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TOPIC: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner

When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #694

Detroit Publishing Co. Nôtre Dame de Montréal 1900 "Main altar, Church of Notre Dame, Montreal, Quebec."

 

This is a Guest Post by long time TAE regular, El Gallinazo.

A subject that commonly comes up in TAE is what to do with your savings if you have too much to stuff in "that creative place" that Nicole often refers to. And what she suggests is that the safest place to put it is in short term treasuries. If you are a citizen or a legal alien in the USA, that means T-bills, and if your money is not tax deferred, the only sensible way to do it is via Treasury Direct. A couple of days ago one of my closer friends sent me the following piece by Robert Moore on Rick’s Picks:

T-Bills May Offer Boomers a ‘Safe’ Way to Lose

She sent it with the message, "What's this mean?" She is never one for verbose emails. As you might imagine, the title of the article by Robert Moore, intrigued me, but as I read through it I became a bit irate, and I decided to reply with a comment. Well this comment got supersized and I thought it might have the makings of a feature on TAE. I haven't done one for almost a year. Instead of interleaving my commentary with the offending article, I would like to present it in a continuous format. So may I suggest that you read the Moore article and perhaps some of the comments and then come back.

I found this article to be quite irritating, not because your ideas were ipso facto bogus, but that you should label anyone who might disagree with them to be a fool and ignoramus. The entire premise of your article is that we are headed into a period of immediate global inflation or hyperinflation. However, there are some very bright people, Nicole Foss (Stoneleigh) of The Automatic Earth comes first to mind, who believe that the collapse of the global Ponzi, which began in 2008, and which is slowly accelerating, will result in the short term, perhaps several years, in a global deflationary depression.

She maintains that this deflation is already under way, in the Austrian School use of the word, as a net reduction in the sum of money, credit, and velocity. Mish also believes this. The continuing collapse of the shadow banking system and consequent credit destruction are the current cause though it is soon to spread to the TBTF banks and sovereign treasury bonds. This will lead in the short term to a price deflation of paper and physical assets in terms of the USD, which can already be seen in regard to US residential real estate.

The inflationistas will counter that the Fed and the other central banks will never allow a deflationary collapse. They will "print" their way eventually into hyperinflation (HI). (I put print in quotations because expanding debt through a central bank is really quite different from actually printing paper currency for which there is no true debt holder, but simply a dilution of the currency value.) This assumes that first they would want to, and second that they can. As to the first point, probably only the Rockefellers and the Rothschilds have an accurate idea of what the cartel's long term strategy is.

A severe deflation, which they would have prepared for as they have engineered it, would allow them to buy up the remaining physical assets of the globe for pennies on the dollar. And could they prevent it even if they wished to? The growth of the central bank's balance sheets of the USA, ECB, UK, and Japan since the collapse started in 2008 is less than $5T. (I am leaving China out as their statistics are moot). The collapse in global real estate values alone is considerably larger, and when you include all asset classes and throw in the quadrillion dollar derivative market, it is many times that. There are many expert analysts who predict that when the defaults begin in earnest, Uncle Ben and Don Capo Draghi will be as helpless as the Wizard of Oz to stop it. They will be overwhelmed by the collapse of the Ponzi resulting in a tsunami of default.

But let me regress for a moment to contemplate the strategic plans of the NWO. Some might say that the capos of the global banking cartel have no long term strategy. That they do not even discuss this concept with each other and all their actions are based upon fear and greed with a time horizon of 72 hours. They might even argue that the Bilderbergers, like Wendy's, simply wish to compete with McDonalds, and the Trilateral Commission and the CFR are just watering holes with good leather upholstery. But for those people who believe that the people who possess most of the world's wealth and coercive power might deem it as useful to construct a long term business plan as a garage based entrepreneur, we might give it a little thought.

My conclusion is that the final goal is to subject the global 99% into permanent debt serfdom. But if they permit the currencies upon which those debts were structured to go into hyperinflation, then the potential debt serfs could divert a wheelbarrow full of said currency from their home heating systems and buy their way out of life long debt servitude into the bright light of freedom, if one of debt free poverty. Ah yes, as Janis wailed, "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose." So I must conclude that the NWO capos regard HI as a potential disaster to be avoided.

But any intelligent economist, meaning one of the Austrian School, will freely admit that the natural consequence of the world's all time hugest bubble bursting is a deflationary collapse, as in deflation. And that the only way that could be conceivably avoided would be for the central banks to "print" stupendous amounts of offsetting credit. But this could lead to a global HI which are the bankers' worst nightmare as it would essentially lead to a jubilee for the 99%.

In a severe deflationary collapse, most assets will drastically lose value in nominal terms. In my opinion, the S&P 500 is absurdly overpriced. Every time the Fed or the ECB expands their balance sheets, whether covertly (currency swaps) or openly, the so call risk assets surge. So what are the options of a person with some savings? We have the general risk assets of equities and commodity futures, physical assets such as land and buildings as well as assorted junk from China, bonds excluding the US Treasury, US Treasuries, and the precious metals.

So if deflationary collapse, which I predict, does come to pass, then all but the last two will be obvious losers in both nominal and real terms. As to precious metals, it is my opinion that they will maintain their real value over the longer term, as they have since the time of Rome. However, I believe that during the collapse, PMs will lose nominal value for two basic reasons. First, their current nominal value is artificially high because it is propped up by extreme margin leverage extended primarily by the commodity brokers (such as MF Global) and their backers (JPMC). What do you think the value of paper gold would be if there were no credit to buy it on margin? And I think we are rapidly entering a world where most credit is disappearing.

Second, I think that many during the collapse will be forced to sell PMs, particularly gold, to meet margin calls, trying to stave off insolvency. Gold may be the only thing that anyone might be interested in buying at that point in time, and it would become a buyer's market. I do believe, however, that gold will be the first physical asset to recover.

So here we are with US Treasury Bills as the last of the list. Let me state for the record that I am a retiree with modest savings; that most of my savings are in 13 week treasuries purchased through Treasury Direct, and that I am currently living in Mexico in very modest comfort on my Social Security checks. In short, I am one of Robert's idiots.

Now let me direct my idiotic blather to several of his points as well as supporting commenters:

* When the currency of a country appears to be nearing collapse (most would regard this as imminent HI), then the yield on the bonds go into an exponential moon shot. This is because lenders would want to be compensated for the loss of real value as well as the probability of sovereign bond default. Greece is not a great example as it doesn't have its own currency, but look at the current yield of their six month bonds. One might look at Argentina 2000-02 for a better example. So Robert is correct that only we idiots would invest in sovereign debt at 0 or negative nominal yields.

Say a currency does go into a deflationary collapse of 7% per annum in terms of general purchasing power, and you hold bonds with a minus 2% yield. While you are losing 2% in nominal terms, you are actually gaining a 5% yield in real terms. This appears strange to people simply because the Fed criminals have kept the country in inflation since 1913 with a few modest exceptions such as the Great Depression.

* Moore suggests that it would be smarter to kept your savings in currency under your mattress than in T-bills. First, the Fed and the NWO Banking Cartel frown upon currency. It is one of the few remaining areas of freedom and privacy in the money world. They would prefer to have every pack of gum you purchase recorded in their computers, complete with brand and number of pieces contained in the package. In order to villainize cash, anyone with large sums is ipso facto regarded by the "authorities" as either a drug dealer or a terraist. And this tends to be at the discretion of the Secretary of the Treasury or his minions. Recent "laws" in this regard deprive you of any judicial recourse, on the off chance that the courts are not totally rigged.

So anyone holding large amounts of currency is subject to it's confiscation. Second, I challenge anyone to go to his bank, if you live in the USA, and try to withdraw, say $8000 in cash. See how easy and hassle free it is. First, they usually ask you, in writing, what it is for, like it is a loan and not your own money. When you tell them to go to hell, they tell you that Turbo Timmah made them ask it. For most, the only hassle free way to accumulate cash is to take out the daily max from your ATM. But I would imagine that the banks will shortly build a weekly or monthly limit into their ATM programs.

* Next we come to bank savings which includes CD's. Legally your savings are a loan to the bank, and with the repeal of Glass-Steagall, your bank may go to the casino and gamble with it as it sees fit, or give it out as a bonus for their deserving traders to purchase hookers and snort. And with recent federal legislation, holders of derivative instruments are the first in line when a bank fails. Please note the transfer of $60T in derivative wagers from the Merrill-Lynch division to the BAC FDIC flagship. Wonder why they did that?

The segregated accounts at MF Global were legally more secure than any checking account, CD, or money market account. They were essentially virtual safety deposit boxes in which MFG was given the authority to take out money only upon the account holder's explicit orders to purchase future contracts or cover margins. Yet Corzine and Dimon stole as much as $2B from these accounts without even a hiccup from Eric PlaceHolder, who was too busy running guns to the Zetas in Mexico. And you think your money in the bank is safe?

* And now we come to the FDIC. First, that Robert should accept the $250k limit at face value is bizarre. A joint account is insured up to $500k, and insurance goes by the account not by the person. So if some dude has five million bucks, he just opens up 20 accounts and puts $250k in each. No hay problema. But will the FDIC pay off on a systemic collapse of the banking system. Note that the C in FDIC stands for corporation. And it is basically broke as we breath. Are TPTB willing to monetize $5T to pay off account holders?

One may observe that the balance sheet of the Fed after all the illegal and quasi legal crap gone down over the last 4 years, including taking near worthless assets off the hands of their buddies at face value, stands at under $3T. So I don't think so. The Boyz don't put their money in checking accounts or CD's and the Boyz run the show. As the late George Carlin put it, "It's a club and you're not in it." I think it is far more probable that they will pay out the account holders a nominal sum, like $400 a month, until it is paid off in the 22nd century.

* As everyone interested in macroeconomics knows, since 1971 when Nixon closed the gold window, money is debt and nothing more. And the debt that supports the US currency is the Treasury debt. So the dollar is totally dependent on the confidence of the world in the US Treasury. The collapse of the Treasury would result in the dollar immediately becoming worthless, i.e. instant HI. There are some very intelligent people who believe that the NWO intends to collapse the dollar eventually and replace it with a global currency. I am one of them (though you may leave out the intelligent descriptive in my case).

And the easiest way to collapse the dollar is to collapse the confidence in the Treasury. However, in my opinion this is in the future and not the immediate future. And the advantage of buying T-bills through Treasury Direct is that you have no "private sector" broker in the middle (Jon Corzine for example) to steal them. The drawback is that you cannot use tax deferred funds to buy them. But the ominous future on tax deferred funds would be the makings of a rant for another day. It seems that people are becoming too irresponsible not to wait until after they die to withdraw them.

In a severe deflationary collapse, what appeared to be money during the bubble expansion (really credit) disappears with barely a trace as it is sucked into an alternate universe. Since the total sum of money and credit becomes a small fraction of what it was at the bubble's peak, the vast majority of asset holders become losers both in nominal and real terms. With a few very rare exceptions, the ones who lose the least - win.

So, in summary, I remain "invested" in 13 week T-bills through Treasury Direct and have no intention of being forced into risk assets or using up my modest savings in a couple of years and then eating dog kibble.

Your faithful idiot,

El Gallinazo

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When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #695

Great article El G! Entertaining as always and very clearly written.
I hope you become a regular official writer for TAE.
I always look for your stuff and it would enrich TAE if your thoughts were regularly featured on the front page rather than tucked into comments here and there.

When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #698

El G - extremely well written. Thank you. Please write more. I like your humour too!

When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #699

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You may be faithful, El Gallinazo, but you're not an idiot ..
You may have to come out of retirement and educate us a little more.. and yes, I like the humour, too!

When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #701

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Well done El G. And I'm with those who would be glad to read essays by you. You are after all retired, so you have no excuses.

On a lighter note, here is a link to a short video of a waiter spilling beer on Angela Merkel. I suppose that this is what comes of serving beer in overgrown wine glasses.

When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #702

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She flinched more when ol' Bush jr tried to give her a shoulder rub.

When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #703

Thanks to everyone for the kind words.

As to:

"She flinched more when ol' Bush jr tried to give her a shoulder rub."

I condemn her for many things, but that is not one of them. I too would prefer the touch of an honest German brew on my skin than the hands of a cognitively challenged mass murderer.

When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #704

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That was superb but misses the prime directive by a mile. T-Bill's are still worthless IOU's. Unfortunately, the deleveraging and deflation is precisely why there is going to be massive hyper-inflation. It is already underway.

The writing is on the wall, the USA NWO banking empire will either HI the currency and subsequent debts away or they will no longer be in power. These same power hunger banking freaks destroy nations everyday, and I'm suppose to buy their bloody deadly T-Bill's to remain solvent. Get real.

These centuries old demonic banking parasite families will not relinquish power without the battle of the millennium. There will surely be deflation in crap and garbage you don't need to survive and HI in everything else you must have to survive. That's how they own everything of value.

Savings in T-Bill's only assures that you will be eating dog food to survive much sooner than you ever thought possible.

This site just a few short weeks ago was trumpeting the ridicules notion that gold was a poor investment going forward, and now the disgusting fraudulent worthless FED Reserve T-Bill's are the flavor of the day.

I am truly in the Twilight Zone when such incredibly smart people such as those at TAE think the well documented Ponzi Scheme of fraudulent and worthless paper instruments such as T-Bill's is the savior for the impending collapse.

Scotty, beam me up!

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #706

I agree with most of your analysis EG, but I don't like any financial instrument which depends on the intermediary of the financial markets to divest yourself of in a hurry. You want the most fungible stuff you can lay your hands on, which generaly speaking are Paper FRNs. They work just about everywhere, even Drug Dealers in Mejico take them no questions asked

Though Inflation in some commodities is going to occur as long as the TBTF are issued ZIRP money to speculate with, HI is more a relative phenomena between currencies as weak ones get squashed. So the Euro is a ripe one these days for HI, but the Dollar is not yet, and until the Euro is flushed down the toilet, its not likely to devalue that fast.

So anyhow, I'm long on FRNs in the Bank of Sealy and buried in various locations along with some of the Gold I have panned up over the years, and I don't concern myself with the idea of trying to conserve mega bucks worth of investments I cannot really extinguish for cash. If its a Long Emergency slow crash, I can dribble out liquidiations and exist in perpetuity. In a Seneca Effect style fast crash, just about everything except Guns, Ammo and Pint Bottles of Vodka will be quite worthless.

How do you get hold of FRNs under the Radar? You can't take out $8K at once, you have to do it a couple hundred at a time, every paycheck. I started back in 2008

Will HI hit the Dollar at some point? Possibly, but unlikely before it takes out the Euro and the Yen, so you should have decent warning on that. When you see prices going up EVERY DAY in the Supermarket as was the case when I lived in Brasil back in the 60s, you dump your Cruzeiros for Hard Goods as fast as you earn them. Until then its the 3 Fs, Fungability, Flexibility and FOOD in the larder. Oh yea, don't forget the Guns and Ammo and Pint Bottles of Vodka either!

RE
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Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #709

My two cents, for what its worth.

If your choices boil down to deposits in a bank, money market accounts, and Treasury Direct, its pretty clear to me that removing the middle men is likely the safest approach.

* Paper FRNs - safest cash vehicle. Legal tender for all debts public and private. Cash is ultimately safer than debt, since there is no counterparty risk. However, they can always catch fire and burn up, which is not ideal.
* Treasury Direct - safest electronic deposit; can't be stolen, but could have maturities extended arbitrarily (as will happen in Greece).
* FDIC insured deposits - can't be stolen, could be impounded "for a while" if your bank goes under, but ultimately are only as good as the FDIC's ability to borrow from Treasury, which depends on the Fed's ability to monetize in a serious crisis.
* Treasuries in an account - can be stolen as they were at MF Global
* Money Market accounts - could break the buck, can also be stolen as at MF Global

To me, its first cash, and then treasury direct for safer USD storage vehicles. And if I lived in Mexico, I think I'd pick Treasury Direct. I don't think I'd want a big pile of USD cash lying around my villa...

If you are dead certain that hyperinflation comes next, then of course cash isn't the right choice.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Viscount St. Albans

When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #711

@ Reverse Engineer.
Thanks for that comment above. I enjoyed it and your rationale. It's a nice supplement to the themes introduced in El G's article. I would love to hear more about the details of your experience in Brazil in the 60's. I'm very interested in on-the-ground perspectives of folks who've lived through wholesale financial meltdown. How did it look and how did it feel? How did the daily acitivities and patterns of life devolve as instability grew around you? What did the neighbors say and when did they start to panic....that sort of thing. It would be a great feature article (IMO).
Last Edit: 1 year, 2 months ago by Viscount St. Albans.

When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #712

@ vortex....
interesting thoughts. As many others have pointed out before, there are hedging strategies that don't necessarily involve the investment portfolio. Skill development in the form of job training and or new business skills can be a mechanism to keep a foot in both worlds. I think it's possible to invest with a mind towards deflation while preparing oneself for productive work in a world where very few things hold stable value for sustained lengths of time outside the black markets.
Examples of productive work: Micro-scale (i.e. broad generalist skills vs. hyper-specialized skills) in health care, repair, agrculture, food and beverage preparation, transportation, and construction. Pretty much everything that's done today but with an eye towards the micro-local scale vs. the macro vertically integrated multi-national corporate scale. Friend of a friend of a friend is a bike mechanic, and that's merely one example of a useful skill set to have in the future. Invest in T-bills while learning to build/repair bikes and bike paraphaneilia (tow-behind carts etc). By hook or by crook, whether you believe in HI or deflation, a growing fraction of the global population will be riding bikes vs. driving in the years ahead. It would be good to have the skill set to build/repair bike based transportation before it becomes a necessity for the upper 30% clerical/managerial class of the income scale.
Last Edit: 1 year, 2 months ago by Viscount St. Albans.

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #713

Re: on-the-ground perspectives of financial meltdown

Does TAE have any readers in Eastern Europe/Peripheral Western Europe who could supply us with personal stories of how the intense deflationary crunch is being experienced day-to-day?
Every so often the western flag-ship press (NYtimes, WSJ, Telegraph, Guardian etc) runs an anecdotal human interest story that intends to make the pain of deflation real for its readership. But a boots-on-the-ground perspective of day-to-day life of someone experiencing the evolving hardships in peripheral Europe would be enlightening.
I would greatly value real time reporting of the seemingly mundane, yet often revealing, observations of life on the ground in these nations most affected by the deflationary crunch -- not from a schadenfreude perspective, but rather from the perspective of living and learning from the experiences and observations of others.
Last Edit: 1 year, 2 months ago by Viscount St. Albans.

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #714

Viscount St. Albans wrote:
@ Reverse Engineer.
Thanks for that comment above. I enjoyed it and your rationale. It's a nice supplement to the themes introduced in El G's article. I would love to hear more about the details of your experience in Brazil in the 60's. I'm very interested in on-the-ground perspectives of folks who've lived through wholesale financial meltdown. How did it look and how did it feel. How did the daily acitivities and patterns of life devolve as instability grew around you. What did the neighbors say and when did they start to panic....that sort of thing. It would be a great feature article (IMO).


I've written some articles about my Brasil years in the past, but I was a Boy/Observer of the effects, not an Adult Brasileiro who had to deal with it. My family also was relatively immune from these effects, because my father was receiving his salary in Dollars.

For my friends whose families were paid in Cruzeiros, it was generally panic all the time and a struggle to keep ahead of the game. The military was out in the streets quite often in those days. However, even in Rio in those years the local farmers markets were operational and a good deal of barter went on. It would be quite a different situation today I think.

It also is much different in the sense of being a relative effect. See, when a local currency like the Curzeiro HIs, a currency like the Dollar still works and a Black Market flourishes, the economy essentially "Dollarizes" for a while. Same thing occured with the Rouble in Dmitri Orlov's crashign Soviet Union.

This is not going to be the case when the cascade works its way back into the center of Fiat money creation, and it does not matter whether its the Dollar or an SDR substitute. There just will not be any functioning FOREX for trade, and the letters of credit will collapse. There really will not BE a Black market at all, not even for buying stuff with Gold Coins stored in your Basement Safe.

This kind of monetary collapse has not occurred since the time of the Roman Empire. Its been a constant build out from the Medici period onward. Many smaller relative collapses, but no COMPLETE collapse of a monetary system has occurred through this time period. In fact in the Historical Record there really are only two of such magnitude, that would be Rome and Babylon before that. This one is bigger than both of those because in fact they were localized to a relatively small portion of the globe being run under monetary principles of debt-credit issuance. In this case it is Global with 7B people participating in it, excluding virtually nobody except a few Amazonian Tribes, a few Bushmen in the Kalahari and a few Inuit up in Nunavut. When it fails, its going to be something to behold indeed, something never before witnessed in all of Human History, and you have a Front Row Seat for it on the 50 yard line. Count yourself lucky, very few people in history get to witness the complete collapse of a monetary system. Its Coming Soon to a Theatre Near You.

RE
www.doomsteaddiner.org

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #715

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One thing that I have learned is life is that we live in a world mostly of hypocrisies and ironies. Truth tends to dive out of sight and hide... or more precisely, is hidden by those who desire control. There is always a veneer that the masses don't see beyond, and it forms the reality that they operate off of and interact with. With important matters, things always seem to be the opposite... what appears to be white is actually black, what appears to be fiction is actually fact. (I'm a poet and I don't know it.)

It seems that major inflation or HI would be detrimental to TPTB. It would cause interest rates to rise and then there would be no chance of the US govmt being able to service its debt. Plus, all the "debt slaves" would be able to get out of debt by paying it off with cheaper dollars.

Thus, inflation or HI—and the strategy of buying gold and silver, real estate and other tangibles to survive it—may be the veneer. What a perfect set up: Bernanke chases all savers out of savings accounts and treasuries and into the stock market, real estate and other risky investments (forcing them to take a risk to get a return and "protect their money from losing its purchasing power") and also gets them more into debt with these "lowest mortgage rates in history" and ".99%, no down payment, 6 year loans on a new car" , etc.... and then WHAM! the deflation cycle starts to move fast and heavy and all assets go down in value to a LOW bottom. Those with assets and debt get creamed. Only those who saw through the veneer and stayed in cash are able to survive because in a deflation... CASH IS KING, because cash is scarce.

The power elite now move in and scoop up the assets for pennies on the dollar and increase their net worth again for the umpteenth time.

The best strategy may very well be to "be the bank". Figure out the strategy of the power elite and do exactly what they are doing at the level you are capable of.

Personally, I'm fully liquid, no gold or silver, no debt, continuing to streamline my living expenses, strengthening my health and immune system, building skills and businesses so I can exchange services for value no matter what the economic climate, and looking for a self-sufficient community to join.
Last Edit: 1 year, 2 months ago by alfbell.

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #716

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The other 'thing' to invest in - as Stoneleigh has mentioned is to invest in building your trust horizon. Work hard, do what you say, be honest in your dealings etc. This has to go on within the parameters of a community of people who know each other. In a big old city it can be a waste of time. I lived in the same street in Melbourne Australia (pop 4 million) for 14 years and no one really knew each other and trust was okay at best. I then moved to a small town about 125 kilometres north and it is vastly different. In a big city if someone smashed a public asset like a toilet block it just gets deferred to the 'authorities' but in a small town it is everyone's business. People actively want to do something about issues and people sort of keep each other honest - or you can go out of business.
I agree big time with the skills thing too. In an attempt to mitigate the disaster of financial shit going down, it is well worth the investment in reducing exposure to need money in what ever form. My current example is with a friend in a close town. I have worked for him for a few days and we are logging the hours so I have those days in the bank. The thing is if he never paid me back his name would be a bit crap and would be shamed a bit so it works as long as either party is not over extended. This can be done with so many things like baby-sitting etc. I still like the idea of a coupla grand in paper notes buried in the forest too. Oh and about 50 kg of rice and the rest as a buffer against a really nasty dive.
My two cents.
Great article El G!

When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #719

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Excellent summation. Thank you!

When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #721

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Thank you for a very interesting article El G.

I've been following Nicole Foss and TAE for awhile now and decided very early on that I needed to secure my cash/build myself a lifeboat of sorts.

After reading about our own "FDIC" and the rest of the "guarantees" that the banks is supposed to give me as a saver I got a nice knot in my stomach. So the decision was made to look elsewhere for safety.

This is what I found:
Here, in Sweden, we got something called Riksgälden who administers our state debt. This government authority gives us citizens a way to escape the clutches of the banks by letting us set up an account directly with the Swedish Government.

This account works like a savings account and you get some interest from it also. It's tied to you personally and you can access your account instantly (as in 6 working days to administer the withdrawal). The interest right now is 1,25% (our "fed" rate of 1,5 - 0,25).

Perhaps there are some from Sweden who reads this and thinks this is usefull for them also.

Best regards.
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When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #722

Hello Viscount,

I am from Slovakia and work in the Czech Republic. I do not think the full blown deflation has hit (as nowhere in the world, just yet), but right now we are having massive anti-corruption demonstration in our country and in the Czech Republic, students are protesting against new reforms. In Slovakia there have also been protests among the doctors who were protesting against privatization of hospitals etc... on the other hand, mortgage frenzy is ongoing... Alex
The following user(s) said Thank You: Elle

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #724

  • ashvin
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Vortex wrote:
The writing is on the wall, the USA NWO banking empire will either HI the currency and subsequent debts away or they will no longer be in power. These same power hunger banking freaks destroy nations everyday, and I'm suppose to buy their bloody deadly T-Bill's to remain solvent. Get real.


Vortex,

Do you use fossil fuels? The banking-energy complex has been destroying nations and environments for many decades now, yet most us would still make use of the [steadily declining] energy returns afforded by these fuels if it was a matter of survival. That's what T-bills may provide above many other assets - a way to make it through the short and medium-term and have a long-term to worry about. All of us "very smart" people here at TAE have carefully considered the HI arguments, and decided we would still be remiss not to warn of potential near-term consequences of holding PMs and the benefits of holding cash and cash equivalents.
Last Edit: 1 year, 2 months ago by ashvin.

When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #726

Very interesting and concise analysis. The third to last paragraph interested me very much. Assuming your assets in your IRA are in 13 week T bills as you recommend, would you remove the assets from the IRAs, pay the taxes and then move them into Treasury direct. As you are aware assets in IRAs are through some Schwab etc. Any thoughts about closing IRAs now and paying taxes or waiting.

When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #728

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Thanks for the good analysis. I have been using Treasury Direct for a while and only in the past week discovered the danger of letting the government hold your savings: government agencies are inefficient and often very dumb. Last Fall TD changed it's security procedures. Since then they have locked out tens of thousands of customers who couldn't correctly answer the (very poorly designed) security questions. You can't get back in without talking to a human customer service representative, and guess what? There aren't enough of them. Surprise, surprise. I was locked out of my account for five days because they asked me what was the first car I bought and I answered the make and model instead of just the model. I strongly suspect that I would still be locked out if I hadn't called my Congressman and emailed my Senator about the problem. My numerous phone calls and emails were ignored until then. Within three hours of calling/emailing my representatives, I received a call back from a very competent person who quickly had my account unlocked.
At this point, I have little confidence that I won't be "locked out" of my TD account when I need it.

When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #731

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SOS! Someone of you the smart guys out there, please teach me how to buy the 13 week (or so) T-bills IN CANADA so that they are in my name, as Nicole suggests. The housing bust here is nearing, but selling a house and park money on savings account or "creative place" seems even riskier than keeping the house. Thank you!!!

When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #732

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Your comment about a payout taking place at $400/mo to infinity caught my attention.
My first thought was that all those tea-baggers who rail against welfare and unemployment 'entitlements' might jump at salvation by 'payout'.
After enough hedonic adjustment in paychecks, getting your own money back (or whatever spin they'd want to put on mass bribery of the populace) via monthly check (Walmart cash card?) might seem oh so patriotic.

A politician/government who could throw a palatable bone to voters would be a shoo-in, and not many would look that gift horse in the mouth.

When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #734

First, let me express my admiration for the quality of the comments here on TAE. It makes the writing feel worth while. The article was also picked up on the front page of Business Insider (who knew?) as we New Yawkers would say. Haven't read their comment section yet.


Franny. Yeah, they changed their security, and I feel for the worse also. I liked the old matrix card. A commenter here brought it up last month, I forget who, and he mentioned that you only get two strikes before they send you back to the dugout, and you better have that second cup of coffee before you log on. I also recommend that you keep all your td.gov security stuff written down exactly in a safe place. (Not on your computer. To large a chance that it can be commandeered over the broadband). Td.gov is a bit "stricter" than most "savings institution when you screw up your security, but most of them revoke your rights after a certain number of strikes.

Here's a short story. When still in residence in St. John, I arrived in Cusco, Peru, and as usual, came down with a mild case of altitude sickness for three days (Zero to 11,250 feet in half an hour). My bank, Scotia, had branches all over Latin America, though none in the 50 states. I found one of their ATM machines, but I had my PIN in my head (which wasn't hitting on all its cylinders) as a four letter word, and this machine only had numbers on the key pad. Well, I screwed it up trying three times and it ate my card. It was a Sunday when all the banks were closed, and I had to meet my girlfriend in Puno that night. Fortunately, I had enough dollar FRN's stashed on my person to get by, as well as a credit card (which charged a usurious rate to extract cash). Two weeks later, I returned to Cusco, and went to the Cusco office of Scotia there. Interestingly, no one spoke English (well it's a Canadian bank) though there must have been more than 20 staff, but I managed to get my question posed in my mangled Spanish. The manager pulls out a stack of ATM cards from his draw, flips through them, and there is mine. He says that he should have sent it to the head office in Lima long ago but they were running behind. But this is not the end of the story. The card no longer worked. Bank offices in Peru couldn't trace the problem. I called Scotia in St. John by telephone, and they could not find any hold. When I got back, I tried the card in the cash cow outside the Scotia branch and it worked fine. The next time I was on Tortola, British Virgin Islands and about 5 km away as the albatross flies, it didn't work. So there was some sort of international hold that didn't apply locally. I finally solved the problem by demanding a new ATM card with a new number.

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #736

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El Gallinazo said ...
In a severe deflationary collapse, most assets will drastically lose value in nominal terms.

alfbell said ...

Only those who saw through the veneer and stayed in cash are able to survive because in a deflation... CASH IS KING, because cash is scarce.

The best strategy may very well be to "be the bank". Figure out the strategy of the power elite and do exactly what they are doing at the level you are capable of.

Dig Dirt ...
I agree big time with the skills thing too. In an attempt to mitigate the disaster of financial shit going down, it is well worth the investment in reducing exposure to need money in what ever form.

I might add,

Position yourself to be able to make a secondary cash flow that is not taxable.
Keep in mind that local gov. and all other levels of gov. will be wanting more of your income to meet the obligations of past promises which cannot be kept and of course to pay off loans that they made.

Learn the “Greek Way”!

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #739

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US Treasury Direct is one of the only way to save money for US citizens living in foreign countries now that the US government is forcing almost ALL foreign banks to limit bank accounts by US citizens and US resident aliens to less than $10,000 (including PM equivalents) under FATCA rules. This extends to accidental US citizens, who either took foreign citizenship (assuming they were renouncing their US citizenship), or had parents or in some cases grandparents who were once US citizens.

The FATCA rules also extend to family trusts where the trust includes one or more US citizens as is commonly done in Israel and among extended family clans such as East Indians in Canada.

As a start, European bank accounts, stocks and bonds of even European citizens living in the US are now being frozen by banks such as BNP and the proceeds being forceably transferred to US banks.

It will get exceedingly hard for US citizens to live abroad except under US government/corporate contract. The one exception are bank accounts with the Chinese National Banks which is exempt under FATCA. The IRS is setting up offices worldwide (including China) to enforce the FATCA rules.

When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #740

Joanne:

The original Tea Party supporters had a lot more in common with the Occupy movement before it was taken over by the Koch Suckers. Charlie McGrath of Wide Awake radio was an activist in the early movement and quit when it got co-opted by the fascists.

From my experience of a year in Argentina, the populace ten years later did not look back in gratitude toward the banker controlled politicians when their accounts were frozen down to a withdrawal trickle. People in the USA also still regard their money in the bank as their money. How childish of them.



My feature was picked up by the Business Insider blog on the front page. I found the comments on TAE to be both brighter, more circumspect, and "more wholesome" than BI, and I am glad to be part of this virtual community.

And I am not positive that HI is impossible in the near future, it just seems much less likely to me. I think that the game plan of the CB capos right now is to aim for "moderate" inflation to reduce sovereign debt and bail out the banks. While Uncle Ben says he would like to see 2%, he is of course a pathological liar and is probably aiming for around 6 or 7%. But so was the Bank of Japan in the early 90's and look how successful they have been. They have had over 20 years to circle down the HI drain with their massive QE and ZIRP. As a matter of fact, they are printing like crazy in order to keep their currency worth less than 76 to the dollar.

What all the goldbug hyperinflationistas claim (and I am not anti-gold; I just don't see it as a panacea) is that the central bankers will hyper print to save the banks which will lead to HI. This reminds me of the old Vietnam War saw, that we destroyed the village to save it. When you point out that HI will certainly not save the banks, they fall back to the position that Ben and Mario and their puppet masters are too stupid to know that. I, for one, certainly do not think Ben and Mario are stupid. Scumbags yes, but not stupid scumbags.

But Yogi, certainly the greatest Zen philosopher of the 20th century, summed it up with:

Prediction is very hard, especially about the future.

The BI guys always refer to Weimar, but there were a lot of other things going on in Weimar. First you had alternate currencies including the Dollar and the British pound banknotes floating around, and this changes everything compared to a HI where this is no alternate currency. Same deal in Zimbabwe. Reverse Engineer points out in an excellent comment that this hasn't happened since the collapse of Rome. And that was much slower. As with size, speed does matter And Weimar had a vengeful purpose to devaluating their currency as they wished to pay off their war reparation banksters in toilet paper.

And I don't mean to imply in my article that maintaining the purchasing power of savings is the primary focus for surviving the apocalypse. However, if one is officially in old age and/or has physical or medical problems that make the likelihood of physical, backbreaking work to be productively unlikely, and have accrued enough savings that they would have seen one through to the grave in less larcenous times, then paying special attention to this aspect of the apocalypse may have its advantages.
Last Edit: 1 year, 2 months ago by el gallinazo.

When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #741

  • seychelles
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Very nice summary article and good to see El G posting again.
It is imperative in this politico-legal environment to have as few intermediaries between savers and their money as possible. This means closing down retirement accounts to preempt their legalized theft by authorized fiscal intermediaries. How can anyone who understands MF Global not come to this conclusion? Also, as the monetary situation deteriorates, retirement accounts, because of their "tax-privileged status" will be among the first to be forced into losing investments for the "good of the nation" and/or restricted payout timetables.
While it is taking Treasury Direct some time to dig out from the mess that they created from themselves, it is much easier to contact them than it was a month or so ago. Last week, I needed to speak with a representative on two different occasions and each time after phoning (304) 480-7711, I was able to speak with a courteous and helpful clerk after less than five minutes. It is MOST important to log into your TD account carefully and correctly to avoid a temporary lockout, as
they are grossly understaffed for direct interaction and the situation will be much worse (than recently) in a financial crisis.

When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #747

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I have some funds in Treasury Direct but am wondering about how it might play out to redeem them in the midst of a banking crisis. Assuming as it has been suggested that we get into a severe deflationary depression with commensurate bank closures, bank runs and even a bank holiday. At some point you find it necessary to convert your treasury bill into cash in hand. When the term of your t-bill ends it is going to be deposited to the institution where the funds were drawn from which is your bank. Suddenly there is $50,000 showing in your checking account but if the banks are in trouble because they never had the actual funds to cover what people had showing in their accounts how are going to be able to withdraw your cash?

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #751

  • seychelles
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Vulcanelli
First of all, either reinvest the matured proceeds or direct then to your C of I (Certificate of Indebtedness) file. Since you can transfer
from C of I to your linked bank acccounts within 24-48 hours, you only transfer to institutions that seem safe and preferably early in the week.
Second, you link to multiple banks, the safest-rated, hopefully at least
B+, that you can find in your area. With any luck, at least one of them will be functional when you need to transfer. You also have at least a three month stash of cash to tide you over any exceptionally rough periods. The idea is to minimize your risk in advance, but of course the
scenario will never be entirely risk-free.

When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #753

Top Shelf and so lucidly written! Encore!! Encore!!!

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #754

Vulcanelli,

All of Seychelles advice is good. The last thing you want to do is transfer funds into a bank that is wobbling on the edge, as it may be the last thing. Since wire transfers from td.gov to your bank are without charge, don't transfer more than your bank will let you pull out in currency. The less time your money spends in the bank, the better. Consider it to be a three minute egg.

Also, note that the default of what to do with your money at maturity is to send it back to a bank, so whenever you put in for an auction purchase, be very careful to direct it to C of I upon the maturity. Along with the famous cash in a creative spot, I keep a little in C of I all the time. With 13 week T-Bills so close to zero, it doesn't make much difference except that having your money in actual bills may be marginally more secure.

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #755

Money for nothing and your chicks for free

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #756

Surely a compelling position on why TPTB (1%) will allow the Hyperflationary collapse. I'll go with FOFOA.

fofoa.blogspot.com/2011/04/deflation-or-hyperinflation.html

www.rickackerman.com/2011/04/at-last-a-hyperinflation-argument-that-persuades/

"One of them, debated endlessly, questions whether the Powers That Be would “allow” a hyperinflation to occur, since that would render their financial assets worthless. FOFOA prepares us for his counterintuitive answer by recalling the joke about how, if you want to survive, you don’t actually need to outrun the bear that is chasing you and your friend. This could be said of the Masters of the Universe: They won’t have to outrun hyperinflation — only to outrun the madding hoards who will be as eager as they to unload dollars in exchange for real things."

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #757

I'm going to have to sort out one of my Speedy Gonzalo Demolition posts

The folks fixating on Gold, HI and relative price valuations between fiat and gold simply don't understand how money accrues value.

Anyhow, be sure you go read "Energy-Money Equilibrium: The Value of Money in the Age of Oil" on DD. I got Part I up yesterday, probably will get Part 2 up tomorrow.

www.doomsteaddiner.org/blog/2012/02/28/energy-money-equilibrium-the-value-of-money-in-the-age-of-oil/

RE

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #759

Regarding the danger of a forced extension of maturity of Treasuries as an earlier commenter raised. This is equivalent to a default. That is what all the hoopla is about with the upcoming Greek default triggering CDS's. Some of the Boyz are maintaing that if it is voluntary (as in I make you an offer you can't refuse, Mario), then it is not a CDS "event." However, in relationship to having your savings parked at td.gov, a maturity extension is part of the end game, and there should be quite a bit of warning before that happens. That is why short term is good. You can get out at face value when the posse is coming around the corner and not have to sell into a seething secondary market.

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #760

Speaking of endgames, Kramer's last show?

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #763

  • Nassim
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It is always fun to read what el g has to say. Thank you.

However, I could not help asking myself this time why he was doing this great favour to Mr Bernanke. Treasury Direct reminds me of the corral outside the slaughter-house through which the sheep are made to file for their one-way trip:

"Behavioural Principles of Livestock Handling"
www.grandin.com/references/new.corral.html

qurban4lifesg.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/sheep21.jpg?w=300&h=300

Nothing is simpler than putting limits on withdrawals from Treasury Direct. I mean, they can pin-point an awkward individual and say "not him". It is like handing the executioner the pistol. The mind boggles.

Personally, I have had the misfortune of having been through a bank crisis and having had my account frozen - like everyone else in Iran at that time. By the time I was able to return to reclaim my cash, under a year later, it must have devalued by 80%. As a kid, my dad once had an account frozen on him due to a court-case - most painful. Luckily, not all of it was in that account as he had no income. However, drastic spending cuts had to be made.

I also used to live in an African country where 20 piastres was the pay for one labourer working hard for one day. Last time I was there, it would not pay for a single cigarette.

The fact that they are making it so difficult for Americans to keep their money abroad legally strongly suggests that they want to be able to pick and choose who gets to be able to access his savings - and who is left out in the cold. It is a typical totalitarian move and I can offer plenty of examples of that happening in the past. Do you think the Jews who were lucky to get out of Germany after 1933 were allowed to take their savings with them?

By all means put most of your money in Treasury Direct. However, it would be foolish to not keep at least 10% of it in cash and 10% in physical gold.
Last Edit: 1 year, 2 months ago by Nassim. Reason: pictures

When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #765

Check out this - just WOW! 0.o
agendadocumentary.com/trailer/

It looks like a perfect example of how to divide and conquer the people - play them against each other. Blame the "left" and "Godlessness" and stealth communism, and produce your very own fundamentalist extremists.

The propaganda machine is in full swing.

When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #767

I'd like to echo the SOS request for what would be the Canadian-equivalent to TD for the purposes of buying Canadian treasuries (or Savings Bonds or whatever is recommended). If anyone can provide insight on this, it would be most appreciated.

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #768

Nassim

I agree with everything you say. But just to point out that they can freeze your account in any financial institution such as a bank or a money market just as easily as in td.gov. Td.gov is marginally safer regarding seizure as at least Corzine and Dimon can not personally steal your savings and the treasury has to think twice before screwing with bondholders at the risk of foreign currency flight. As to a minimum of 10% each in bills and PM's, agree with you totally. The trick is finding a safe place for it. Silver is easier to use as currency than gold, but gold is a lot easier to move around.

When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #769

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El G: What's your opinion on using Treasury Direct through a local credit union ?

Thank-you.

When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #780

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Totally agree with this statement "When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner". The problem is that finding a different place to hide on a sinking ship tends to be futile. So finding a different place within the financial system to hide one's wealth seems equally futile. Even the notion that one can live off the saved credits in the tertiary make-believe financial system even after it crashes and defaults on its obligations seems somewhat obtuse.

As I see it we're facing a multifaceted collapse as follows:

1. tertiary economy (finance, services and make-believe) collapses due to internal dynamics;

2. secondary economy (production, transformation and real work) collapses due to energy constraints, resource depletion and failure of the primary economy;

3. primary economy (everything nature provides) collapses due to climate change and ecological damage.

Seems to me that weaving a successful survival path through the labyrinth of existential dangers will require much more than simply rearranging financial investments. Especially when they're just claims on underlying assets which are themselves vanishing.

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #781

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There is also a real possibility - on a human time-scale - of a Carrington Event.

"One-in-eight chance of solar megaflare causing trillions of dollars of damage in next ten years, scientists warn"

www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2108442/One-chance-solar-megaflare-causing-trillions-dollars-damage-years-scientists-warn.html

Clearly, in such a catastrophic event, having direct access to resources (including PM) would make quite a difference.

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #783

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@NZSanctuary, all

That "Agenda" documentary trailer is scary stuff.

A direct rallying call to "The Flag" and the self-evident (or so we are required to presume) "Christian Values" underpinning it.

Wow indeed! - that is exactly what we are ALL up against.

I found the entire thing utterly abhorent . According to its world view, that makes me either a fool or plain evil. I wonder which it will be?

When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #784

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It is not so much the getting locked out part that worries me, it is that they are so short staffed and/or inefficient that it takes them 5+ days to answer the damn phone.

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #787

  • bluebird
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Thanks El G, great topic!

I have my TD account linked with a credit union. no issues.

The issue I have with TD, is that my computer fails to be registered to TD. So every time I sign into TD, I get a temporary password. While this has been doable, it is kinda annoying whether I use IE or Firefox. I wonder how long I can get TD temporary passwords before TD locks me out?

I am thinking with FDIC insured bank accounts or NCUA insured accounts with a credit union, that with the global financial Ponzi implodes, most people will still think their accounts are 'safe'. However, I think there will be limits on the amount of withdrawals. Otherwise, if not allowed any of their money, the angry people will go after the banksters with pitchforks, ropes, guns, and tear down the banks.

We will be told the limits are just temporary until the crisis is resolved.
Last Edit: 1 year, 2 months ago by bluebird. Reason: rephrase for clearer reading

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #819

Riesterm

I recommend that one has three banks, if possible, tied into td.gov, and one of them being a credit union would be excellent.

Burgundy,

I agree with you in principle. But the purpose of this blog site is to increase your odds of making it to the next change. And holding on to your savings for an extra year or two over having them expropriated would probably increase your odds. The timing of the collapse is not written in stone. I can't believe that TPTB have kicked the can down the road for 3.5 years and counting. Besides, everyone's milage will vary. A strapping young lad with a BA and living in Dad's basement with a $100k student loan should have a different strategy than a 65 year old buzzard whose family thinks he's a whack job.

Bluebird

I'll clean my floor but I don't do Windows. But it sounds to me that your browsers are set to reject the cookies that td.gov is planting on your hard drive so their computers will recognize it. I would go into the browser settings and "liberalize" the accept cookie preference or at least see how it is set. If by chance you have a Mac running something under the new Lion, I could give you more details. Td.gov is geared to run on computer interaction, and it does appear that they are understaffed with human support, so one should take as much care as possible to make your computer relations smooth. Reports back to me do appear that once you actually get a human there, they are friendly and competent.
Last Edit: 1 year, 2 months ago by el gallinazo.

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #825

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If it all comes crashing down I can always live in my truck, stand on a corner with my guitar with a tip jar beside me and sing and play for my dinner. Come to think of it, this is what I've always wanted to do anyway. Ah... the simple life.

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #826

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Doesn't appear to me that TD or any bank or institution would be safe if we got into desperate times. Who would want to put themselves in a position where they couldn't have access to their money or even allow the chance of it happening? TD, Fed Reserve banks and the TBTFs are all easily accessible by the government and can be shut down or controlled in the blink of an eye. If anything, a small private local bank would be best BUT I wouldn't even trust that.

I guess desperate times would require desperate measures no matter how inconvenient those measures might be for us.

Maybe the best idea would be to do something such as... starting now, slowly but surely get 90-95% of your cash out of the banks (obviously in $100 bills), just leaving enough and continuing to keep just enough in to pay bills and do business. (You can deposit some cash back in whenever you need more money to write a big check or pay off a credit card or some such.) Take all of your cash and your silver and gold and put it into one of those military stash containers that are waterproof, crushproof, etc. and find a very safe place to bury and/or hide it. Return to it on occasion when you need to replenish your cash. Like El G, move to some beautiful moderate climate environment like Mexico or Costa RIca or Belize and live well but inexpensively. Come back into the US whenever necessary to get your passport stamped, visit friends and family, etc. and then head back to your paradise.

Find an income source in Mexico, or wherever you go, that will minimally give you enough income to handle your living expenses (lessening the amount of times you'll need to go to your cash stash). Would be best if it was cash income off the books. Or you could even have an internet business.

If you set up a formal business in this country and had a bank account you might be able to apply for and get citizenship. Then, if it ever becomes necessary, you'll have the choice to renounce your US citizenship, turn in your US passport, and be free of US taxes and intervention for the rest of your life. If the US econ completely collapsed and became the welfare-war monger-police state that we all fear, who would want to live here anyway.

When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #834

Great article. Nice to see you're contributing to the new site el g.

As for the duration of said deflation, I find even the deflationists such as yourself tend to lean towards the notion of a shorter term period of deflation, as devastating as it might be, rather than a longer term one. My impression is that Nicole Foss has warned the deflation could be devastating in both scale AND duration--it might last much longer than we currently anticipate, like a decade or more. And so when I read your own predictions, which tend towards a relatively short deflationary window, I can't help wondering if even the best deflationists are being tempered by the hyper-inflationists' arguments.

In contrast, I feel that the current unwind is much slower than anyone could have expected, including TAE. Which only leads me to believe that the entrenched powers will draw things out as long as possible, and I would be inclined to believe that will include a long deflation too.
Last Edit: 1 year, 2 months ago by skipbreakfast.

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #845

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Hm, I tried signing into TD with my AOL browser. And it worked! I'm glad that worked, but what does that say about AOL.

Now for a cash story...
My spouse went to pay a couple bills with cash. One was to an insurance company, the other to a department store. Each bill was appx $500.

Neither company would accept the cash. Spouse was getting very irritated. The department store ended up calling their corporate office and finally decided to allow the cash payment.

The insurance company wanted a check. He did not have any checks with him, but they would allow payment to be made with a credit card. So that was resolved.

As far as stashing cash in the 'Bank of Sealy', I have some extra 20s, a few 50s, even fewer hundreds. I had heard the lower the denomination, the better. But after the ordeal with paying bills with cash, I think next time to get money order first.

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #855

Haven't got one for several years, but ironically enough, Postal Money Orders are a great way to convert your disreputable cash into a responsible looking document. They are much cheaper than at a bank, and the PO doesn't even take your name. Just money on the barrelhead. Hope that hasn't changed. Since your name does appear on the order itself, and they eventually wind up back somewhere in the PO system eventually, guess they could trace them to you if they really put their minds to it. But not to worry. We'll all have RFID chips implanted in our nostrils shortly.

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #856

Whether the End Game is Deflation or Hyperinflation, in the developed countries with a digital money infrastructure already in place, at some indeterminate point in the future CASH will not be acceptable payment form.

Far as TPTB go are concerned, Cash is nearly as bad as Barter, its very difficult to trace, particularly old bills that have been floating around in the system a long time. Anyone having large Stashes of Cash can be assumed by TPTB to have acquired it "illegally". Electronic Money is much better, it can always be traced, all the Bits are Tagged and you have a complete record always of every transaction ever made with a given bit from its date of issuance onward, even if it was just to buy a stick of bubble gum.

Consider the current means of Food Distribution through the SNAP Card system. The Card is tagged with your Name, and you have to show Goobermint ID (drivers license usually) in order to use it to buy Food. You can't hand over some Food Stamps to somebody else for say a bottle of Moonshine and then the Moonshiner could use the stamps to buy some Potatoes to make more Booze. You would have to buy the Potatoes yourself and hand the sack over to the Moonshiner to get your bottle of Vodka.

If/when we get a Full On crash, even a deflationary one, its fairly likely Da Goobermint will Decertify all FRNs, and give you a Window of time (maybe a month) to turn in all your FRNs and then be issued out Digicredits for this Cash. From then on, the only "legitimate" transactions you could ever make would be with the new DigiDollars. Probably they would be recorded in your ATT Cell Phone Account, and whenever making a transaction even with another Private Seller of something, you would have to use your Iphone to transfer the Money from your account to his, with all the Taxes automatically taken out.

You don't really NEED the Chip Implants here, this conversion could be done virtually instantaneously now since everyone carries a cell phone. If you chose NOT to carry a Cell Phone, you simply could not buy anything, because there is no "Paper" form of currency that is accepted anymore by Da Goobermint. Its not good to pay Bills already, once TSHTF completely, its unlikely you could use it to buy anything at all.

When the monetary system crash works its way inward to collapsing the dollar, there will likely be a very limited amount of time where current FRNs will work to buy anything at all. You'll have to use that window to convert into Hard Goods as best you can at that time, but really everyone will be doing that and shelves will empty pretty fast.

Meanwhile though, they remain the most fungible form of money available on a global level. Gold has limited utility, you cannot go to Walmart and buy out their stock of 50 lb bags of rice with an American Eagle. First you have to go to a coin dealer and get him to fork over whatever it is Gold is trading at on that day, less his vigorish, then go over to Walmart to buy the 50 lb bags of rice. In a SHTF scenario, by the time you complete the first trasaction of seling the Gold Coin and then driving over to Walmart, the shelves would already be emptied.

You have to keep your wits about you all the time here, on practically a daily basis. Really, its a possibility on any given day that the POTUS would declare a Bank Holiday, and if you don't divest of your cash in the Bank of Sealy on that DAY before everybody else runs out trying to load up on Preps, it won't buy jack squat, because there won't be anything left to buy.

The fact we now have an electronic system of commerce already in place makes this economic colapse quite a bit different than the one experienced leading into the Great Depression. There was no readily available substitute for the Paper Dollars then. There is now, and one can be pretty sure TPTB will take the opportunity here to get rid of Cash completely.

Of course, the whole bizness will cause such Havoc that one cannot expect the system to hold up too long. Local communities will have to reorganize along Barter lines and produce their own local currencies to do local resource distribution, if a monetary based economy is chosen by said community. I hope we will not go down this route up here, I'd rather see us try a Potlatch economy again. Only time will tell how that works itself out.

RE
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Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #858

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I expect that eventually TPTB will take down the Internets and accessibility to online banking and ATM cards. No cash, no digi-cards, ugh. I suppose by then I shouldn't worry, because I probably wouldn't have survived anyway.

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #862

Reverse Engineer,

Welcome to the exalted club of "conspiracy factists" here I find your comments very valuable and thought stimulating.

I listened to a radio interview with the Gambles yesterday, creators of the very amazing film, Thrive. After hearing them interviewed yesterday, I immediately paid my 5 bucks to lease it, and was happy at the technical quality of the transmission as I have a very narrow broadband where I live, nominal 1 Mbps. They refer to TPTB as TPTSB, the powers that shouldn't be. I think I will adopt this in the future.

What we might give some thought to is that if TPTSB declare a "bank holiday," then what is all that debit card money going to debit. They would be putting all their nuts, assuming they have any, in the functioning of the electronic system. Even a minor Carrington event would take down the monetary system or a single, strategically placed nuclear explosion in the ionosphere.

Also, only the Starbuck yuppies and the Amalgamated Union of Nerds with their handheld iGadgets are really ready to go cashless. The heat hasn't been under the lobster pot long enough to get the teeming millions to go along without resistance.

And then we should give some thought to exactly how the recall of currency will go down. While other governments have pulled this shit, they have replaced the currency with a new paper currency, and the excuse is always that their political antecedents have allowed the base unit to reach such a small value that they need a new currency that divides it by a 100 or a 1000 (or perhaps 10 to the 8th Are enough Merikans that brain dead or would this be the kick off to an even more radicalized resistance movement? Turning in your sweat and blood paper for electrons might not go down that easily. Inquiring minds would like to know.

BTW, bartering your JPMC acquired potatos (I prefer the Dan Quayle spelling) for vodka with your local bootlegger would be a nifty idea. Keep the wheels of industry spinning.

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #868

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Reverse Engineer,

I have no doubt that the those in charge would love to move all financial transactions - even the most trivial - to mobile/cell phones. It has been largely achieved in Japan, BTW.

However, as is usual with technocopic solutions, it is quite easy to waylay them. How exactly can they stop people from sabotaging local cell phone towers. I mean, if one cannot get food to eat, why should anyone else?

As soon as local towers are damaged, no one will be able to carry out any financial transaction legally. People will be forced to either barter or use gold/silver or revert to nominally worthless FRN's
Attachments:

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #870

el gallinazo wrote:
Reverse Engineer,

Welcome to the exalted club of "conspiracy factists" here I find your comments very valuable and thought stimulating.


Thanks EG. Actually I'm "Conspiracy Theory Lite" compared to some of my fellow Diners. We made one of our Topic areas for this area in particular Have you stopped by the Diner yet? Brand Spanking new and pretty quiet still, but hopefully things will perk up with some good theorizing.

www.doomsteaddiner.org


What we might give some thought to is that if TPTSB declare a "bank holiday," then what is all that debit card money going to debit. They would be putting all their nuts, assuming they have any, in the functioning of the electronic system. Even a minor Carrington event would take down the monetary system or a single, strategically placed nuclear explosion in the ionosphere.


No, all the information would not be lost in an EMP. Its all backed up in deep underground computers encased in a large Faraday Cage in Area 51 However, the network itself would certainly be fried along with everybody's cell phone, so rebooting after this would take some time. Until the network was rebooted, you would probably have to go to a Bank where the manager would take your name along with others and send off a Snail Mail message via Pony Express to the regional office of Da Fed, which would have a paper file of the accounts listed in the Secure Computers in the Underground Bunker. Your local Bank affiliate would get a return Post and he would start Ledger for your account, and temporarily you would be issued Paper Notes of a limited duration to use in local commerce, until the network could be rebooted.

Also, only the Starbuck yuppies and the Amalgamated Union of Nerds with their handheld iGadgets are really ready to go cashless. The heat hasn't been under the lobster pot long enough to get the teeming millions to go along without resistance.


Not true, the vast majority of people in the FSofA already go cashless operating this way using Plastic Debit and Credit cards. This is the same system, you just don't have your own end terminal, the stores have them. As mentioned in the post I replied to, you often cannot even use Cash to pay some bills.

And then we should give some thought to exactly how the recall of currency will go down. While other governments have pulled this shit, they have replaced the currency with a new paper currency, and the excuse is always that their political antecedents have allowed the base unit to reach such a small value that they need a new currency that divides it by a 100 or a 1000 (or perhaps 10 to the 8th Are enough Merikans that brain dead or would this be the kick off to an even more radicalized resistance movement? Turning in your sweat and blood paper for electrons might not go down that easily. Inquiring minds would like to know.


I lived in Brazil in the 60s, during which period the Cruzeiro was replaced by the Cruzado, then after that I think was the New Cruzeiro followed eventually by the Real. Zeros were lopped off in each iteration of this monetary farce. It of course led to a lot of political instability, but mostly the average person just lives with it, relatively powerless to do much about it. With all the Guns in the FSofA, it could be more radical here than there, but so far the imagined Revolution of Gun toting Rednecks and Tea Baggers has not yet occurred, so I'll believe it when I see it.

BTW, bartering your JPMC acquired potatos (I prefer the Dan Quayle spelling) for vodka with your local bootlegger would be a nifty idea. Keep the wheels of industry spinning.


My Grandpa was a Bootlegger in Brooklyn during the Great Depression. He did very well Left a lot of Booze Bucks behind. A dangerous bizness to be in back then, probably more dangerous in the Depressin to come, but still one off the most durable enterprises you can engage in to survive, as long as you can dodge the bullets.

RE
www.doomsteaddiner.org

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #875

Nassim wrote:
Reverse Engineer,

However, as is usual with technocopic solutions, it is quite easy to waylay them. How exactly can they stop people from sabotaging local cell phone towers. I mean, if one cannot get food to eat, why should anyone else?

As soon as local towers are damaged, no one will be able to carry out any financial transaction legally. People will be forced to either barter or use gold/silver or revert to nominally worthless FRN's


The sabotaging of Conduit infrastructure by Have Nots is already occuring in places like Egypt. That is what all those Gas Pipeline explosions are about.

If people have ZERO dollars in their Cell Phone Accounts, then they would stop carrying them around and you would not be able to track them via GPS. This sytem only works as long as you trickle out enough Dole Money for people to survive. A monthly allotment just enough for minimum food and energy requirements. As long as people get this much, they won't en masse sabotage the Cell towers, because they remain dependent on the system for their daily bread.

Really, the fact we have 47M people currently getting a Food Allotment on their JPMC SNAP card is the reason the FSofA is not yet Egypt or Greece. If we really had 47M people unable to get the subsistence basics of life, they really would have nothing left to lose and we would see a lot more violence.

The system is overall limited in its utility, it can only persist for as long as TPTB can keep the electric grid up and running everywhere to power all the routers and keep everybody's cell phone charged. I don;t think the system can last very long, but I also think it is something that will be attempted. As you mention, in Japan its already up and running.

The substitution of Gold or Silver really is just a Barter Economy. If its a Coin, whatever face value is stamped on it is meaningless, its only value is in whether somebody who has some food will take the gold or silver in return for that food. If that person has a large surplus of food, he might take the gold or silver for it, but really not enough people in any community have much Gold or Silver to start an economy rolling this way. What exactly would there be available for the person who collects up Gold and Silver to buy with it in this economy?

On the homepage of my Yahoo Group I kept the following quote from Revelation:

Revelation 18:11-13 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more: 12The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble, 13And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.


In a monetary collapse of this magnitude, it ALL goes worthless, even the Gold and Silver, even the Flour and Wheat, even the Souls of Men. Nothing has meaning in terms of monetary value. Its a systemic collapse of a civilization which is held together by the use of money in trade. Its happenned before, it happenned in Babylon and it happenned in Rome. Its happening again now.

RE
www.doomsteaddiner.org
Last Edit: 1 year, 2 months ago by Reverse Engineer.

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #884

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<< The sabotaging of Conduit infrastructure by Have Nots is already occuring in places like Egypt. That is what all those Gas Pipeline explosions are about.>>

That is an interesting example. Essentially, Egypt has limited gas. The Egyptian PTB's have resorted to two tactics to get that gas into cash/gold in Switzerland.

1- They opened cement factories - using almost free gas as fuel. Egypt has unlimited supplies of limestone and clay. This is then exported by those paying almost nothing for the fuel and much of the money disappears abroad.

2- Almost free gas is exported to Israel and Jordan. The Israelis and Jordanian pay a very cheap price which is nevertheless largely kept abroad and almost nothing reaches the Egyptian Treasury.

The destruction of the gas pipe-line is one way of getting at TPTB of Egypt. Easy and effective.

PS

Can someone please tell me how to shade in grey quotations by others?
Last Edit: 1 year, 2 months ago by Nassim.

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #885

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Prediction and supposition are a waste of time. No one knows what is going to happen and when it is going to happen.

Gold, silver, digital money, new currency, cell phones and on and on and on. What a bunch of drivel.

Real wealth is water, food, shelter, clothing, tools, energy and land. That is all there is to it. This is the common denominator... the basic datum. Figure out your strategy based on this basic datum.
Last Edit: 1 year, 2 months ago by alfbell. Reason: typo

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #887

Nassim wrote:


Can someone please tell me how to shade in grey quotations by others?


If you are quoting somebody from the thread itself, you just hit the "quote" button.

If you are quoting from somewhere else you are pasting in, surround the text with the words "quote" and "/quote" in square brackets. This forum accepts most BBcode so far as I have experimented with it anyhow.

On that topic, Ashvin are you running this forum on SMF software? Will it accept SMF codes natively?

RE
The following user(s) said Thank You: Nassim

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #888

alfbell wrote:
Prediction and supposition are a waste of time. No one knows what is going to happen and when it is going to happen.

Gold, silver, digital money, new currency, cell phones and on and on and on. What a bunch of drivel.

Real wealth is water, food, shelter, clothing, tools, energy and land. That is all there is to it. This is the common denominator... the basic datum. Figure out your strategy based on this basic datum.


You forget Friends and Community in your list of Basic Datum as far as tallying up your real wealth is concerned.

I disagree however that specualting on how the collapse will play itself out on the monetary end is either "drivel" or a "waste of time". The fact is, that for a while at least the monetary system will remain the main method people have for acquiring water, food, shelter et al. Part of Prepping Up is being aware of the possible ways the system might be manipulated or morphed here. Too many people labor under the false assumption that having a pile of Gold in the Basement Safe or a mattress stuffed full of FRNs will provide a measure of monetary security. Other people labor under the false assumption that by living on a subsistence farm (aka "doomstead") they will be able to both produce a perpetual food supply and protect and defend it from both the State and from destitute people (aka "zombies").

In actuality, for the most part you are going to have to find means and methods of surviving inside what looks to be evovlving as an increasingly Fascist State here on the NA continent, thus the reason I label it the "FSofA", or Fascist States of Amerika.

RE
www.doomsteaddiner.org
Last Edit: 1 year, 2 months ago by Reverse Engineer.

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #903

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Reverse Engineer said "Part of Prepping Up is being aware of the possible ways the system might be manipulated or morphed here."

Indeed. No one knows exactly how anything will be occurring. So I've been trying to do a bit of prepping in several areas, and hope for the best.

But to remind everyone, Nature will always bat last. My daughter and family recently survived a tornado in SW Ohio. Luckily, she and her husband and pets are fine, her house is fine, but the tornado flattened her barn and everything in it...generator, lawnmower, tools, etc. She is on the third day without electric as the tornado took out all the poles and wires in her area. Definitely many lessons to be learned.

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #950

RE - I bookmarked your link and will take it around the block when I have time. Thanks.

The United States is in very rapid transition from soft to hard fascism. Though Stalin's Soviet Union was not technically fascist due to a lack of corporate superstructure, it certainly was totalitarian, and most lessons between the two are interchangeable. Probably the greatest threat to survival via doomstead preparation is the lesson of the Kulaks in Russia and Ukraine (formerly the Ukraine) One reason that you cannot divorce a survival strategy from a political, big picture understanding.

RE, would you consider the upcoming global economic collapse as a phase of the long term TPTSB strategy, or would you regard it as a very serious miscalculation? I really cannot figure that one out with any certainty, but not from lack of trying. The possible dissolution of the EU would be strong evidence for the latter opinion, as Master of the Universe David Rockefeller has made it quite clear that the consolidation of pseudo sovereign government into a small global number, perhaps four, is a necessary stepping stone to a one world government run by enlightened, technocratic bankers. The recent installation of this system into Greece and Italy certainly indicates a pathway for this possible game plan. Eventually, of course, they will have to use NATO thugs to reinforce it against populist revolution. The upcoming chaos in Europe may very well lead to the consolidation of power in classical Naomi Klein fashion - total jackbooted state. OTOH, they may have truly miscalculated and their plans may fall apart, even in the short term, through centrifugal forces, even prior to PO kicking in hard.

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #952

el gallinazo wrote:
RE, would you consider the upcoming global economic collapse as a phase of the long term TPTSB strategy, or would you regard it as a very serious miscalculation? I really cannot figure that one out with any certainty, but not from lack of trying.


Always a source of endless speculation in the Conspiracy Theory crowd MIne isn't the most popular viewpoint on this question.

I believe the consequences of exponential growth have been well known by the Illuminati going well back into time, predating Malthus for sure. I also am quite sure Isaac Newton when he was Master of the Mint back in 1692 new precisely what the consequences were of the type of monetary system the BoE was engineering up. Anyhow, over the centruies here there is no doubt that the monetary system has been engineered up to keep a very small group of people in perpetual power.

The discoveries of the Enlightenment enabled the accessing of large amounts of thermodynamic energy, which thus propelled our friends the Illuminati to even higher pinnacles of power. They also however have known for a long time (going back at least to Hubbert but probably back further than that) that fossil fuel resource was limited and would eventually run out on them. So for a long time they engaged in seeking out "ultimate power" in the form of Nuclear Energy, particularly Fusion power. Billions if not Trillions have been spent over the last 40 years (that when the numers meant something before the printing spree), I was reading about coming Fusion Reactors in Popular Science when I was a boy.

Sadly here, TIMES UP, the Buzzer has gone off and Ultimate Power has not arrived here. What our Illuminati friends are doing here is rear guard action, they are trying to escape with what wealth they collected up and get out from under a collapsing Tower of Babel.

Far as a "Plan" goes, I think they think they have Plans, but for the most part I don't think those plans will work all that long. I've looked at this problem up down and sideways and once the Conduits fail in earnest you get a One to the Many devolution. The center will not hold.

Anyhow, my good friend Peter who is collaborating with me on DD doesn't agree with me on this, he is pretty sure the Illuminati have this well planned and figured all the way down the line. He makes a pretty good case for it also, and e have pursued some EXTREMELY long debates with each other on how this plays out. Eventually I'll try to get some of those debates up on DD, they are very entertaining

In any event, I definitely would not call this one a "Phase" like the Great Depression or even the French Revolution. Those events happenned on the upswing while the Illuminati were still accumulating greater power and greater wealth. Now we are on the downslope, and its all going to come apart, quite rapidly relatively speaking. I don't think the Illuminati can control the collapse, and I don't think most of what is called wealth will be worth a hill of beans here pretty soon. For Rome it came apart at the seams when the monetary system collapsed. When the money doesn't work to pay the Soldiers, you cannot Buy Loyalty anymore and the Elite are no longer Elite. That is when you will see quite a few people strung up by their Gonads with their Chestnuts Roasting over an Open Fire.

RE
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Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #956

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RE: yes, I agree about friends and community added to the list of stable datums. (Might I add being in a temperate climate area... thus not needing much energy for heat or A/C, and also having the benefit of a long growing season.)

El G: please tell the lesson of the Kulaks in Russia.

I posted my opinion earlier on this thread regarding things being upside down and backwards in our society (ie. what the status quo thinks and believes, and are programmed to think and believe, is usually the opposite of what is true) and I think this also applies to the above speculation about the Illuminati/NWO/TPTB. I believe Hollywood pushes this false notion forward by always having the villian or bad guy as the very wealthy, "together", organized individual and the hero is always an unkempt, bungling guy with marital or relationship problems, always in trouble with his boss or the authorities due to his irresponsibility, etc.

Wouldn't you say that that is again another opposite? I believe people or groups that are on an evil bent, or pushing destructive intentions and purposes forward, will always wind up derailing and crashing. The more evil one commits the more "stupid" they become. If there are indeed people who want to make debt slaves of the masses and control them via a police state, I believe they are going against humanity and its urge to survive and thrive and it can only blow up in their faces. They are on this planet too, right? What they are doing is analagous to drilling a hole in the bottom of a boat and gleefully anticipating how everyone is now going to drown. Yet, they have forgotten one very important datum... they are on the boat too!

I think the crash of the Eurozone is one of their faux pas. And they'll be many more to come as they continue to work at making a mess of everything.

Crime and evil does not pay in the long run, eh?

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #958

alfbell wrote:
RE: yes, I agree about friends and community added to the list of stable datums. (Might I add being in a temperate climate area... thus not needing much energy for heat or A/C, and also having the benefit of a long growing season.)


Disagreed. The problem with Temperate climates is everybody wants to live there. Besides that there are food preservation issues to deal with.

You want to be in the coldest possible climate Homo Sapiens can tolerate. Basically sub Arctic conditions. Properly insulated with clothing, you don't need Heat really down to 50 Below. Inuit have been doing this for 1000s of years. The cold climate provides you instant Food Preservation about 8 months of the year, the whole world is a Refrigerator. If you are sedentary, its also quite possible to build an Icehouse that will last all summer through to the first snowfalls.

A short growing season is compensated for by very long growing days in the Summer. Alaska farms are actually quite productive, and the peculiarities of the light distribution make it possible to grow some mammoth veggies.



Besides the veggies, there remains up here the greates fisherie still alive in the world Oceans



Finally, you just can't beat Alaska for Population Density. At 1.24 Homo Sapiens per square mile, its one of the least populated places on the face of the Earth. Only some parts of Siberia and Antarctica and various Deserts come in lower than that.

So forget the Middle Latitudes. You just gotta learn to love the cold. BE THE COLD!



RE
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Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #959

  • Nassim
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El G: please tell the lesson of the Kulaks in Russia.


alfbell,

I think El G is asleep. If you don't mind, I will try to answer that one.

A Kulak was essentially a person, in the Soviet Union, who grew his own food and sold the surplus in the market or to traders who took it to the cities. Some were wealthy and owned lots of land, but the vast majority were not much more than doomsteaders. Eventually, anyone who could store food was considered a Kulak.

The Russian Revolution was largely driven by the urban population. The people in the countryside were much more religious and conservative (still true today). Due to the dislocation of the Revolution and the civil war (Reds versus Whites), the people in the cities got hungry and the communists blamed it all on the Kulaks - for hoarding food. The communists raided the country-side and took everything they could find and sent the males to concentration camps in Siberia - leaving their families behind to starve. In Russia, peasants stored food for the winter underground (still true today). Tens of millions starved - Solzhenitsyn estimated 60 million. Of course, the communists claimed it was under one million. Vast areas of the most productive agricultural land of Russia, Ukraine and Belorussia were almost depopulated. The communists used the unproductive peasants - who wanted the land of the more productive ones - to help in this carnage.

Nikita_Khrushchev, the guy who negociated with Kennedy, was the Kommissar for the Ukraine. He was Ukrainian, ugly and from an impoverished urban family. He must have been responsible for perhaps 20 million deaths in Ukraine. I hope you get the drift of what El G was getting at.

Suggested reading: Gulag archipelago (by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn)

Who was it who said that
Crime and evil does not pay in the long run, eh?
?

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #961

  • ashvin
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Nassim,

Here is a very interesting article in that regard:

The Last Famine

Sharman Apt Russell, in her survey of our primordial craving, Hunger: An Unnatural History, quotes a 4,000-year-old inscription on the tomb of an Egyptian noble: "All of Upper Egypt was dying of hunger to such a degree that everyone had come to eating his children." Two-thirds of Italy, she reminds us, starved to death during the black plagues of the 14th century. Five-hundred years later, a microscopic potato fungus scythed down a million Irishmen (and women and children) and sent at least a million more into famished exodus. And proving once again that we humans are perhaps the worst crop of pestilence of all, she cites the 2 million to 3 million Ukrainians methodically starved to death by Stalin's forced collectivization. A grim coda: The deadliest famine recorded -- ever -- was man-made and happened within living memory: The Great Leap Forward, Mao's rush to industrialize the countryside, killed tens of millions of Chinese between 1958 and 1962. "Hunger," Russell writes, "is as big as history."


Regarding corporatist debt slavery + growing police state:

www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/mar/02/police-privatisation-security-firms-crime

www.opednews.com/populum/linkframe.php?linkid=146528

Among the central provisions of H.R. 347 is a section that would make it a criminal offense to “enter or remain in” an area designated as “restricted.”

The bill defines the areas that qualify as “restricted” in extremely vague and broad terms. Restricted areas can include “a building or grounds where the President or other person protected by the Secret Service is or will be temporarily visiting” and “a building or grounds so restricted in conjunction with an event designated as a special event of national significance.”

The Secret Service provides bodyguards not just to the US president, but to a broad layer of top figures in the political establishment, including presidential candidates and foreign dignitaries.

Even more sinister is the provision regarding events of “national significance.” What circumstances constitute events of “national significance” is left to the unbridled discretion of the Department of Homeland Security. The occasion for virtually any large protest could be designated by the Department of Homeland Security as an event of “national significance,” making any demonstrations in the vicinity illegal.


(all of the above courtesy of VK)
Last Edit: 1 year, 2 months ago by ashvin.

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #966

  • alfbell
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Sorry RE. You may be correct yet I can't abide cold weather. I live at 5,300 feet now in the mountains of SoCal. It is beautiful but my body type doesn't do well with cold weather and snow. Makes me very uncomfortable and irritable and non-productive. (Altho a mixture of Irish/English/Italian, my predominant body characteristic is Mediterranean type). I'm unhappy now in 20 degree weather with thermal base layers, pile and down. Couldn't imagine living in and around zero weather. Looking forward to getting back down to the flatlands and/or desert for warmer living.

I know people live longer in the cold regions. And the cold mountains have always been the place where people seem to hunker down and survive or avoid predators, attacks, etc.

If it wasn't for the peak oil scene and the cost of oil skyrocketing over the next few decades my solution would be a motor home (mobility, flexibility, follow economic and educational opportunities, escape catastrophes, follow the sun and warm weather, etc.)

If there really was a way to have an engine that ran on hydrogen/water or some other inexpensive fuel the motor home would be my survival solution.

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #969

alfbell wrote:

If it wasn't for the peak oil scene and the cost of oil skyrocketing over the next few decades my solution would be a motor home (mobility, flexibility, follow economic and educational opportunities, escape catastrophes, follow the sun and warm weather, etc.)


I call RVs and Sailboats "Bugout Machines", and I have one of each I write quite often about how you plan for diferent types of Bugouts using such tools depending on circumstances. I'll probably drop one of them in as a Feature Article on the Diner in the next week or so.

Far as being intolerant of cold weather, yes lots of people are which makes it a bit easier for folks like me who cannot stand heat. Unless I am out in the Bush I don't generally go nuts suiting up unless we get the 30 below stuff. Zero is very comfortable for me in typical winter gear if I am not outside for mre than an hour or so. Full time outdoors, you gotta Suit Up.



BTW, the Iditarod got going this Weekend. I'll update you all periodically on the Last Great Race on Earth

Iditarod
..Neff leads a pack of top Iditarod racers out of the Alaska Range
Mike Campbell | Mar 05, 2012

Amid snowfall, the top dozen mushers in the Iditarod Trail Sled Dog Race yanked their snow hooks Monday afternoon and began a steep 40-mile descent to Rohn River.

Yukon Quest champion Hugh Neff was the first to leave Rainy Pass at 2:58 p.m. Within an hour, nine racers had given chase. They included:

• Ray Redington Jr. of Wasilla, the early race leader, who was 11 minutes back.

• Lance Mackey of Fairbanks, the four-time champion looking to tie aging Rick Swenson as the winningest Iditarod musher of all time.

• Aliy Zirkle of Two Rivers, the former Yukon Quest champion who's behind a powerful dog team that finished seconds behind Neff at last month's Quest.

• John Baker of Kotzebue, the defending Iditarod champion and race record holder.

• Rick Swenson of Two Rivers, the most decorated musher in Iditarod history who despite his age of 61 is hanging closer to the front that he often does.

• Jeff King of Denali Park, another four-time champion returning to the Iditarod after ending his brief retirement.

Perhaps the only surprise among the front-runners was Kelley Griffin, the 52-year-old veteran from Wasilla. Even though she's finished three Iditarods and a number of Quests, she has never contended for victory. She was the first woman to finish the Quest and the Iditarod in the same year, a feat she accomplished in 2008. Last year, she finished fifth in the Quest and 26th in the Iditarod, both personal bests.

Both Zirkle and Mackey are driving dog teams fresh off a successful 1,000-mile run in the Yukon Quest International Sled Dog Race last month. Some of the dogs in Zirkle’s team were in husband Allen Moore’s team that finished second to Hugh Neff by less than a minute in that race. Mackey finished third and proclaimed himself happy with how his crew of young dogs performed.

For many contenders, the goal of the first couple of days on the trail is to stay in contention without stressing the dog team with a maddening early pace.

“A lot of people will try to race out to the front and get to the front of the pack,” young Rohn Buser, the Kuskokwim 300 champion, said on Sunday to Iditarod Insider at the race start in Willow.

“But you've got to be careful not to go out too fast. It’s more important to set a good pace for your team, something your team can maintain. You’ve just got to keep them relaxed and don't blow them up on the first day so on Day 5 you don’t say, 'Oh man, I went down the river too fast.’”


RE
www.doomsteaddiner.org
Last Edit: 1 year, 2 months ago by Reverse Engineer.

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #973

  • alfbell
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Reverse: Yes, a boat could be the best bugout vehicle for survival. Never really thought about that. You've got me thinking now. (The thing about owning a home or farm is that the gubmint knows where you are and still controls you through property taxes, and who knows what other taxes they'll devise for homeowners.) A boat (like an RV) is a home that can move around (fabian) and doesn't have property taxes. Also very key... no major worries about fuel if it is a sailboat.

Unfortunately, I know nothing about sailing and have no experience (I'm a land-lubber). A decent ocean going vessel could take you along the US, Canadian, Alaskan, Mexican, Central American coastlines, down to the Caribbean, etc. There would be all sorts of small ports, marinas, coves, etc. where one could locate, hide, hunker down, etc.

If I could have a large enough freezer to keep meat and also some sort of garden (hydroponic?) on board I could go for long periods without needing to come in for supplies. Guess could have solar energy too?

I'm age 60 and in good physical shape. So is the wife. If I went to the right school or teacher... how long would it take me to learn to sail in order to operate a decent size 60-70 ft schooner, or whatever the appropriate type of boat would be for this application? I know one key thing to learn is everything about weather conditions and navigation.

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #974

  • alfbell
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Hey folks... talking about speculation as to how things will go in the future due to economic crash and America going Fascist... here is some historical data that could shed more light on the subject.

Niall Ferguson's newest book, "Civilization: The West and the Rest". He states that based on history there isn't a slow gradual decline when an empire collapses (he explains this re: Rome, Ming Dynasty, etc.). It is fast. There is an exponential climb followed by falling off a cliff. This occurs in a generation or a few decades, even one decade (witness Russia, witness Egypt, Libya, etc.). He states that those thinking they have a lot of time to prepare and get their act together might have a big surprise.

Gulp!

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #979

alfbell wrote:
Reverse: Yes, a boat could be the best bugout vehicle for survival. Never really thought about that. You've got me thinking now. (The thing about owning a home or farm is that the gubmint knows where you are and still controls you through property taxes, and who knows what other taxes they'll devise for homeowners.) A boat (like an RV) is a home that can move around (fabian) and doesn't have property taxes. Also very key... no major worries about fuel if it is a sailboat.

Unfortunately, I know nothing about sailing and have no experience (I'm a land-lubber). A decent ocean going vessel could take you along the US, Canadian, Alaskan, Mexican, Central American coastlines, down to the Caribbean, etc. There would be all sorts of small ports, marinas, coves, etc. where one could locate, hide, hunker down, etc.

If I could have a large enough freezer to keep meat and also some sort of garden (hydroponic?) on board I could go for long periods without needing to come in for supplies. Guess could have solar energy too?

I'm age 60 and in good physical shape. So is the wife. If I went to the right school or teacher... how long would it take me to learn to sail in order to operate a decent size 60-70 ft schooner, or whatever the appropriate type of boat would be for this application? I know one key thing to learn is everything about weather conditions and navigation.


Dmitri Orlov, one of the most well read of early Doomers lives on a Sailboat in Boston. He has written a decent amount about his experience with "Sailsteading". Go to Cluborlov.com and read up there to get the most positive spin on this methodology.

By NO MEANS is a 60' boat necessary or even advisable here. Boats of this size have very big and expensive sails, and until the whole biz does go to hell in a handbasket are pretty expensive to maintain at any Marina. Bigger the Boat, bigger the monthly fees. For most purposes, boats in the 35-40" range are quite livable. Then you have choices to make as far as monohulls and multihulls are concerned. Multihulls of the Catamaran variety are more spacious and roomy, and they are also faster and point up better into the wind than most monohull keelboats. However, unless you are a very competent Blue Water sailor, I would never take a multihull far off the coast. They can pitchpole or roll in really big seas, and they do not self right as a monohull does.

My choice is very small boat, a 28' Ian Farier designed floding Trimaran that is trailerable. I have no marina fees. It has very little living space, its just a Bugout Machine for me that can get me from here to Tristan da Cunha, Edinburgh of the Seven Seas (generally considered the most remote Island on Earth) if need be, though that would be one mighty scary undertaking in this craft. My intention if I ever need to use it for REAL is to coastal sail it into the fjords of British Columbia. I have a water maker, solar panels and enough Preps to make it for a year on board.

Far as how long it takes to learn to Sail, not really that long. You can take week long Vacations that will teach you the rudiments of sailing a small yacht, and pick lots of places to do that still. There are Sailing schools in the Bahamas, in the Meditarranean and in the South Pacific you can go to. Will cost you some, but not nearly what a 60' behemoth would cost.

Making big transits over Blue Water takes experience and time to gain the expertiese, but coastal sailing is not all that hard. Navigation is quite easy so long as the GPS is up and running, but when that goes off the map navigating via Sextant and Compass is quite a bit more challenging, and you gotta know your constellations, which also take time to memorize. For short coastal sailing though, Dead Reckoning keeping track of your course and over water speed works fine for the most part, and is not that hard to learn.

Dmitri is very Positive on Seasteading, but he does not cover many of the downsides that will be present in real SHTF scenarios. I try to do that with my Bugout analysis articles. Its not a perfect paradigm, but it has many good advantages to it.

If you can afford it, a good sailcraft is a good Bugout Machine. At the very least, when nobody else can leave a bad neighhborhood gone south via planes or commercial boats, you always can GTFO of Dodge, even from the Big Shities like Boston. Newfoundland is just a coastal sail away, and its not a highly populated place.

I'll try to get more about this up on DD in the next week or so. I have a lot of material I have to mave on other topics so this will take some time.

RE
www.doomsteaddiner.org
Last Edit: 1 year, 2 months ago by Reverse Engineer.

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #1003

My last eight years on St. John, US Virgin Islands, I owned an 18 foot Cape Dory Typhoon Weekender, "the littlest yacht." It is a great training boat, Alberg design, if you would plan to move up to a larger classic monohull bugout, and they can be found everywhere, even lakes, in good condition cheap. As with most fiberglass boats from the early 70's, they are overbuilt and have held up well. They are trailerable, though the keel makes it trickier. Displacement is one ton and it includes a 500 lb cast iron full keel. They are too small for any sort of bugout, but as they handle like a larger vessel in many respects, a great training vessel and lots of fun if one can leave the doom at the shore for the day.

I second RE that Orlov's recommendations for a boat are excellent. He, his wife, and cat are living on their boat year round in Boston Harbor. As one might expect from Orlov, he thinks outside the box, and has executed a lot of good ideas, such as how to insulate the boat for a Boston winter without being buried in mildew. He made a lot of classic mistakes at the start of his nautical adventure, and one should search for his earlier writings on the subject as well.

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #1005

  • Nassim
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This interesting discussion about boats was to be found deep down in the "Tsunami" thread. It has nothing to do with which boat can handle a real ocean tsunami best.

Am I the only one to miss a single discussion thread?
Last Edit: 1 year, 2 months ago by Nassim.

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #1006

el gallinazo wrote:
As with most fiberglass boats from the early 70's, they are overbuilt and have held up well.


I'd like to expand here on this point made by EG if you do go in the market for a Fiberglass boat (most of them). DON"T buy a new boat! First off because the prices are stupid but more importantly because Fiberglass comes in two Black/White incarnations, Good FG and Bad FG. You can't KNOW which it is for about 10 years or so. Bad FG will delaminate, the boat will get leaks and its basically impossible to keep up with repairing it. Good FG is basically FOREVER, at least by the measure of a Human Lifespan. A Fibeglass hull that has held its integrity for 10 or more years probably is good for 50.

In the Used Market these days, you can pick up some very nice boats built in the 70s-80s for practically a SONG. Boats that sold New for $200K in 1980's dollars can be had sometimes for under $40K, and if you shop around you find some Old Guys who took care of them so well they are better than new, and they just want to find a buyer they think will take good care of their boat. You can also find some not well maintained boats that superficially look bad, but the Hull is still first class and these you can get for $20K and under. Many also go on the Auction Block in Bankruptcies these days.

However, remember your Maintenance fees until TSHTF. Boats are a money sink extraordinaire. If you keep them in the water and don't sail them regularly, the hull gets fouled with algae and has to be regularly scrubbed. Bigger the boat is, more it costs to yank it up out of the water and do hull maintenance. If you are actually living aboard, you can take of this problem by regularly getting in the water with snorkel and fins and scrubbing a bit in the water regularly, but if you let it go too long it has to be hauled up in dry dock. Salt accretion can also cause you issues with your electrics. All things to consider before going the Seasteading route.

RE

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #1007

  • alfbell
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I think a sailboat is definitely the ultimate "bugout" vehicle. It puts you in the best fabian condition and gives you a home with the most freedom from government and authorities and the best chance of survival (and no property taxes, domicile state, or way of being located).

Unfortunately for a landlubber like me, and after just reading some of Orlov's writings on the subject, there is a lot to know and a lot to do regarding this, which is a bit too intimidating for me. On second thought I don't think that I can move towards this as a solution.

(Damn! Why didn't I take sailing when I was in camp, and why didn't I spend some of my Summers learning how to boat and sail? Oh well.)

I guess I'll have to figure out how to survive and thrive on land. (I'm waiting for some genius to be able to do diesel engine conversions so they run on hydrogen or pure water. Then at least a motorhome would be a decent bugout vehicle for the future.)

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #1008

alfbell wrote:
I think a sailboat is definitely the ultimate "bugout" vehicle. It puts you in the best fabian condition and gives you a home with the most freedom from government and authorities and the best chance of survival (and no property taxes, domicile state, or way of being located)


Its not as good as it seems Alf. There are some very critical problems with the Sail Paradigm that Dmitri does not consider. Much like the Gas Powered RV, it has only a window of Utility, its not a long term solution.

I won't rewrite all the problems here but just sample a few. First off, Sailboats are very vulnerable to Piracy while at sea, and very vulnerable to theft while moored. For so long as the system as a whole holds up, here in the FSofA you are OK in a Marina, but when there is general lawlessness and mayhem going on any boat moored in any populated location is horrendously vulnerable.

Second, even on a decent size boat your storage space is very limited. You can store maybe a year's worth of well packaged freeze dried stuff, but if you do you wedge out most of your living space. I do not see such a methodology as a long term solution here, its just a Bugout method.

In many respects, despite fuel unavailability likely down the line, gas powered RVs work better if again you realize that they are not long term solutions, just Bugout means.

Long term success demands a Community, the Bugout Machine is just a means to get you temporarily OUT of a really BAD situation and hopefully into a somewhat better one. In both cases, the primary advantage is in Mobility and not putting all your eggs into one "basket" of a given location which could go south on you for many reasons.

More on this in due time over on DD.

RE
www.doomsteaddiner.org
The following user(s) said Thank You: alfbell

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #1027

  • alfbell
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A self-sustaining community/commune with a divergent group of good like-minded people (wide ranging skill sets); on arable land (good crop fields and some solar green houses); with a good well; adobe type homes (thick clay or straw bale walls for comfort and low energy needs in Winter and Summer) with some wood stoves also; guns and ammo; and a little C-Class RV for bugout or emergencies would be a good way to go.

Here's a concept: Buy a large tract of good land in a good location and build your adobe home. Create a bunch of sites so others can build homes there as well (could even put down concrete pads and buy repo'd mobile homes really cheap and set them up for living). Be selective and start recruiting your community by having the people you choose buy into it or rent from you. End result: a group that thrives; grows its own food, repairs it own vehicles machinery and tools, protects and defends the compound, etc.

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #1035

alfbell wrote:
A self-sustaining community/commune with a divergent group of good like-minded people (wide ranging skill sets); on arable land (good crop fields and some solar green houses); with a good well; adobe type homes (thick clay or straw bale walls for comfort and low energy needs in Winter and Summer) with some wood stoves also; guns and ammo; and a little C-Class RV for bugout or emergencies would be a good way to go.

Here's a concept: Buy a large tract of good land in a good location and build your adobe home. Create a bunch of sites so others can build homes there as well (could even put down concrete pads and buy repo'd mobile homes really cheap and set them up for living). Be selective and start recruiting your community by having the people you choose buy into it or rent from you. End result: a group that thrives; grows its own food, repairs it own vehicles machinery and tools, protects and defends the compound, etc.


What you describe here is something we have been discussing for quite some time on Reverse Engineering, the founding group that is responsible for the new Doomstead Diner blog/forum.

Generally speaking, putting all your eggs in one basket of a given Doomstead limits your mobility, and once you start building a whole bunch of stuff on a given plot of land you become tied to it. What happens if you say buy a nice Doomstead in Texas, but then a Border War breaks out full on with Mejico? What happens if you plop down in the mountains of Colorado but then drought or flood or Wildfires take out your Doomstead?

Cheaper raw land with no permanent structures on it distributed out in various different regions provides redundancy, as long as you have enough mobility to move from one spot to the other. The key here is learning to live on unimproved land with temporary structures in a nomadic lifestyle. Various types of good cheap shelter can be utilized from tents at the beginning to hexayurts and geodesics, along with of course the Bugout Machines for so long as you can get the gas to move them from one spot to another. Once the gas is no longer available, they stay where they lay in their Final Resting Place. Then you have secondary means of movement possible after that, Bicycles and even on Foot.

I'll be posting up tomorrow an article I wrote a while back about living Mobile utilizing commercial Storage Units and Bugoout Machines or even just your SUV on DD.

RE
www.doomsteaddiner.org

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #1038

  • bluebird
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Reverse Engineer said "The key here is learning to live on unimproved land with temporary structures in a nomadic lifestyle."

Reminds me of various Indian tribes who lived hundreds of years ago in North America. And if I were younger, I would seriously consider it. But I am older and with family history, I probably won't live beyond 10 more years anyway. It is unfortunate that I am unable to get younger family members (or anyone) to understand our planetary/financial/food/shelter predicaments that this would be beneficial for them to begin prepping for. But they already think I am crazy at the small things I already am doing, I can't imagine what they would say if I attempted a nomadic lifestyle.

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #1040

  • hombre
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I am in the same situation, Bluebird. Another decade or so and I may be gone, or will likely be immobile at best.
As to this statement... "The key here is learning to live on unimproved land with temporary structures in a nomadic lifestyle."...
There are not really any (livable) wilderness areas left large enough to accomodate a nomadic lifestyle. Once again, population density enters the picture.
I suppose our best bet is to be "...nomadic of mind, if not of place..."
Actually, I am now thinking more about the well being of my kids and a granddaughter then I am for myself and spouse. We'll likely go down with the ship (of state). Right now some of my own family think my ideas about the near term future are somewhat silly, if not absurd, so I keep them mostly to myself--even while watching and planning.
One thing I avoid like the plague is becoming fixed into a "set" of beliefs. everything is dynamic and change is unceasing.

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #1042

  • hombre
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El G - Another fine post. Makes good sense to me!
I would think it would be better for folks to play it safe in short term TB's than to, later, be sorry, even for those who did not agree with your reasoning. What else to do with their stash? -- into the market!!??

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #1044

hombre wrote:
There are not really any (livable) wilderness areas left large enough to accomodate a nomadic lifestyle. Once again, population density enters the picture.


I am no Spring Chicken either. However, I am not talking about living H-G here on a neolithic level, at least not for quite a while yet. You'll understand better what I am talking about after I get up the article later today.

RE
www.doomsteaddiner.org

Re: When the Deflation Tsunami Hits, Losing the Least is a Winner 1 year, 2 months ago #1047

OK, I got up the Mobile Living/Nomadic article in conjunction with "OWS" day on DD. Surly got up another OWS article also.

www.doomsteaddiner.org/blog/2012/03/08/storage-unit-ows-professional-protester-paradigm-owsppp/

RE
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