you only created $20 to give to me.

Now, those that say this debt is unpayable are technically wrong. It is payable under three circumstances:

1. I work for you and, in a timely manner, earn all the interest paid to you ($1) and return it to you, in a timely manner, so I've paid back $21.

2. I sell you my stuff, in a timely manner, earn all the interest paid to you ($1) and return it to you, in a timely manner, so I've paid back $21.

3. I rob you and pay back the $21 in a timely manner.

Dave, do you see how that is a rigged system from the standpoint of society?

You, the "bank," literally control the destiny of me, society - holding it literally hostage to bankruptcy.

If you don't understand this fraud perpetrated upon society, you will not understand what I'm saying and you will reach erroneous conclusions about my arguments and my conclusions.

I get that the societal narrative is that conspiracy is off limits as though it never occurs (read some history - it is all about conspiracy -lol-, and duly note that this societal, anti-conspiracy, anti-critical thinking narrative is a conspirator's wet dream) and only "kooks" develop conspiracy hypothesis based on data and logic.

But the societal narratives can be financed into existence and often misrepresent reality to the self interest of the very powerful. One such false narrative is that the Federal Reserve claims its mandate to be to maintain low unemployment and stable prices.

That's a bald faced lie.

That's not their mandate. If you actually read the mandate, you should be able to figure out the lie. If you can't, I will expose the lie for you.

But that's not the only lie. Stable prices are not ever inflating )exponentially growing) prices. The Fed lies about its mandate and then can't even keep its lie!

Oh, but it gets better, Dave. There is no penalty in Section 2A of the Federal Reserve Act, is there? Read it again. And again. And again. No penalty, right?

That means it isn't even a law - for a law without a penalty isn't really a law, it is propaganda.

But the non propaganda laws that apply to serfs, well, they have penalties. H8ll, Dave, there are even penalties for legally protesting the fact that the oligarch laws have no penalties - and that's not even illegal! See how that works?

But not the oligarch class... But I'm sure these lying, black letter law criminals are just too stupid to know that a law needs a penalty... well, except when those laws apply to you and I. Then they get "smart" all of a sudden.

See how that works? Except it doesn't work. It is only logical if the banker financed law makers never intended for the Federal Reserve to keep the law, therefore, they didn't impose any penalties for breaking the laws, the Federal Reserve went on to knowingly and criminally break the law (in cohort with the mega banks whose owners control the Federal Reserve System - imagine them knowing they would blow the world's largest credit bubble in advance... what money to loot from society by leveraging up into it!) and now they lie on multiple levels to cover up their complicity.

Now that makes perfect sense. it explains the fake law, it explains the criminal activity, it explains the lying and cover up.

“This Act establishes the most gigantic trust on earth....When the President signs this Act, the invisible government by the Money Power, proven to exist by the Money Trust Investigation, will be legalized....The money power overawes the legislative and executive forces of the Nation and of the States. I have seen these forces exerted during the different stages of this bill....”
~Congressman Charles A. Lindbergh, referring to the act which established the Federal Reserve. Congressional Record, Vol. 51, p. 1446. December 22, 1913.

“Gentlemen! I too have been a close observer of the doings of the Bank of the United States. I have had men watching you for a long time, and am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank [now they offload it to ignorant tax payers - even better!]. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will
ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin [Bingo!]! You are a den of vipers and thieves. I have determined to rout you out, and by the Eternal, (bringing his fist down on the table) I will rout you out!”
~From the original minutes of the Philadelphia committee of citizens sent to meet with President Jackson (February 1834), according to Andrew Jackson and the Bank of the United States (1928) by Stan Henkels

www.zerohedge.com/news/commemorating-99th-anniversary-first-ever-vampire-mollusk-or-how-william-banzai-met-his-match

WHO created the Federal Reserve System that you want to claim was some kind of societal coping mechanism decided upon by a society and not a few private financial oligarchs at Jekyll Island?



How come a debt based monetary system is required to create the inflation that you correctly state was required to work with and promote a growing population and economy?

There are lots and lots and lots of data points that need to be aggregated before before concluding what makes us feel most comfortable.

As for my purpose, yes, it is to highlight the criminal class and to bring them to justice - isn't that what one does for criminals? Or has Stockholm Syndrome become so prevalent that we are just supposed to be serially victimized by oligarchs and ask for more and, perhaps, fight anyone who would dare try to bring justice to the criminal oligarch class?

In addition, I have concluded that Thomas Jefferson was right...

"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." Thomas Jefferson (Ford, writings of Thomas Jefferson, 10:4)

If society is not aware of the criminals who perpetuate societal-wide fraud or, worse yet, they actually protect them from exposure, society is doomed to a future of tyrannical neo-feudal serfdom.

Again, that conclusion is based on many, many data points that I'd be happy to share if anyone is interested.

"All war is deception."
~Sun Tzu, Art of War

“Under the Federal Reserve Act, panics are scientifically created. The present panic is the first scientific one, worked out as we figure a mathematical equation.”
~Charles A. Lindbergh (Congressman, The Economic Pinch, 1921)

"Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men's views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of somebody, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it."
~President Woodrow Wilson

"The bank, Mr. van Buren, is trying to kill me. I will kill the bank."
~President Andrew Jackson

"And I sincerely believe, with you, that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies; and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale."
~Thomas Jefferson

“Yes, we may all congratulate ourselves that this cruel war is nearing a close. It has cost a vast amount of treasure and blood. The best blood of the flower of American youth has been freely offered upon our country's altar that the nation might live. It has been, indeed, a trying hour for the republic; but I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of the war corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudice of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety of my country than ever before, even in the midst of the war. God grant that my suspicion may prove groundless.”
~Abraham Lincoln

“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning... The one aim of these financiers is world control by the creation of inextinguishable debt.”
~Henry Ford

We have to become more sophisticated as a society so that the wolves can't keep preying upon us and our families.

If we don't, the current trajectory will not only not change, it will accelerate.

Professorlocknload wrote:


Hi Prof, that isn't what I said.

I said the Rockefeller Foundation financed Mises' trip to the United States and then funded Mises himself.

I have no doubt that Rockwell despises the Rockefellers and, I'd venture to guess, he'd never accept Rockefeller money out of disgust for the source of the money.

But that doesn't mean that the Money Power crowd can't find value in how to leverage libertarianism as the "opposition" to their current criminal operation.

I think Rockwell is more honest than people like Ron Paul, though. Rockwell calls the Federal Reserve criminals - because they are.

Paul has this fake shtick about these criminals being "academics" or the like. That's pure poppycock and I believe the chance of Paul being that ignorant are exceptionally low.

Triv,

Got it, on the vid. Some interesting thoughts in that series. Didn't know it's old soap here. I ran across it a few months ago. I watch it all, from 2016 to Michael Moore, to "Collapse", and Sesame Street, you name it. Political Atheists can do that. Good way to keep enemies close, except Oscar.

As for Lew Rockwell and Ron Paul, both are honorable men IMO. RP's voting record states that. The Ludwig von Mises Scholars I've read and encountered over the last 30 years, many who knew Mises personally, say the same of him. And, most certainly, Rockefeller and Mises had nothing in common ideologically. Promoters of Central Power and Free Market advocates just don't mix.

On said donations from Rockefeller Foundation. If I found myself trying to bring liberty and freedom of personal choice to the world, I would gladly accept funds from a Foundation, even if it's ideology differed from mine. Heck, I've even built structures for folks who's politics differed tremendously from mine, for money. Matter of fact, most of my customers differed in ideology. D's and R's mostly. Very few "Not Affiliated"


On the Fed consisting of a bunch of academics, well, isn't Bernanke?

Keep your powder dry. It just could be they are losing their grip. Words out. RP did that much for us.


Meanwhile, rock on. Life is good.

I see the Builders are starting to get overanxious as they enter overtime and as their timeline starts overlapping that of the delayed slaves. The quotes remain the same, though, from dead dudes who lived when the foundations of the pyramid were just being laid, and have zero relevance whatsoever. Now, let's invoke that free market unicorn again.

p01 wrote:


History has no relevance?

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"
~George Santayana

Prof LnL, I don't doubt that Mises was his own man and didn't purposefully shill for Money Power interests, but I do believe they found enough in his theories that they funded him as their "opposition," a roll in which his theories play a roll today.

If you were mega corporations, wouldn't you want a "free market" after you've already rigged the system and are the biggest kid on the block by far?

If you had manipulated the gold standard to rob the average person for hundreds of years, wouldn't you want a legion of people promoting the very mechanism that you've used to enslave so many before?

Now, I think that Mises' theories apply in an ideal world, just not so much in a world where a misguided self interest plays such a key roll - and gets worse up the power pyramid.

As an example, I don't think the average al Qaeda fighter in Libya or Syria knows that they are tools of the Money Power... yet they are.

1. West (Money Power hijacked) targets Russia -> al Qaeda
2. West (Money Power hijacked) targets Serbia -> al Qaeda
3. Money Power targets American civil liberties and initiates the full on police state excuse -> al Qaeda
4. West (Money Power hijacked) targets non threatening Libya -> al Qaeda
5. West (Money Power hijacked) target Syria -> al Qaeda

You are dead on - political frameworks are cognitive ball and chains. Removing the ball and chains open up the world for discovery.

TheTrivium4TW wrote:


Yes, it does. Slavery and serfdom is what all recorded (less than 1% of Man's existence on the planet) history was all about, and it's guaranteed to repeat again (the other possible outcome is, of course, nuclear winter). However, you are obsessed with effects and somehow have a very distorted view of the "Good Ole Past", when the Moral-estests of bearded (and sometimes not so bearded) Men walked the Earth (it's a cargo cultist type of thing that many of us are somehow drawn into: some worship Atlantis, others Greece, Rome, the 50's, the 60's, the Founding Father's Era, or other romanticized versions of the Great Past). Everybody agrees there's a criminal clique up there. The problem is not the clique, it's the amount of power they have, and that is built into civilization by definition. But if you acknowledged the cause, there won't be much to ramble about, would it? The cause it the Ultimate Conversation Stopper. Ever. And it's irreversible.

@Triv,

"You are dead on - political frameworks are cognitive ball and chains. Removing the ball and chains open up the world for discovery. "

But removing the ball and chains involves risk. Not for the weak spirited.

That stated, even within Auschwitz there were markets.

History? The one that "never repeats, but sometimes rhymes?" M.Twain

If it doesn't fit the agenda, go back and change it. It's done every day. I prefer the now, with just enough respect for the "then," to avoid undue pain.

All wagers are on human action and reaction, not the way some central planner demands that it be.

p01,

When it all goes boom, we can go to the government store and take a number. Or stay active in the "unicorn" free market. These 'Maters I get from the back woods folks are soooo much nicer than the ones with the green seeds from the regulated union grocery store monopoly. Of course, they might cost me a jar of tuna. No slot for that in the register at safeway.



Dead guys?

Maybe those old dead dudes should have just stuck with the Church of England, and basked in absolute security?

Security? A human concept, promoted by overlords. That's all. Waiting for it is waiting for Godot.

Get free...

www.freedomainradio.com/About.aspx

Hope Stefan doesn't turn out to be a rocky feller in drag

Trivium -

I already know how the debt/money system works, I'm surprised you didn't pick that up from the few times I've mentioned it before. It makes me wonder if you actually read what I write. Good explanation though.

Sure its clear bankers benefit from the current system, and its also clear they are a powerful group these days. The Fed certainly works for the banks. And people in debt have big problems - in aggregate. But that combination of facts doesn't necessarily add up to some eternal dark, ultrapowerful group of conspirators bent on owning everything and the total domination of mankind that you talk about.

The common thread in all of it is, I see you making a leap beyond the evidence which to me isn't justified. And you have a level of certainty about it that (again to me) isn't justified either.

Of course, I can't prove this conspiracy doesn't exist - that would be proving a negative.

However I'll always be interested to read any new bits of evidence you unearth. I can always find new information interesting even if I don't share the opinions of the presenter.

p01 wrote:


p01, just because you dreamed up some false reality about my views doesn't make it true. I don't believe in some kind of great past... you made that up out of whole cloth.

BTW, that's not what I have ever said I believe in simply because it isn't what I believe.

Humans are complex creatures. Sometimes they do great good and sometimes they do great evil. Andrew Jackson was dead on wrt the criminal international banking cartel, but he was wicked when it came to dealing with Native Americans.

I believe I know the root cause with crystal clear clarity - human selfishness.

But most people put that on the evil doers. You know, the grouop Dave took me to task for saying even existed and the ones you say almost everyone knows exists. Yeah, that group. And they deserve the wrath.

But they aren't alone. I believe the Einstein correctly nailed the problem...

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it."
~Albert Einstein

There are two main reasons why people don't do anything about the grand evil that is wicked as the day is long, even if camouflaged in an illusion of respectability.

1. Ignorance - and I aim to reduce that.
2. Selfishness.

I would suggest that effort spent identifying and fighting humanity's enemy and exposing this groups' methodology is time better spent than making up fables about my belief system.

Nobody is going to agree on all the details, nor should they. That would mean they aren't thinking for themselves.

But to assume a group of people who ride the government like it was a pet pony and who...

1. Enforce Debt Money Tyranny across the entire Western world (at least I don't know any nation that doesn't have it)

2. Bomb the usury free Muslim nations as they set up Central Banks to enforce Debt Money Tyranny over the recently vanquished.

...all under the complete cover of the politicians, the major media, the education system, the religious system, etc...

And no, they aren't dumb. They aren't ignorant. Those conditions can be fixed with knowledge. Go ahead, prove me wrong - contact your favorite politicians, explain debt based money to them and then post a link to their press conference exposing the fraud.

Ain't.

Gonna.

Happen.

But you may get put on a special list... so you won't do it, right? You aren't scared of such impotent people, are you?

I don't see impotence pulling off the above. That's not a reasonable conclusion, IMHO.

BTW, the plan throughout history is "boom / bust."

Bust is all part of their plan - that's when they roll up society's assets up under their TBTF mega front corporations.

Ask the Greeks how that is going. The hard assets in Greece aren't declining, rather, the Greeks are just losing them. Losing them to the folks most in control of the Debt Money Tyranny system. Exactly as per this stage of the plan.

If you think an economic collapse means this group isn't powerful then, IMHO, I suggest you re-analyze their battle plan to destroy your country, steal your liberty and freedom and dominate you in the impoverishment they orchestrated for you.

But them, they'll be living larger than ever.

And some will think it was just the "luck of the draw."

Others will know better.

www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-10-12/great-chess-game

Here is the main point of the article.



"Humans are selfish creatures, we all want the best for ourselves, our family, our town, our tribe, our country – that is just part of human evolution that has enabled us to succeed. However that competitive streak has outlived its purpose and is in fact destroying us. The ultimate in selfishness is really the desire to survive – don’t we all want to survive (and hopefully prosper)? If we are going to fulfill that ultimately selfish wish then it’s actually necessary for us to evolve beyond competing and abandon clearly failed and destructive actions."



Read it again and weep.



The combined Individual "wants of a better life" create the growth of societies.

None of us living can change our wants.

Hopefully the surviving generations will be able to find a compromise that will allow them to survive.

Professorlocknload wrote:


If we aren't learning new things every day, every week, every month, we aren't paying attention.

I heard an excellent analogy for the Federal Reserve System that most people can identify with (those with ears to hear - and many frankly don't).

The Federal Reserve System is like a government (both parties, BTW, and they aren't telling anyone!) mandated credit card for the nation, say American Express. Our taxes are like the minimum payment on that credit card. The only way anyone can get paid is to earn someone else's cash advance away from them.

WHO finances the government? Well, that would be the OWNERS / CONTROLLERS of the credit card. Since the politicians owe their livelihood to the credit card OWNERS / CONTROLLERS, the politicians know not to bite the hand that feeds them... you know, like governing for the benefit of the people instead of the OWNERS / CONTROLLERS of the credit card.

It isn't conspiracy theory, people, it is the basic cost / benefit economics of a fraudulent Debt Money Tyranny system engineered to bankrupt society and convey assets to the front corporations controlled by the Money Power - the credit card OWNERS and CONTROLLERS in the previous example.

The problem with pretending these people aren't very powerful is that this same criminal class will offer the solution to the collapse they have engineered.

And if you don't like the collapse, you **really** won't like their solution once it is fully implemented. Of course, the lies will usher it in... being that we are gullible and fall for the lies so darn easily. But the lies are only to cover for the wickedness that will follow...

Just like the "new economy" and "ownership society" nonsense preceded the guaranteed bankruptcy of most Americans.

jal wrote:


Selfishness based on a false value system is absolutely, IMHO, the #1 problem facing humanity.

But that isn't a reason to give up, it is a reason to strive for better and to identify the shackles used to enslave society and identify the shacklers as the criminals they are.

To not do so is an expression of selfishness based on a false value system, too.

All the poor people who go vote for a President without a clue that voter fraud occurred before they even cast their vote... Money Power puppet on the left, Money Power puppet on the right.

Tails the Money Power wins, heads the Money Power wins.

The Debt Money Trojan Horse shall remain in place either way, its engineered destruction at least keeps Ilargi busy writing blog posts.

Trivium-

So I did a bit of research on what the code words "Money Power" mean and I'd like you to clarify something: do you believe as Henry Makow does, that The Money Power is basically Jewish in origin? Or does Money Power mean something different to you?

You've been coy about talking about this ever since I started reading your posts, and now I have a sense as to why that might be. Here's your chance to clarify things so I don't get an incorrect impression of your viewpoint.

davefairtex wrote:


Money Power is pretty clear - it is the people who created our fraudulent "national credit card currency" money system and the people who control it (by extension, it could also include the direct minions of the system that understand how it operates and support it by not outing it.). That's how I define it and that's how I use it. That's it - no secret decoder ring here. I'm for transparency, not this secrecy stuff. I'm fighting those who work in the dark to rip off the common person.

I don't use it as a "code word." If others do, that's on them. Divide and conquer is a well known methodology to control and conquer populations. I know nothing about this Makow person, but I do know one method the Money Power uses to try to silence opposition or shut down debate, data sharing and logical analysis.

Now, the Money Power narrative is that anyone who talks about the Money Power is anti-Semitic. That's one method of ad hominem attack on anyone who, like me, might try to out their criminal methodologies.

You'd expect the media they finance and control to show the masses anti-Fed people who also spout anti-Semitic remarks, thereby linking the two in the minds of surface thinking people. They did this with the LA teacher in the Occupy Wall Street movement they plastered on the "news."

That's absolutely not where I'm coming from and some deeper thinking will reveal the simple hoax of that irrational train of thought.

1. Did the average Jewish person get to keep their home when the mega banks committed (continue to commit) perjury and file false paperwork to literally steal the serf homes?

2. Does the average Jewish person in Jefferson County get a smaller sewer bill than the other folks after JP Morgan bribed the county officials (who were convicted and went to jail) and upped their sewer renovation cost by $1 billion or do they pay up out of their blood, sweat and toil like everyone else? Did JP Morgan return the money they stole to the Jewish residents or did they simply keep all the bribery loot?

3. Did Bernie Madoff avoid ripping off any common Jewish folks (while JP Morgan likely rant the $50 billion back office operation - that's the claim in a lawsuit, anyway. There's no way Bernie did without a mega financial institution's help)?

4. Did any common Jewish people get the memo that GMO hasn't been tested in rats longer than 90 days and the cancer start in the next month and are much larger and between 250-350% more frequent?

5. Did the average Jewish people get the memo that the EPA scientists oppose water fluoridation and that Harvard released a study showing a correlation between fluoride ingestion and brain damage in children?

6. If the common Jewish person gets it so good in this system, why to 500,000 of them gather and protest their Money Power controlled government?

7, Did the Jewish people on 9/12/01 get a special memo to avoid breathing in the toxic fumes after the government said publicly the toxic brew air was just fine?

No, I'm not anti-Semitic. Far from it. I'm pro-humanity, inclusive of all people that aren't criminals waging asymmetrical war on everyone else. You can call them the Predator Class. I am anti-criminal oligarchs who criminally rig the systems to impoverish the common person.

I spend a lot of time educating as many people as possible about these financial crimes so they can understand the context in which they live and do their best to prepare for their family's future.

BTW, thanks for asking and not just leaping to an erroneous conclusion and then sliming me with it.

Martin Luther King was right. Content of character is all that matters. It is pure insanity to gauge a person on anything but.

I didn't oppose Obama because he was black and I don't oppose Romney because he's white. I oppose them because they are front men for a wicked, criminal system engineered to impoverish the common person, be they male, female, white, black, Asian, Jewish, Christian, short, tall, light, heavy or whatever.

I've identified the criminal system and I'm exposing it.

By definition, the people who run it will have some characteristics. Short, tall, pink, light brown, dark brown, atheist, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, fat, skinny, whatever. Those traits are meaningless in this context, contrary to the divide and conquer techniques that have, apparently, poisoned the well of the common person's ability to logically evaluate this divide and conquer methodology.

Their wicked, evil character and their criminal Debt Money Tyranny system are the issue.

"The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is **the people** (all of us!) versus the banks (controlled by the Money Power or, if you prefer, a term I used a while back that drew plenty of blank stares... Big Finance Capital)."
~John Dalberg Lord Acton

Trivium -

Thanks for clarifying whether or not you are anti-semitic. It seems clear that you are not. I'm glad that your remedy for The Money Power isn't sending everyone of Jewish descent away to camps for them to be killed.

I'm all for replacing the system of debt based money and debt slavery with something better. I just have no interest in interacting with anyone suggesting any sort of sweeping group-oriented Final Solution style "remedy."

davefairtex wrote:


Hi Dave, you aren't more glad than I! I've observed that people seem to have a tribal instinct that the social engineers are able manipulate to their own advantage. Whether it is color of skin, nationality, religion, sexual orientation, residency status, whatever. That's the blue print to divide and then conquer. If we don't fall for the divide, we will be more difficult to conquer. Alas, so many people fall for the divide that precedes the conquering.

This is good vs evil, positive vs negative, justice vs criminality - those are all content of character issues.

The only way to combat a system that preys upon our ignorance is to spend the time and effort to undo the ignorance.

For those who find wisdom in the Old Testament, "My people perish for lack of knowledge."

We need to elevate the knowledge. Either the common person wakes up and resists this tyranny or we are doomed.

Those who have prepared will have to fight off the millions who haven't and, even if they can do that, they will then have to fight off the Central State as they go around slamming boots on people's necks.

None of us are safe in this wicked system - and I get that is a very uncomfortable realization. However, people have faced up to this reality in the past.

"Mr. President, it is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth, and listen to the song of that siren till she transforms us into beasts. Is this the part of wise men, engaged in a great and arduous struggle for liberty? Are we disposed to be of the number of those who, having eyes, see not, and, having ears, hear not, the things which so nearly concern their temporal salvation? For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst, and to provide for it"
~Patrick Henry

Do note that Bush's (Republican House and Senate) FEMA ran around the United States teaching local law enforcement and fire fighters that George Washington and the Founding Fathers were the first American terrorists.

Shocking FEMA Training Video- "Founding Fathers were TERRORISTS"



Dave, if you haven't seen Renaissance 2.0, I highly recommend the whole thing:

www.csper.org/renaissance-20.html

Renaissance 2.0 slices through the false narrative and shows how the world actually functions. Once this concept is understood, the myriad of perceived irrational contradictions (most of the time falsely reconciled by "they are stupid") all fall into place.

If you haven't seen The Corporation, I highly recommend it as well:



The reason the Corporation is so important is that it reveals WHO we are dealing with here. The documentary compares the corporate legal structure to the clinical definition of a psychopath.

My argument is that the people with enough power to create the corporate psychopath model DID SO IN THEIR OWN IMAGE.

When you understand the profit making psychopath and anti-human, anti-decency nature of a corporation, you now understand the nature of Big Finance Capital that created our monetary system and the corporate structure.

I get this isn't a pleasant realization and nobody want to deal with a predatory Big Finance Capital class that is literally out to rob, impoverish and hurt us, but I stand with Patrick Henry's idea expressed as, "For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst, and to provide for it."

Unlike Patrick Henry, though, I'm not calling for a physical revolution, rather, I'm calling for an intellectual revolution of an educated and active populace that understands the real danger it faces and not the false dangers promoted by the powers that represent the real danger.

I'm not eloquent, I'm not subtle, I'm not a word smith and I don't possess magnetic charisma that Big Finance Capital likes to use to manipulate and control the population...

“In the technotronic society the trend would seem to be towards the aggregation of the individual support of millions of uncoordinated citizens, easily within the reach of magnetic and attractive personalities exploiting the latest communications techniques to manipulate emotions and control reason.”
― Zbigniew Brzezinski, Between Two Ages: America's Role in the Technetronic Era

I do the best I can with the knowledge and skills I have because that is all I can do. So I do it and hope more eloquent and persuasive people will "get it" and carry the message much further than I ever could.

Make no mistake - this is a clear and present danger to everything we hold dear about our country, our state, our county, our city and our community.

Just ask the Greeks.

Just ask the Spanish.

There is no solution, unless one's solution is to bankrupt them and transfer control of the nation state over the private corporate interests... the very same interests engineered the systematic asset stripping of society and the coming Greatest Depression.

From 1912:

2.bp.blogspot.com/--W_6SbrtNR0/TprOVVSfanI/AAAAAAAAAcY/2f4AjNMx6Fw/s1600/money+trust.jpg

“Under the Federal Reserve Act, panics are scientifically created. The present panic is the first scientific one, worked out as we figure a mathematical equation.”
~Congressman Charles A. Lindbergh, The Economic Pinch, 1921.

davefairtex wrote:


Dave, something to consider. I've never covered any topic that would lead anyone to believe that I'm anti-semitic.

However, the criminals that run this system create the false narrative that anyone highlighting the fraudulent monetary system must be anti-semitic in order to shut down debate about their fraudulent monetary scheme.

This isn't an accident - it is by design.

We can't underestimate the Machiavellian nature of the ruling financial oligarchs.

But do appreciate you asking me to clarify my position instead of simply shutting down intellectually and accusing me of something I find abhorrent and, frankly, dumber than door nails (racism).

Im mystified about the money power myself, and wonder which organisational structures and institutions it may encompass, whether this group has traditionally included industrial oligarchs as well as european royalty.

Its unclear to me to what extent esoteric societies are integrated into such money power, whether money power effectively leverages the malice of financiers, arms-traders and industrial complexes into an occult framework with eugenicist objectives, or merely alligns monetary motivations of banking cartels between political boundaries by controlling legislature in many countries at once.

Besides the evident ideological agenda for the centralised control of money and credit as embodied by central banking, when discerning a criminal conspiracy perpetrated by this money power, exactly what types of crime are committed according to criminal law? Are these financial crimes like extortion or embezzlement of public funds?
For the constitutional component delineating the power of the purse, it has been suggested that if congress was unauthorised to engage a third party for the function of issuing coin, then the federal reserve act may be construed as a political crime of seditious conspiracy between congress and the colluding parties of the feds charter.

Im also intrigued by this idea that the libertarian platform is controlled opposition, although the evidence that von Mises was intellectually compromised by Rockefellers money is not strong.
But if it is controlled, then is the entire libertarian framework of sound money deliberately misconceptualised to make it impossible to correctly diagnose the real problems in the monetary system, forcing prescribed alternative systems into a controlled gold-based paradigm unable to diminish the money power? Or is the framework of sound money essentially correct and capable of lessening the money powers influence, but its proponents unable to act politically because discourse is directed by embedded agents of the money trust?

It seems that there is a correlation between banking crises and resurgence of anti-semitism, whereas banks are correctly identified as abusive entities, they are often mistakenly assumed to be jewish-controlled.
Hannah Arendts book 'The Origins of Totalitarianism' points out that the priviledged caste of european court jews in the 19th century were traditionally involved in financing the emerging nation-states by conduits of banking establishments, and so jewish people as a group became culturally misassociated with banking and credit systems. The nazi-syndicate capitalised on this prejudiced association of enemy money power with judaism for their demonisation campaign.

However, certain functions pertaining to occult hierarchies do incorporate elements of jewish mysticism which utilise esoteric methods of social control. Freemasonry is saturated with esoteric knowledge derived from jewish mysticism, and if such secret societies are commonly associated with conspiracies concerning money and banking, it would be easy to mistake the element of jewish mysticism therein as a controlling force.
From a criminological perspective, it seems less objectionable to assert that the money power is a globalised occult phenomenon run by dominant sociopaths rather than associated with any particular ethno-religous group.

The contemporary mechanisms of monetary control have been purposefully compartmentalised within subsets of esoteric knowledge, and the controlling parties could easily leverage power through the social infrastructure of occult hierarchies for nefarious purposes.
The monetary system is so deliberately obfuscated and esoteric that Triv has to explain its inner workings to the uninitiated, while it should be fully accessible public knowledge.

Also, when it is suggested that jews control the media, it must be noted that many CEO's of media conglomerates are indeed jewish, but these people likely appropriate such positions because they associate with a pervasive money trust alligned by the political platform of zionism, which would select for political skillsets of dominant sociopathy rather than religious affilliation.
Discourse on political zionism and the policies of Israel does prove difficult by preprogrammed association with anti-semitism, yet the extremist elements of zionism have nothing to do with the jewish people.

And we know the blasphemy of them Rothschilds which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Santa.

Hi Gravity,

You are outside the false narrative matrix and are engaging reality - and that's a good thing. Those that have an American Express card intuitively know that some group controls it and some group profits from it - even if they have no idea WHO it is.

The national bipartisan government enforced credit card with no grace period and no perks is no different. Some group controls it and some group profits from it (and the groups can overlap).

People define conspiracy differently - mostly they define it so that it doesn't exist and this makes them feel "safer" somehow.

If someone has covertly rigged a system, actively works to cover it up and the end result of this rigging is to hurt society badly, well, that's a conspiracy to do harm in my book - and I don't care if it is "on the books" legal or not.

Using that definition of conspiracy, this is the grandest conspiracy of them all because, with the free market veneer over of this monetary Trojan Horse, the HIGHEST BIDDER always wins.

What does this cabal that runs and profits from the monetary Trojan Horse control?

What industries and institutions are beholden to the HIGHEST BIDDER that would interest the HIGHEST BIDDER?

Those are the industries and institutions beholden to the HIGHEST BIDDER.

Of course, government would be #1 on that list, because that means they'd control the military to ensure it wasn't used to asset strip the oligarchs. They'd also want the military complex as well - and for the same reason.

I don't have personal knowledge of what this criminal cabal controls, but I have a good idea - anything SUPER BIG is almost assuredly controlled by them. You can own shares in Monsanto, but you can't control it and you can't control its capture of the FDA and the government, either. The Money Power can, though. And they do - they'd be morons not to.

We have to start viewing the world in terms of individuality... the social engineers create groups and then divide the groups as they use the media and our tribal instinct to set us at each other's throats. No, we need to identify the real controllers of society that hijacked the education system in an effort to stunt our intellectual growth, frustrate a big portion of us and break out spirits.

When we stop and think about it... it is absurd to talk in terms of "the Jews control..." this or that. "The Jews" aren't monolithic. My Jewish neighbor doesn't know or influence Osama bin Bernanke (he's just a front talking head to keep your eyes off the Owners of the mega banks that tell Osama bin Bernanke what he's going to do.

Jewish common folk aren't immune from mega banks committing unlimited perjury as they file false paperwork to steal citizen homes.

The vast majority of Jews are victims of this wickedness perpetrated by wicked people - their nationality, their claimed religion... whatever, doesn't matter. Content of character does.

500,000 Jews took to the streets and protested their criminals Big Finance Capital oligarch controlled government - they are being ground down just like the rest of us.



As for the "illuminati signs" and the alleged Satanism of this particular, I think that is a distraction that ultimately keeps us off the path of exposing the 100% certain math behind their criminal societal asset stripping and national bankrupting crime spree.

Think about it this way... if you are in debt now, as are most people, that means all the productive labor of your ancestors over thousands of years has been effectively siphoned off by a group of intellectual criminals.

The Bible says that the love of money is a root of all evil.

So, if you were the most Machiavellian, wicked evil on planet Earth, what would you do?

Control.

The.

Money.

You can't solve a problem until the root cause has been removed from the system. That's problem solving 101. Analyzing the problem is fine, but it won't be fixed until the root cause is identified and eliminated.

Not by violence, but by education and intellect.

Pay cash to buy local - 100% of the money stays in the community.

Boycott the BIGS - Wal-Mart, McDonalds, Costco, etc...

Don't bank with the BIGS, go the credit union route.

Stop voting for bankster candidate A or B. Make a bankster financed candidate a political suicide candidate.

Educate others. Be open to information yourself. I learn new stuff all the time - and I love it. There is so much I don't know... Don't be offended by the sharing of ideas. Stop and consider them. Ask questions. Apply logic and context.

The solutions aren't difficult, but do we care to inconvenience ourselves to make the world a better place?

Big Finance Capital is the mega-corporate Borg and debt based money fraud, and all the spin-offs like government capture, quadrillion+ in derivatives, corporate asset stripping wars, mega-bank drug money laundering, etc... are their products.

PS - It is way more important to understand the system than the personalities behind it. We'll never know exactly WHO is behind this and how much everyone knows, but we can, CONCLUSIVELY, know that the system they created is fraud and we can find ways to alert people "with eyes to see and ears to hear."

Will the forces of deflation apply to gold.
The rich people are pushing Romney to have gold used in some way to back money.(I am not following this story so I don't know the details).

The original question ...



Transparency!!!

1. The looting has already been done and its over.

2. Realizing that there are too many other claims on the same asset that you think that you have all sewed up in your pocket.

Sloppy Seconds, anyone?

From today's Wall Street Jounral:

Millions of families lost their homes to foreclosure after the housing crash hit six years ago. Now, some of those families are back in the housing market. Call them the "boomerang" buyers........

online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444657804578052892032374094.html?mod=WSJ_hps_LEFTTopStories

Don't get me wrong: I'm all for licking a light socket now and then (after all, we do need a bit of zizzle zazzle to spice things up every once in a while).

But what do you do with folks like this? Tongue amputation?
-------------

Typical boomerang buyers are people like April Del Rosario, who purchased her first home in 2006 when she was 24 years old. Newly married and unsure of what terms such as adjustable-rate mortgage meant, Ms. Del Rosario and her husband paid $315,000 for a two-bedroom condominium in San Diego's Mission Valley area, a location they picked because it was central to their jobs. The $2,600 monthly mortgage payment was already a struggle, but when the mortgage rate was adjusted higher and Ms. Del Rosario became pregnant, the couple was overwhelmed. They lost the home to foreclosure in 2009.

"We were really young and stupid," she says. "All of a sudden, our already really expensive mortgage was going to go up. I was pregnant and everything was just bad timing on our part."

Three years later, the couple is back in the market. The Del Rosarios were recently approved for a loan for a $280,000 home in Chula Vista, south of San Diego, which, when it is completed in January, will have three bedrooms and a two-car garage. Instead of proximity to work, they picked the location based on its school district and their desire to live there a long time. And while they now must pay $300 a month in mortgage insurance, the family's income has grown, and their total mortgage payment is still a little lower than before, around $2,400. "We're trying to be really conservative. We just want to have a nice place for our son," she says.
see link above....
----------------------

I'm sure sweet little Junior (Apple of Mommy's eye) will appreciate that 2-car garage.

Trivium -

So why the anti-semitic question?

It has been a theme for quite some time that there is an international conspiracy of bankers, run by "the jews", that dominate affairs of the world. This thinking culminated in the tragic actions in Nazi Germany. That's why, since you espouse similar-sounding ideas and you use specific terminology that is also used by those same people, I asked the question.

Its great that you are focused on actions; to me that avoids the trap that advocates scapegoating a separate small group of people (who are "not-us") that if they were only sent off to camps the world would be all better.

I think that focusing instead on the system of slavery and proposing changes is much more productive. One cannot expect success in an essentially moral enterprise if at the start one's thinking is grossly immoral at the core.

I watched your corporation video and I felt it did have some pretty valid points - stuff I've been thinking in the back of my mind but had not solidified. I'm still sorting through the solutions in my mind. In some sense, one core problem with corporations is that not all stakeholders are represented in corporate governance. Nation, workers, and capital all need to have a voice in the entity that is an enterprise, since it is an organism that affects all three.

At the same time, the best work is done with teams, and private enterprise has an essential enthusiasm and creativity that if properly focused can really drive the search for solutions in a way that government cannot replicate, at least not long term. That's because capitalism, if honestly implemented, ends up killing off poorly performing solutions on its own, which government (unfortunately) cannot seem to do.

It's a pity we don't have actual capitalism - right now we have crony capitalism, which ends up preserving those poorly performing solutions at taxpayer expense, which is of course the worst of both worlds.

Banking has nothing whatsoever to do with judaism, the jewish people or the jewish faith.

That leaves us free to criticise banking as a business as much as necessary. We should be able to criticise the most obviously destructive and anti-social functions of modern banking without it leading to unwarranted accusations of anti-semitism.

Modern banking is one of the most concentrated forms of institutional evil and social debasement to have ever existed in the world, and reasonably, banking and the monetary system must be completely reformed and reconstituted to avoid infinite slavery of everyone who uses money.

We should have to define the exact criminal conspiracy perpetrated by the central banking cartels, in collusion with government, as usury, replicative embezzlement, extortion and racketeering, extending to seditious conspiracy and monetary genocide.

Therefore, as the worst excess of banking is a clearly definable criminal enterprise, any righteous solution [within the rule of law] to the monetary malice should include an expedient criminal prosecution of the offending parties, in conjunction with a democratic process of value readjustment, which must mediate wholesale reform of the entire monetary/banking system.

The problem remains that the money power has already extended its influence into all realms of human endeavor by the interface of commerce and the prevalent mechanism of dominant sociopathy, compromising every institution in modern society, corrupting civil discourse and the political process, systematically eliminating any possibility of a democratic reform.

The money power is centered around the banking cartels, and strongly influences the function of multinational corporations, bureaucracies, political parties, scientific and educational establishments, various industrial complexes, media, journalism, non-governmentals and religious organisations. Money malice seems to exert lesser influence over artistic activity.

The established mechanisms of dominant/clustered sociopathy indicate that societal institutions become more conductive to evil than to good at larger scales, especially if coerced by aggregation of insidious money power. This corruption of scale would perhaps affect multinational corporations more strongly than governments and religious institutions, since the corporate entity in its current configuration is fully antithetical to moral memory.

The money power also seems to dominate the esoteric construct of the mystery schools and occult hierarchies, besides wielding significant influence over the political, scientific and commercial realms.

Based on a comprehensive body of evidence, the occult nature of the alchemical processes of banking and monetization, and evident esoteric symbolism such as the eye of horus displayed on the dollar, it must be concluded that the money power extends into the institutional manifestations of the mystery schools, and has largely corrupted everything therein that can be corrupted.

Another interpretation would be that it is the evil side of the mysteries which originates the malice of the money power, and especially the luciferian sects, being hell-bent on world domination, would multiply the malice of money to gain further advantage.
One could be mistaken to think that hardcore luciferianism is not a problem. Insofar as that, as rumored, ritualistic human sacrifice is the central tenet of its doctrine, and its defining quality is to promote public suffering for private profit, organised luciferianism is so much a threat to all democratic and moral existence, and so far outside the reach of the rule of law, that some people argue that any vassals of lucifer ought to be killed on detection, being too dangerous to be left at large.

I would personally disagree with such sentiments and do expect that more constructive methods of justice and proper prosecution of crimes are still within the means of democratic societies, which may allow for less radical reform.
It may seem misplaced to mention such matters in regards to the money power, but globalised luciferianism, as an organised criminal entity, is embedded in the money power in a spiritual sense, if one considers money to be the leveraged collateral of all evil, and providing that financial elites are predominantly disposed to occultism of this variety.
Not all luciferians are organised evil, and the behavioral substructure of clustered sociopathy is a more universal organising principle for corruption within institutions than any particular religious pattern.

Banking and the money power as criminal enterprises should not be associated with any particular religious group, but if they were, it would likely be associated with some sinister occultism.
Its true that the money power is inherently an occult phenomenon, although it may not directly involve secret societies, its primary tool of manipulation is the alchemical transmutation of debt to money by mental control of the masses, yielding a form of economotive sorcery.

Of course, its quite absurd to think that the money power involves anything else besides banking cartels influencing legislature, it doesnt require occultism as such, nor would any luciferian cults need a money power to gain influence, but still, if luciferians were a significant group, some of their methods of infiltration might use compatible agendas.

Many of the older money elites are deeply occultist, though, such as the rothschild banking dynasty, but those are not necessarily alligned with luciferianism, and merely constitute a criminal oligarchy of the regular variety.
Its interesting to see that the pattern of political persection which would result in demonising either banking sociopaths or luciferian occultists is similar to the observed pattern of persecution of the jewish people.
Much of the nazi-propaganda simply involved classifying jews as a sociopathic or psychopathic group, which would be easier if one were to mistakenly believe jewish peope were somehow associated with banking or the mythical money power, precisely because it does sometimes seem reasonable to associate banking with anti-social functions.

Anyway, targeting any particular group of people outside of relevant professional settings is useless and counterproductive for any reform agenda. Bankers and colluding politicians should be held to account for organised crime, and the monetary system must be redesigned to eliminate any possible leverage to such a money power.

The following is gaining attention on a lot of blogs.


removingtheshackles.blogspot.ca/2012/10/43-trillion-money-laundering-lawsuit.html#comment-form
$43 Trillion Money Laundering Lawsuit

federal lawsuit now impending in the United States District Court in Brooklyn, New York (Case No. 12-cv-04269-JBW-RML)