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TOPIC: How To Spot A Zombie
How To Spot A Zombie 3 months, 3 weeks ago #6549
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![]() That thing in Davos is on again, the World Economic Forum, sort of like the Academy Awards without awards but with the same peacock factor. And snow. Full of business leaders and government leaders and media leaders, the vast majority of whom are the same folks who attended before this crisis broke you but not them into pieces, and easily enough to make you realize with a shudder what an unmitigated disaster it is that these are the people who are supposed to take the world back to financial health. Simply because they are the people who profit most from the state of the world as it is, or they wouldn't be there. And they are the chosen ones destined to save you? They are only out to save themselves. One of the people always present, well, actually, he's a bit of a new addition to the flock who rose to claim and fame because of the crisis, is Nouriel Roubini. And at first sight, you may think: why is he there? He's Dr Doom after all, he has what may look like negative messages for the in-crowd, so why welcome and tolerate him? And then you understand what Roubini's role is. He's as vain as the others, and he gets paid really well to play his role in the grand scheme. That is to say, Nouriel is the court jester. Every ruler needs someone to make fun of him/her. That creates the impression that (s)he can laugh at him/herself, an indispensable quality if one wishes to impress one's guests. A sign of strength indeed. The media have continued quoting Roubini for 5 years now, even though he's said a lot of quirky things since he became their darling. He's quoted because he predicted the crisis, yeah, but so did quite a few other people, including ourselves here at The Automatic Earth. So that's not the whole story. Why then do we find Roubini again in Davos? Because he says things that may sound doomerish and critical, but never in a way that would make the rich and powerful he hob-nobs his way into increasing wealth with uneasy. Sure, they don't like what he says, but they also don’t believe most of what he says. We've all lost track of the number of times through the years that Roubini has - literally - said there's a perfect storm coming just around the corner. So much so that "perfect storm" no longer means anything if coming from him - if it ever did in the context -. That said, there was something he said last week that does deserve some attention, albeit more or less despite himself. The upside is, Roubini had a good idea. The downside is he got it wrong. Money printing 'amounts to theft from our children' Speaking at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Davide Serra, founder of leading hedge fund Algebris, and Nouriel Roubini, the head of Roubini Economics known as Dr Doom for predicting the financial crisis, set out the case against those who think quantitative easing (QE) and low rates are benign policy tools. "When governments borrow, they are taking money from our children. QE is the same – we are lowering returns for future generations. QE creates an inter-generational dilemma," Mr Serra said. Mr Roubini warned that central bankers need to think about turning off the cheap money tap or risk creating another, possibly even worse, bubble. He argued that policymakers have encouraged markets and individuals to take on crippling levels of debt by leaving asset bubbles unchecked in a boom and coming to borrowers’ rescue in a crisis. [..] He said loose monetary policy is creating a system biased to creating bubbles, "that's why we've been moving to more unconventional territories" in policy responses - from low rates to QE to credit easing. "Central bankers have affected the behaviour of the private sector. They have to think about that," he said. "As you do a slow exit out of QE you may create another bubble and make another crisis. "At some point, the consequence of postponing deleveraging is that you end up with zombie banks, zombie companies, zombie households, and zombie governments." Roubini has identified the fact that there was a crisis, as it was building up, but he's never understood what brought it about (well, either that or he's not telling). The crisis creates zombie everything, he's got that right, but what he doesn't get is that this happens because bailouts and QEs spread around zombie money. "... the consequence of postponing deleveraging is that you end up with zombie banks, zombie companies, zombie households, and zombie governments." Roubini doesn't identify why that is. Which is that you can only postpone deleveraging with zombie money. In a sense, he himself is a zombie. Zombie money is what you're left with if you don't restructure debts and financial institutions. If you don't do that, any public money you provide to banks through QE or other stimulus measures is not real in the sense that it can be freely spent or lent out, because at the other end of the ledger it's balanced out (and more) by the unrecognized losses that remain in the books. As long as there's no restructuring, it may plug holes below ground, but because of the size of the holes, above ground it builds only zombies. That is the essence of the financial crisis, and none of it has been resolved. The only thing that keeps the zombie money from falling through the floor and into the holes is faith, hope, charity and make-believe. Yes, it keeps things going in a more or less acceptable-looking manner if you don't look too close, and yes, it makes the "right people" money, but in the end its most important effect will be procrastination, and that will come at a huge cost. We should be restructuring, but we don't. Those who would stand to lose most in a thorough restructuring of financial institutions are the same "right people" who make money by refusing to restructure. There is no mystery here. A government or central bank, or both, can resort to QE and bailouts, and do some good, provided they are temporary measures that are balanced out through restructuring. And that they are aimed at relieving pressure for the people in general (whose money pays for it all), not the stakeholders in the very institutions that are being bailed out. We are more than 5 years into this thing and not as much as a second hand car has been marked to market. In fact, the whole concept sounds so foreign by now you can be sure hardly anybody knows what it means anymore. Another Davos stalwart, Stephen Roach of Morgan Stanley Asia, also mentioned zombies in an article for Project Syndicate, which makes a bit - but only a bit - more sense: The Fed Just Doubled-Down On A Plan That Led Us Into The Financial Crisis From the first quarter of 2008 through the second quarter of 2012, annualized growth in [US] real consumption spending has averaged a mere 0.7%—all the more extraordinary when compared with the pre-crisis trend of 3.6% in the decade ending in 2007. The disease is a protracted balance-sheet recession that has turned a generation of America’s consumers into zombies - the economic walking dead. Think Japan, and its corporate zombies of the 1990s. Just as they wrote the script for the first of Japan’s lost decades, their counterparts are now doing the same for the US economy. [..] Steeped in denial, the Federal Reserve is treating the disease as a cyclical problem—deploying the full force of monetary accommodation to compensate for what it believes to be a temporary shortfall in aggregate demand. The convoluted logic behind this strategy is quite disturbing—not only for the US, but also for the global economy. There is nothing cyclical about the lasting aftershocks of a balance-sheet recession that have now been evident for nearly five years. Indeed, balance-sheet repair has barely begun for US households. The personal-saving rate stood at just 3.7% in August 2012—up from the 1.5% low of 2005, but half the 7.5% average recorded in the last three decades of the twentieth century. Moreover, the debt overhang remains massive. The overall level of household indebtedness stood at 113% of disposable personal income in mid-2012—down 21 percentage points from its pre-crisis peak of 134% in 2007, but still well above the 1970-1999 norm of around 75%. In other words, Americans have much farther to go on the road to balance-sheet repair—which hardly suggests a temporary, or cyclical, shortfall in consumer demand. [..] Just as two previous rounds of quantitative easing failed to accelerate US households’ balance-sheet repair, there is little reason to believe that "QE3" will do the trick. Quantitative easing is a blunt instrument, at best, and operates through highly circuitous—and thus dubious—channels. Significantly, it does next to nothing to alleviate the twin problems of excess leverage and inadequate saving. Policies aimed directly at debt forgiveness and enhanced saving incentives—contentious, to be sure—would at least address zombie consumers’ balance-sheet problems. Moreover, the side effects of quantitative easing are significant. Many worry about an upsurge in inflation, though, given the outsize slack in the global economy—and the likelihood that it will persist for years to come—that is not high on my watch list. Far more disconcerting is the willingness of major central banks—not just the Fed, but also the European Central Bank, the Bank of England, and the Bank of Japan—to inject massive amounts of excess liquidity into asset markets – excesses that cannot be absorbed by sluggish real economies. That puts central banks in the destabilizing position of abdicating control over financial markets. For a world beset by seemingly endemic financial instability, this could prove to be the most destructive development of all. That's all fine and well, and Roach provides some interesting numbers, but he doesn't address the core of how zombified the US economy has truly become. Roach names America's consumers as zombies, but not its banks (or other companies and institutions), perhaps due to his own job description. And while one might argue that this is due merely to Mr. Roach focus in this particular piece, it does at the same time prevent one from fully comprehending the issues at hand. When Roach talks about the "massive amounts of excess liquidity" injected by central banks, he fails to mention that these amounts were never - primarily - aimed at remedying household debt. Similarly, where he writes:"Just as two previous rounds of quantitative easing failed to accelerate US households' balance-sheet repair, there is little reason to believe that "QE3" will do the trick", he tempts his reader to overlook the fact that QE was never meant to repair household debt. Zombie banks become what they are because their debts are too large for them to overcome, pay off, conquer. Throwing massive amounts of stimulus money at them can by definition only work if the banks' debts are restructured at the same time, and to an equal standard. This has not been done, and to this day still isn't, because such restructurings bring about large losses for the banks' stakeholders, and it's these stakeholders have as strong and rich a hold on political power as they have on the banks. This political power enables them to evade their own losses and use public money to keep the banks afloat. But they can't live in a world replete with zombies anymore than the less fortunate can, though they don’t understand that this is so, or why that is. A rich owner of a zombie bank in the end can only be, turn into, a zombie him/herself. The worst may hit the poorer a bit earlier, but then, we all have kids. There's a striking similarity with how we all live in this world where we "harvest" all resources we can lay our hands on and kill off much of the natural world in the process, totally oblivious to the obvious fact that we have developed the way we have because that natural world was composed of the elements it was, and there is no guarantee we will survive in the world we create by driving millions of these elements into extinction. But that's topic for another day. What people like Roubini and Roach, along with most of the financial world and hangers on (re: Davos), don't see, quite likely because their livelihoods depend on them not seeing it, is that through trying to save their own world by allowing public funds to turn into zombie money, i.e by not restructuring debt, down the line they hold only zombie money and themselves turn into zombies. Roubini states that we WILL end up with "zombie banks, zombie companies, zombie households, and zombie governments", but he gets his timing wrong - it's already happened - and he doesn't understand why. He gets close, though, got to give him that, saying that it's: "...the consequence of postponing deleveraging". Still that's merely part of the story. What Nouriel doesn't mention is that we can only postpone deleveraging by turning trillions of dollars of the public's funds, and their children's, into zombie money, the kind designed to cover bottomless pits to such a degree you think we can all of us walk on water. Stephen Roach talks about the failure of QE in repairing Joe Blow's finances (household debt), but neglects the reality that no QE was ever intended to do that. In fact, it's exactly because Joe and Jill Blow's - and their children’s- money is used not to save them from ruin, but to save the banks that rule their world, that their money has gone zombie. As in not real, perhaps appearing to be real, but in essence empty and out for your blood. It's attractive and tempting to watch all the news and opinions on offer right now that promise you recovery, but there's no substance in them, they're as zombie as the economy they try so hard to celebrate. It really is simple: The debt is still there, nothing's been fully marked to market, all that's happened over the past five years is that your money has been used to cover up a whole bunch of bottomless holes. And precisely and ironically because it's your money has been used for the cover up, it's your children who are going to fall into those holes. We can either opt to deal with reality or accept that we continue to roam our lives as the zombies we now are. And yes, we do still have that choice.
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How To Spot A Zombie 3 months, 3 weeks ago #6550
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Illargi, beautiful post in your typically well structured prose( and nifty artwork BTW) laying out the opaque anatomy and physiology of the financial devil serpents holding sway over the world economy and squeezing the life out of us. I'm not stupid enough or naive enough to demand that you offer up a solution to this predicament because there isn't one, at least one that can be implemented through the democratic process or by free market dynamics.Wait! There was a solution, and Iceland took it. Some years back President Olafur Grimsson asked the Icelanders to decide whether they wanted to bail out the evil bankers in a referendum. 93% said no, and today it was settled for good and for all by the EFTA court ruling. Unfortunately George Bush did not offer us that option.We had long since put the central banks in place because of repeated boom bust cycles and having a quasi independent head of financial and monetary policy seemed like a possible solution given the prevailing economic assumptions of the day but packing the Fed with Bankers and banks was the fatal flaw along with flawed economic assumptions of that crowd. I'm really starting to hate this roller coaster to hell that goes up and down but never jumps the rails. I wonder what the proximal event will kick it off the tracks....
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Last Edit: 3 months, 3 weeks ago by hugho. Reason: shaky sentence structure, misspellings
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How To Spot A Zombie 3 months, 3 weeks ago #6551
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Mr. Roach doesn't understand it, either. He talks of a 1970-99 average and ignores the trend within. GDP/total credit market debt certainly began to decrease around 1970 but went hyper exponential around 1980. The Federal Reserve is the misinformed clean up crew forty years into the problem.
Net energy does the work that leads to the growth. Oh, Messrs. Roach & Roubini, show me how that's going to happen. |
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How To Spot A Zombie 3 months, 3 weeks ago #6552
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Clearly I have doubts that people get the intent of China, Russia, and India. The process will have as an outcome the ending of the US as the international currency of trade. This is certainly why zombie money doesn't matter in size and shape to the basket of currency model and the ending of deficient governments.
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How To Spot A Zombie 3 months, 3 weeks ago #6553
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The current generation does not believe debt exists. Well let me put it another way. They don't believe balance sheets exist. Particularly bank balance sheets. They could care less what the market value of the debt on the balance sheet is. It doesn't matter to them. What matters is the money is created and what that money does is real. What is on a balance sheet of a bank or the Feds is just an abstraction. This is the root of MMT and MMT is ascendant .
If balance sheets don't matter to citizens (never did in America), accountants, bankers, the central bank, the wealthy and financial elite and finally the government then how is it going to matter in the real world. I mean MMT has a point in that balance sheets are an abstraction and so is money. Money has always been an abstraction. The thing is the abstraction has simply become ever more profound. Everyone knows money is backed by nothing and they have no problem with that. I cannot imagine what economic event or events occurring which would shake peoples faith in money, the dollar specifically. They have an unshakable faith in it now for no possible reason that would be understood for the previous thousands of years in the history of money. I simply cannot imagine what could force a society and culture to suddenly reject it. A few million committed action oriented anarchists perhaps but at this date there are none. (I am not encouraging or hoping for such, just saying) |
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Re: How To Spot A Zombie 3 months, 3 weeks ago #6554
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Moreover, the side effects of quantitative easing are significant. Many worry about an upsurge in inflation, though, given the outsize slack in the global economy—and the likelihood that it will persist for years to come—that is not high on my watch list. Sir, This is an error in your analysis in my opinion. All serious bouts of inflation occurred during times of economic stagnation and malaise. It is no different this time. We have already been witnessing the inflation since the big print began and it will only get much worse from this point onwards. Witness the insane stock markets, commodities prices, ludicrous current advance in real estate prices from specualtors in bed with banksters, Japans current Yen bashing etc etc Inflation is a Monetary Event, it has as much to do with slack in the general economy as the stock market does, namely Zilch. These mad men in charge have made their intentions to inflate their problem away vividly clear, fight them on moral grounds all you wish and I agree with you, but on a practical level they are as you say evil, and in total control of the Fiat Printing Press. Negative interest rates will most likely be their next move if their inflationary goal doesn't ignite quick enough to please them. |
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Re: How To Spot A Zombie 3 months, 3 weeks ago #6555
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" we can only postpone deleveraging by turning trillions of dollars of the public's funds, and their children's, into zombie money,"
And postpone it will be, until the guns are collected. An armed society doesn't go "Zombie" passively. As in Spain, Argentina and Greece, and soon in France and Italy, Americans will find themselves beating on pots and pans and torching newspaper racks as their only recourse. Tyranny won't care. He who is left with the only guns, will make the rules. We are quibbling over nickles and baubles while our Liberty is evaporating. The worlds rulers have entered self preservation mode. Proles beware. www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-01-28/department-homeland-security-purchase-7000-assault-weapons |
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Re: How To Spot A Zombie 3 months, 3 weeks ago #6556
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Mounting evidence in graphs, stats, and in meatspace observations, points to the rentier generation being the one who was bailed out, not "the banks".
Just saying. |
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Hold no debt. I mean it.
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Re: How To Spot A Zombie 3 months, 3 weeks ago #6558
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"Moreover, the side effects of quantitative easing are significant. Many worry about an upsurge in inflation, though, given the outsize slack in the global economy—and the likelihood that it will persist for years to come—that is not high on my watch list."
Sir, This is an error in your analysis in my opinion... That's Stephen Roach speaking, not me. I would tend to agree with what he says here, but I think he defines inflation as rising prices, and I do not. |
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How To Spot A Zombie 3 months, 3 weeks ago #6559
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Ilargi - excellent article. Thank you. Your artwork is wonderful. Intelligent and artistic too! Stoneleigh, your Scale Matters article was brilliant.
Re "Obama has one last chance to be a great president" - I agree, but I don't think he's running the show; just a paid hire. He's being a great president for some, though, the ones who put him there. I hope he proves me wrong. Re Dennis Meadows' quote - "...we are going to evolve through crisis, not through proactive change." Sadly, I totally agree with this quote. We seem incapable of long-term thinking. Like addicts, we think for the moment. We continue on doing what we've always done until we hit the wall at full speed, IMHO. "Two viewpoints (on revolution) are always tenable. The one, how can you improve on human nature until you have changed the system? The other, what is the use of changing the system before you have improved human nature? They appeal to different individuals, and they probably show a tendency to alternate in point of time. The moralist and the revolutionary are constantly undermining one another." George Orwell |
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Re: How To Spot A Zombie 3 months, 3 weeks ago #6561
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Golden Oxen -
Had a great conversation over at Chris Martenson's site about hyperinflation. Came up with a bunch of metrics to detect it. Executive Summary: not happening right now, but size of monetization is getting closer to being worrisome. Here are the indicators we came up with: * monetization of at least 40% of US govt spending + increasing consumer confidence * TIPs yield rising * Loss of reserve currency status * US Dollar dropping * Money velocity increasing See the page I constructed to show these indicators. Note that some of the timeseries on the page only update every 3 months, so they haven't spotted the current monetization effort just yet. But you will get the idea. * Monetization: was zero, now (about) 25% of spending * Consumer Confidence: rising, but still low (below 2000-2008 levels) * TIPS yield: at all-time lows * USD as reserve currency: very slowly dropping, at 61% of global CB reserves * USDX: moving sideways * Money velocity: dropping hyperinflation page |
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Last Edit: 3 months, 3 weeks ago by davefairtex.
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How To Spot A Zombie 3 months, 3 weeks ago #6563
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Prof L&L, you do know that pots and pans brought down the PM in Iceland, right? As I recall the story, the Reykjavik chief of police told the PM that his officers were not about to arrest their grandmothers, and he wasn't about to ask them to. And that was that.
Then when the new PM tried to sell out to the EU, there was a very impressive torchlight parade outside the presidential palace. Being Iceland, absolutely nothing was burned. I believe that many, but not most, Icelandic farms have a long gun for predator control. Somehow they weren't needed for anything else. |
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Re: How To Spot A Zombie 3 months, 3 weeks ago #6564
How To Spot A Zombie 3 months, 3 weeks ago #6566
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Ilargi, I request a new year's statement. A year or so ago Ashvin posted a rant about how we are not back to normal. It was great. With so much discussion in the mainstream media about recovery, it would be great to have a list of bullet points--just off the top of your head--why any talk of a recovery is fantasy. I'm trying to convince some radio people at KPFK that a 20-minute radio interview with you would be a good thing.
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Re: How To Spot A Zombie 3 months, 3 weeks ago #6567
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Hi Sid,
While I entirely agree with your sentiments, I think some of your data went astray. Your 1950's diagram made the following points: Income per year - £8,896 House price - £2,000 Well, I went to an expensive public school (one of the top ten) and the fee was £692 per year in 1964. It is now almost £30,000 per year. An income of £8,896 would have allowed Mr average to send 10 kids to such a school! Let me give you another example. When I graduated as a civil engineer in 1971, my salary was £1,500 per year. I suspect the figure for income given above should be divided by 10 - £889.6 www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1270527/Stowe-School-Two-boys-arrested-knife-attack.html |
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Re: How To Spot A Zombie 3 months, 3 weeks ago #6570
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Hey Scott,
Good to see you here. I'm not sure I'm any good at doing lists and bullet points, I think once I start, I'd want to subdivide each bullet with ten more etc. And I don't know that you best fight bullets with bullets in this field to begin with. I don't try to write finished all-encompassing things, that's not something I have faith in, I'd like to think I take people on a journey, perhaps bumping them slightly left-right, up-down, back-forth from time to time, providing food for their own personal thought. I'll try to think in bullets. But I can still explain quite well without why recovery is fantasy. |
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Re: How To Spot A Zombie 3 months, 3 weeks ago #6575
Re: How To Spot A Zombie 3 months, 3 weeks ago #6583
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Sid,
I am not really interested in discussing public schools - I am simply using the fees as historical data points. They have good and bad points, are pretty different from one another and they change over time so I am unqualified to comment about their latest incarnations. The website www.measuringworth.com suggests that in 1955 average nominal annual earnings were £434 and that that was equivalent to £8,887 in 2010. Personally, I think that was probably equivalent to twice that value at least if the RPI was honest. I mean, people actually used to save money. Sure, their houses were tiny and cold, but that is the way it is in many modern houses. OK, they only had black and white TV and one or two channels, but so what. Few drove, but they were not fat. I could go on in that line ... I don't really know why these estate agents fudged the numbers. I don't think it is a conspiracy - more a case of bad maths. I studied maths at a 3rd world school and didn't need to learn anything in that line between the ages of 12 and 16 when I moved to the UK. It always amazes me how price inflation destroys peoples' ability to think rationally. I gave some gold coins 3 years ago to my grown-up boy. Today, I told him that they had gone up in value by 30% in terms of US dollars. He quickly said that a 30% profit was great. I tried to explain to him that since inflation is really around 10% per annum they had not generated any profit, but had not made a loss either. He shook his head and said that he could not really understand what I was getting at. He gets upset and confused when I offer any of the nuggets that I glean from this website. |
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Last Edit: 3 months, 3 weeks ago by Nassim.
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Re: How To Spot A Zombie 3 months, 2 weeks ago #6587
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Nassim wrote:
The website www.measuringworth.com suggests that in 1955 average nominal annual earnings were £434 and that that was equivalent to £8,887 in 2010. There's that factor twenty again! L, Sid. |
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Re: How To Spot A Zombie 3 months, 2 weeks ago #6588
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Hi Folks,
Of course, some people tell an entirely different story: House prices back on track and no sign of a crash... L, Sid. |
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Re: How To Spot A Zombie 3 months, 2 weeks ago #6607
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davefairtex wrote:
Golden Oxen - Had a great conversation over at Chris Martenson's site about hyperinflation. Came up with a bunch of metrics to detect it. Executive Summary: not happening right now, but size of monetization is getting closer to being worrisome. Here are the indicators we came up with: * monetization of at least 40% of US govt spending + increasing consumer confidence * TIPs yield rising * Loss of reserve currency status * US Dollar dropping * Money velocity increasing See the page I constructed to show these indicators. Note that some of the timeseries on the page only update every 3 months, so they haven't spotted the current monetization effort just yet. But you will get the idea. * Monetization: was zero, now (about) 25% of spending * Consumer Confidence: rising, but still low (below 2000-2008 levels) * TIPS yield: at all-time lows * USD as reserve currency: very slowly dropping, at 61% of global CB reserves * USDX: moving sideways * Money velocity: dropping hyperinflation page Note that the degree of formal acceptance by central banks of the USD as reserve currency is one thing; the acceptance (and probable coming non-acceptance) of the USD as universal currency in trade is another. Vis: Pitched Currency War & USDollar Rejection news.goldseek.com/GoldenJackass/1360270800.php The Coming Isolation of USDollar news.goldseek.com/GoldenJackass/1356642000.php |
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Re: How To Spot A Zombie 3 months, 2 weeks ago #6609
Re: How To Spot A Zombie 2 months, 3 weeks ago #6732
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- • 09 - Revisiting the Financial Fingerprint of Instability
- • 06 - Why Liquidity is No Longer Enough
- • 05 - Their Assumptions are Getting Very Ugly
- • 03 - The Original Street Artist
- • 01 - Modern Myths that Destroy Humanity
- ► February (9)
- • 28 - When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner
- • 26 - Our Depraved Future of Debt Slavery (Part III)
- • 24 - Our Depraved Future of Debt Slavery (Part II)
- • 22 - Our Depraved Future of Debt Slavery (Part I)
- • 20 - The Torture of the European Periphery
- • 18 - We're Still Sinking With the Titanic
- • 15 - Political Theater Will Kill the Status Quo
- • 13 - Die Wahrheit Macht Frei
- • 04 - Who Killed the Money Printer?
- ► January (6)
- ► 2011 (4)
Stoneleigh Occupies:
Nicole Foss Lecture Tour:
AUSTRALIA/NEW ZEALAND March-June 2013
New Zealand May/June Dates still available
May 24 Waiheke Island
Palm Beach Hall 6.30pm
May 27 Auckland
The Hillsborough Room, The Fickling Centre (Mount Eden) 7.30pm
May 29 Tauranga
Baycourt 7.15pm
May 30 Wellington
Sustainability Trust, 2 Forresters Lane 5.30pm
June 1 Otaki
Clean Technology Centre 47 Miro St. 1.30pm
US Fall 2013 - Dates Available
Request Lectures: StoneleighTravels •at• gmail •dot• com.
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