Debt Rattle January 7 2023
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” But it’s created itself, really. Not me. Which is much better, obviously.”
I think a Dunbar’s # riff applies here in terms of commentariat population.
Too many commentators create too much chatter and the discursive atmosphere separates into various subset echo bubble chambers.
There are enough people involved here to keep things lively and credible, but not so many that we just become another crowd. Crowds are great at making its members mostly invisible and inaudible to each other, and the echo bubble chamber effect kicks in.
This of course reduces revenues but does keep the blog’s soul intact and vital.
Hmmm. A thought. The market is ripe for a no frills grass roots fact checker on, say, substack.
No ax to grind other than data hygiene and adequate interpretive context. Such a thing could not only make serious money but might also, in a sense, expand the Dunbar Window. Commentators would naturally focus on their pet topics/themes, in the process forming subset echo bubble chambers that illuminate and clarify rather than darken and mute, because the blog’s core theme: just the facts, if you please — naturally tends to dissolve ideological or thematic meme viruses. You know, like The World IS Warming/the World is NOT Warming. Such word-flus would tend to stay within their respective echo bubble chamber commentator cliques, allowing many more commentators to get involved without having to struggle with too much groupthink.
Topics would change rapidly, rather than lock into themes like (for example) covid/Ukraine.
The commentators would also do much of the bloggist’s work for him.
Just a thought. I know I’m not gonna do it.
And yea mon, Raul has been an adroit administrator because he has upheld the decency to let things be what they are. One wonders how many times he has had to talk himself out of going nuclear on us/one of us/some of us. It’s not easy. He’s tried to intervene a few times But I think he’s learned that democracies either run themselves or not at all. He owns and runs the place, but is not a king, just a janitor. (That’s a compliment, btw.)
Segueing off janitors, here’s a dark but wryly insightful gem:
cuz everybody loves us now:
I’m bored and energetic. Just warning yes that I might wade into the odious climate thing, gloves od and brass knucks on. Y’all argue that stuff like whiny Furbees. I just might janitor down fro0m JMars and get all serious and shit. Oh mies. Maybe it’s time for us to set the world on fire by arguing so much that the friction sets the world on fire.
Amittedly it is a toss up as to whether my mental capacity is that of a box of rocks or a sack of hammers. Six hundred years of Enlightenment has produced a civilization that reserves to itself the right to muder indiscriminately. Within this civilization are societies comprised of individuals prepared to surrender liberty and autonomy, perhaps life itself, to retain material possesions.
Bosco could you please point out the virtue to be found, i am at a loss. (perhaps a tune from the Hot Club de France would set me straight)
Now that the word “bombshell” has been overused so mercilessly that it has no utility at all (instead of inserting the word “bombshell” in its adjectival sense you might as well just insert a blank space by tapping the keyboard’s space bar) whatever can we do or say to flag an item as shockingly important?
I sure dunno. Therefore, and with no further ado, check this out : https://youtu.be/ERvURcpg3JE
Seems that the Us Department of Defense centrally planned and controlled the ENTIRE Covid/DeathVax debacle for well over a decade.
Not the top of the Cabal, to be sure, but much closer as regards proving it (to those who require external proofs of what they are staring at with their own two eyes.)
I’ve always had a hard time believing it comes down to complexity.
Certainly I came across the concept back when I came across Peak Oil and from there the general Doom-O-Sphere a little bit after Katrina. Or really, with that first episode of Connections with James Burke. Complexity surely enters into it somewhere.
Thinking of Noirette’s post about the medical establishment:
Let it all rot.. and it does, as complex systems that are not maintained by keen ppl working precisely defined slots in a matrix break down quickly.
…which sums up why we are in the shit right now in all aspects of civilization, I don’t know that I jump straight to blaming complexity. Surely a properly functioning medical system is a value ADD for civilization.
Maybe we could say at a certain level of complexity, the complex system is mistaken by humans living within it as being reality. A plant that forgets that dirt exists doesn’t do too well either.
(PS, “Deep sea level temperatures”? See: Underwater volcanism, as per the “unusual warming in Antarctica” that turned out to be this. It also releases the world’s largest CO2 right on 100 million year schedule, 30x times in a row. Has it been tracked and quantified? Then how can you refute me?)
Bullshit and lies Dr D, as you well know. There is no ‘100 million year schedule, 30x time in a row;.
Just why are you posting this crap? It is neither informative nor entertaining. Just irritating.
The Earth’s interior has been cooling for 4.5 billion years, as the radioactive isotopes within it have undergone nuclear decay (transition) to form more stable isotopes or completely stable isotopes. Hence, volcanic activity has declined throughout all of geologic history, and is still declining.
I take it the crap you invent and post on TAE comes from The Science, , as opposed to actual science.
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.@D Benton Smith- interesting
Back on the old defunct LATOC, there was a forum member (maybe it was Old Horseman IIRC) who was VERY insistent that a government created pandemic would be used to cause lockdowns, loss of civil liberties, mass injections. He was also writing a dramatization/novel in installments of how that could work out.
That goes back to around 2005. I should have paid more attention. I thought the pandemic angle was one of the wackier, less-interesting subjects in the Doom-Sphere. I gave it a cursory glance and wrote it off. Derr. If I’d paid attention, I would have been able to take note of where he was getting his info; what caused a quivering of the antennae 18+ years in advance? Dunno.
‘Six hundred years of Enlightenment has produced a civilization that reserves to itself the right to muder indiscriminately. Within this civilization are societies comprised of individuals prepared to surrender liberty and autonomy, perhaps life itself, to retain material possesions.’
Well said, tboc
It goes further. This ‘civilisation’ is predicated on continuation of practices known to eventually cause the complete annihilation of most life forms, including humans of course, on the only planet known to support life.
Institutionalied insanity is the only term I can think of, other than utter evil.
Yeah. I , too have a rear view mirror that works way better than my headlights. Ah, well. Live and learn, hopefully. Otherwise it’s back to the old fashioned way of gaining wisdom . . . die and learn . . . (which takes a lot longer and feels much worse during the process.)
“Howdy boscohorowitz
How the surface temperature of the ocean couldn’t be relevant to the discussion of ocean surface temperature, I won’t understand unless it is explained to me in further detail.
If it is argued that say, 3-10 degrees increase in ocean surface temperature leads to a Planetary Meltdown, and the rejoinder is that it has been at BOILING TEMPERATURE and there has been copious life on earth before and afterwards, how is this NOT relevant, in-context discussion, please?”
I promise on my dead Mother’s dentures that if I do engage with this stuff seriously, you will not like it. But you will like it. You will like it or else. You will especially like not liking it. But for now, I’ll note that this — “How the surface temperature of the ocean couldn’t be relevant to the discussion of ocean surface temperature, I won’t understand unless it is explained to me in further detail.” is not even in the same universe as what I actually said.
May it please you to know that I am already struggling with old anger habits from my misspent middle-aged tenure as a certified internet chatterbox. The ego is like William Gibson’s description of drug addiction:
“Addictions […] started out like magical pets, pocket monsters. They did extraordinary tricks, showed you things you hadn’t seen, were fun. But came, through some gradual dire alchemy, to make decisions for you. Eventually, they were making your most crucial life-decisions. And they were […] less intelligent than goldfish.”
― William Gibson, Zero HistoryAnd my ego has been entrained for many decades to freely project my frustration at what I perceive to be another’s obtuseness or obfuscation (they resemble each other a lot). But I know — I KNOW — I am smarter than a goldfish. Right?
“Amittedly it is a toss up as to whether my mental capacity is that of a box of rocks or a sack of hammers.”
Someone needs to make an app where I can turn any two things into a yin-yang symbol. In this case, hammers and rocks. With Zen-lite aphorisms like Liberate Yourself: Hammer Outside the Box
‘Surely a properly functioning medical system is a value ADD for civilization.’
A properly functioning medical system is of value to practitioners within the institutionalised industrial medical system and for financial speculators in the short term.
However, as professor Albert Bartlett famously pointed out several decades ago in the video that most people absolutely refuse to watch, everything we consider good is actually bad in the long term.
Of course, what was the long term when Bartlett spoke about it all decades ago is now the short term.
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“Bosco could you please point out the virtue to be found, i am at a loss. (perhaps a tune from the Hot Club de France would set me straight)”
Do you mean virtue to be found in modern human civilization? If so, I nominate that which has also proved to be our downfall: symbolic reasoning aka language. It’s so good it’s bad for us, but I am an ardent verbophile (and a huge fan of myself), so I will just leave this here as an example of something I feel is virtuous, i.e., makes life worth living:
Ode to a Dictionary
I wished to look up every word
Of every world that has unfurled
Beyond the thin horizon’s edge,
On every translucent page,
In every dawn’s unrolling sky’s
Enscrolling clouds where carpets fly
Not by any property of flight
But that the ground has grown so light
It joins the air, and with delight,
Absorbs the stars into itself…
I placed the book back on the shelf,But warily, as if it might
Request that I leave on the light
So it might read itself, although
It’s hard to see how any glow
Could penetrate a closed-up book.
There is no keyhole light can look
Through to illuminate inside
The pages lying side by side
Like countless sleeping princess brides.
Instead I placed it on the table,
Opened to page ‘ruth through sable’,Wondering if our books read us
While we read them, if wanderlust
Afflicts their words, like they do we
Who read of things we’ll never see.Robin Morrison 2-7-16
“First we take Manhattan, then we take Berlin.
Thank you for the plywood violin.”
First we take Soledar, then we take Bakhmut.
Then we take Ukraine.
Eventually we watch Manhattan and Berlin collapse.
Alex has a rather boring style of delivery but is spot-on in analysis.
I think the ‘plywood tanks’ are just not going to stand up to battle conditions. Thanks for the video, Oroboros.
Regarding Pentagon’s preparation/planning of covid vis a vis big pharma, the milindustrial complex chicken or egg question applies: do the druggies run the Pentagon or the Pentagon run the druggies? (I know that’s a false dichotomy; it’s employed only to demarcate a spectrum of possibilities.
sAID QUESTION, IF ANSWERED, MIGHT TELL US IF THE kOVID sTATE (CAPS oops) was employed to make people rich no matter who dies or was employed to make people die except those whom the process makes rich. (Also a false dichotomy; also a possibility spread marker.)
One of TAE’s fundamental question since covid hit has been: do they just not care who dies so long as they are ok? or do they want people to die for death’s sake?
My vote still remains for the former: ‘wealth and power uber alles‘, not with ‘wealth and power want less alles to be uber‘? Either way, I don’t like TPTB’s chances of getting away with it much longer. If their plan is to deliberately depop us alles, they will themselves also get the depopping they deserve. The alles are the ship of state that TPTB pretend to steer.
Jesus didn’t freak that the justification for the money-changers to be on the temple steps was to convert foreign currency so people could buy animals to be sacrificed to appease Yahweh’s weird charcoal fixation. A guy like Jesus had to see the senseless cruelty “unto the least of these”.
But what he freaked over was that they were pulling de facto funny-money scams on their clients, the pious Jews.
JC was more pissed at the commercialization of atrocity than atrocity itself. Maybe Jesus was smart that way. I think so.
It goes further. This ‘civilisation’ is predicated on continuation of practices known to eventually cause the complete annihilation of most life forms, including humans of course, on the only planet known to support life.
as far as what you’re implying, YOU FIRST.
Unless you just want OTHERS to believe this to their detriment.
A properly functioning medical system is of value to practitioners within the institutionalised industrial medical system and for financial speculators in the short term.
Thanks for posting a video I watched 18 years ago that says nothing about the value of medical systems in a civilization.
The video you posted about concerns % growth rates.
Do I accurately interpret that you simply take anything that happens to allow a positive population growth rate as bad?
If properly run medicine saves lives, allows for population growth, is therefore bad, doesn’t it follow that medical malpractice that does the opposite is good? Making the not-vax good?
Are you for good medical practices, which will facilitate population growth? Or bad medical practices that inhibit or stop population growth? Are you both for and against both good and bad medical practice?
Instead of saying you are refuting one point, then responding with something you consider to be irrefutable that concerns something else, please just state your case honestly and openly and have it out.
I am not much interested in the fine-grained detail of US politics or the functioning of its various institutions because we are WAY past the point at which a totally corrupted apparatus can be used to correct that self-same apparatus. Those who try will gain new wisdom (and perhaps even some enlightenment) in their efforts to do so. God bless ’em and good luck.
Cleaning up any part of the extant US government is akin to fixing a clogged toilet while the house is burning down.
“Do I accurately interpret that you simply take anything that happens to allow a positive population growth rate as bad?”
Speaking on behalf of AFKTT (just to piss him off;) ), I say, No, you do not interpret him correctly.
A more correct interpretation would be that human population growth grows like compound interest. Human pop growth requires civilization. Civ always uses ever more resources as our clever brains and horny hearts find ever new ways to consume what’s around us.The more we make, the more we destroy, and not just the inevitable amount of waste required by thermodynamic entropy.but also the amount required by what economists call “growth”: for example, hot industries like Pet Rock manufacturing:
We are not a sustainable species as apex predators, essentially. Human uber alles is our only mode since the agricultural revolution, but especially once we learned to use fire to make machines work for us, and human uber alles is not a survivable mode for a species that is addicted to consuming everything possible.
@ Noirette
Yes – This is their plan…
Go private!
“‘Surely a properly functioning medical system is a value ADD for civilization.’
A properly functioning medical system is of value to practitioners within the institutionalised industrial medical system and for financial speculators in the short term.
However, as professor Albert Bartlett famously pointed out several decades ago in the video that most people absolutely refuse to watch, everything we consider good is actually bad in the long term.”
Remove emotionally-based absolutes like “everything” and its logic lines up with itself: “systems” which are human bureaucracies always turn over time to serving the bureaucracies’ needs not those whom the system was originally built to serve.
In the long run, antibiotics absolutely are bad for homo sapiens even though in the short run they’ve been a great blessing. In the long run, we are the creatures who control fire. To a hammer, everything is a nail. To a fire, everything is a holocaust.
That’s the logic I read from the quote.
D Benton – I have been following this stuff on Bailiwick and through Sasha Latypova. It is ultimately where the yarn unravels.
I like the way you think Mr Benton. Probing, unafraid and at times serious, but always with razor sharp awareness of the power of the mind and the importance of honesty and thinking.
Me – “Do I accurately interpret that you simply take anything that happens to allow a positive population growth rate as bad?”
boscohorowitz – “Speaking on behalf of AFKTT (just to piss him off;) ), I say, No, you do not interpret him correctly.”
I said a functioning medical system is a value add for a civilization. He quoted that saying our civilization is maximum evil, and then
“everything we consider good is actually bad in the long term.”
Followed by a video explaining the evils of population growth.
It isn’t like we’re in an Apostolic church, he just spoke in tongues, and needs an interpreter for us to know what he said.
If he wants to say that the rest of his post is completely out of context with the quote of me that he started off with, he can of course say it.
Aww, you’re just saying those nice things about me because they’re true!
Cardiac Incidents for 15-44 year-olds Double Since Vaccine Rollout in Australia
TVASF
A program designed to compensate Canadians for vaccine injuries has paid out $2.779 million since it started accepting claims 19 months ago.
Maybe I can simplify and reduce a lot of sparring and walls of text to a somewhat simpler question for Afewknowthetruth
Are you familiar with the writings/thoughts of Robert Jensen? His favorite saying is that “we need to tear it all down”
He maintains that agricultural practice causes all the ills of humanity. Agriculture leads to civilization, which HE maintains is the cause of child abuse, rape, racism, murder, incest, war, etc. etc
He therefore reasons that the only proper existence for humanity is as neolithic peoples practicing neither agriculture nor animal husbandry.
He advocates that we need to, right now, start tearing down all the roads, bridges, power plants, hydroelectric dams, everything. We need to “tear it all down.”
He thinks about 8 billion people need to die ASAP and if he could take a time machine back to retroactively kill them such that those 8 billion never get to have a life in the first place, he’d be happy with that too.
He says we are headed for a Climate Meltdown.
He says civilization is evil
He says humanity is evil for causing extinctions (at least, whenever it practices agriculture)
Afewknowthetruth, please tell me what, if anything, Jensen is wrong about?
If you take his presumptions as a given, how do you not arrive at his conclusions? I ask because it seems like you are starting from the same presumptions and at times possibly arriving at the same conclusions. I’ve been trying to determine what exactly your conclusions are and, if different, how did you get there. Because Jensen’s “solutions” seem to follow automatically and logically from his presumptions.
One thing I love about the climate debate is summed up by the following joke from Huck Finn: Everybody talks about the weather but no one does anything about it.
Climate change deniers claim that the weather is unaffected by our activity, so don’t do anything about it. Makes sense to me.
Climate change supporters (the honest ones, not the paid ones) say that it’s too late to do anything about what we do to the climate. Not at this point of the game anyway, so leave it be and let’s work on figuring out how to live with much less energy since we’re running low on fuel anyway. Makes sense to me.
However, there is also a strong correlation (that I perceive as fading) between deniers of climate change and deniers of Peak Oil. And there is also a strong correlation between (honest) supporters of climate change and supporters of Peak Oil.
One reason I tend to camp with (honest) climate change supporters is that Peak Oil is demonstrably real, and the idea of learning to use less energy one way or another is also logically good since (to cite just one reason) it seems to turn us into something that a guy named Rick Larson described oh so well: “The fascist’s socialist economy is slowing because an increasing amount of people no longer have the will to live a natural life. Insulin bloated blobs of entertainment seeking sugar for brains. If the cure doesn’t kill them all off, a virus certainly will. Not sure what will happen to the economy if the sugar blobs aren’t around to circulate entertainment money. But when the sugar blob’s resource draw disappears, for people who make it through the coming bottleneck there will be a lot of resources made available, at least for those of us with something to defend.”
I could cite other reasons but why explain the obvious benefit of efficiency as an economic basis versus the ever increasing consumption as an economic basis? Economies based on denying entropy must fail, cuz entropy never quits and always takes its % TANSTAAFL, even!
More is not necessarily more gooder. Long term anythings exist long term because they form relative levels of equilibria between things. Everything is a tide. A civ based on the tide always coming in ends up drowning itself, in our case ironically with something closer to fire than ice.
“I said a functioning medical system is a…..”
And I said what I said. We can talk to each other or about ‘it’, whatever ‘it’ is. My recommendation is that you respond to me not whatever ‘it’ you choose to sidetrack with. Or, if you prefer, let afktt speak for you. 😉
But seriously: try and stay on target, ok? I can only do so many tangential recursive logic loops in a day. Preferably none, unless it’s for a joke and then I am all flathead home erectur for it. 🙂
“He says civilization is evil”
Whatever evil is. Bacon is good… unless you’re it’s source. I suspect that most Terran life forms would deem us evil, if they thought in such terms. As it is, they know to be wary of us (to grossly understate the situation).
As for the rest of that Jensen dude: I agree with his diagnosis of the patient, but his Rx is just adding more damage to a dying system. Beating a dead horse, repaving the road to hell with lunatic good intentions, typical moral supremacist logic.
It will die of itself. I see individual survival rapidly becoming much more ambitious an enterprise than the manner in which we’ve lived and been raised.
This climate change debate in the comments is great, gives me a chuckle every morning.
If I may add, the apocalyptic thinking associated with it seems to me a cultural bias. Talk of planetary meltdown or making the planet uninhabitable is nothing more than someone preaching of the rapture in the town square. No matter what perspective you are arguing and what supporting evidence you use, extrapolating this to the end and mass disaster is just the inversion of the progress focused utopian vision and reveals that one is trapped within the same Western European modes of thought. Get out of the straight line and get more into the circle, or the spiral, or anything that doesn’t go from the caves to the stars (or the End).
Another cultural bias is the conclusion that the commonly accepted consequences of climate change (either warming or cooling) would be bad for everyone. Looking at paleo climate data there would quite clearly be winners and losers. But our all encompassing infinite bias means we have to talk for all of mankind, and the same problem/solution has to apply to the entire globe.
I strongly recommend that we refrain from putting our words into other people’s mouths but instead, reply to what they wrote. (However, feel free to speak on anyone’s behalf. No one has to take you seriously, after all. Maybe bill7 can tell me what’s on madamski’s mind these days. I kinda miss her sometimes.)
boscohorowitz
sure, he might have meant our civlization is the bestest most highly moral one by:
“This ‘civilisation’ is predicated on continuation of practices known to eventually cause the complete annihilation of most life forms, including humans of course, on the only planet known to support life.”
I literally quoted him and that literally is what the video is about.
But seriously, boscohorowitz: try and stay on target, ok? I can only do so many tangential recursive logic loops in a day. Preferably none, unless it’s for a joke and then I am all flathead home erectur for it.
“As for the rest of that Jensen dude: I agree with his diagnosis of the patient, but his Rx is just adding more damage to a dying system.”
The problem is that the conclusions follow intrinsically from the presumptions.
If you start from, and think on a continual basis that everyone and everything are rotten, essentially…. if you internalize key phrases, it will definitely have a deep adverse effect INDEPENDENT of the presumed bad stuff.
It will have an adverse effect individually, psychologically and it will have an adverse effect societally, civilizationally. I don’t accept the presumption that everyone can agree with Jensen’s starting points and then say “no matter” and be unaffected.
Those presumptions are deeply psychologically damaging.
“However, there is also a strong correlation (that I perceive as fading) between deniers of climate change and deniers of Peak Oil. And there is also a strong correlation between (honest) supporters of climate change and supporters of Peak Oil.”
Funny you should mention that, and it’s no coincidence.
I do not doubt at all that you’ve come across people proclaiming both Peak Oil and Climate Meltdown
This relates to the demise/implosion of LATOC. We had a lot of great posters with different sub-interests and discussions ranging freely on all types of issues. It was a really great community.
Then, in a short period of time, there was a very large influx of new people. “Coincidentally,” ALL of them were pushing a combination of the Wokeist NeoMarxist ideology in combination with the Climate Meltdown Jensenite creed.
The first place I ever heard, as a repeated catchphrase, “Tear it all down” was at LATOC with these newcomers. I’d guess maybe starting around 2010? A bit earlier?
When I heard “Tear it all down” associated with other stuff in 2020, the shared NeoMarxist roots were extremely obvious.
It’s no coincidence. Wokeists/NeoMarxists have done hits on everything from the D&D comunity to grandma’s knitting circle forum. The comic book industry, the gaming community, whatever. In retrospect, it plays out EXACTLY like stories I came across in other communities 2016-present.
They ran exactly the Alinsky Rules playbook, pretending to BE the crowd while selectively targeting forum members and driving them off one by one. They’d organize and plan on Facebook before dogpiling onto the forum like flying monkeys.
The fact that you previously saw a greater, but receding coincidence between Peak Oiler and Climate Meltdowner is no coincidence at all.
I can tell you that prior to this, WE, the Peak Oil Community, were concerned and interested in all the Climate Things, but we definitely did NOT overlap with the Climate Meltdown Jensenites
So yeah, I am SURE you have come across “Peak Oilers” saying We Are The Crowd and agreeing with All The Things
“Talk of planetary meltdown or making the planet uninhabitable is
nothing morehas much in common withthansomeone preaching of the rapture in the town square. ”“No matter what perspective you are arguing and what supporting evidence you use, extrapolating this to the end and mass disaster is
justthe inversion of the progress focused utopian vision and reveals that one is trapped within the same Western European modes of thought. Get out of the straight line and get more into the circle, or the spiral, or anything that doesn’t go from the caves to the stars (or the End).”Applause from me. Very well done. Nonetheless, the
strikethroughstrikes again. It is not “just” vision/bias based; the data at hand shows countless reasons why we’re headed for another big extinction event. We’re already in one, in fact. Just how big remains to be seen. Such data adds fiber to the anti-utopian vision/bias…. altho I see it impossible for us to move in an anti-utopian direction. Not as Who We Are Now. People who just yesterday believed that flying cars were the future.I see the best survival strategy as being as utopian as possible in a small group as possible. Not a grim survival group altho there will be grimness for sure, but a group based on being as happy as possible with what they can contrive: cuz that’s how our minds appear to be wired.
***
” “This ‘civilisation’ is predicated on continuation of practices known to eventually cause the complete annihilation of most life forms, including humans of course, on the only planet known to support life.”
I literally quoted him and that literally is what the video is about.”I agree with him and I believe you (haven’t watched the vid yet but plan to). I wrote a paragraph or two explaining why I believe his diagnosis is correct.
“But seriously, boscohorowitz: try and stay on target, ok? I can only do so many tangential recursive logic loops in a day. Preferably none, unless it’s for a joke and then I am all flathead home erectur for it.”
You flatter me, sir. Imitation is the sincerest form of… nonetheless, you asked for a target. Here, back by popular request, is a target that actually stays on me!
You have a very oblique manner of discussion, jb-hb.But perception is everything, and perception is subjective. That said, I feel like I’m being circled by Injuns than discussing things forthrightly with another person.
***
“Another cultural bias is the conclusion that the commonly accepted consequences of climate change (either warming or cooling) would be bad for everyone. Looking at paleo climate data there would quite clearly be winners and losers. But our all encompassing infinite bias means we have to talk for all of mankind, and the same problem/solution has to apply to the entire globe.”
We live in very very very weird and extremely toxic/lethal times, and this further propels that globalistic thinking. Kids raised on nuclear winter etc. tend to think in those all or nothing terms. Movies are convincing things:
“If you start from, and think on a continual basis that everyone and everything are rotten, essentially…. if you internalize key phrases, it will definitely have a deep adverse effect INDEPENDENT of the presumed bad stuff.”
I concur. Hard things to think or feel about can be, you know, hard to think or feel about. Everything has a cost. Ask any anti-vaxxer about the cost of communicating the idea of the entire medical system being functionally more enemy than aid, with the ratio growing worse over time.
The pursuit of truth is expensive although truth itself is free.
“So yeah, I am SURE you have come across “Peak Oilers” saying We Are The Crowd and agreeing with All The Things”
That is surely one reason for the overlap, but hardly all. BTW, I stipulated 3 times — THREE!!! — (CAPS thrills…) that I referred to HONEST (and unpaid) climate change supporters. Why throw straw men at me? They cayn’t fight for sheet.
Meanwhile, it still makes sense not to worry about climate change, including the worrisome waste of having to refute it, which is also pointless; and it also makes good sense to play close attention to Peak Oil implications and developments. Which is what I said before. Also, I’ve been watching Peak Oil and climate change online since ’99, so I’ve been exposed to a great many peak oilers/climate changers, so what happened after 2010 is only part of the story. That said, I based my observation here on what I’ve see at TAE since… 2018?
I perhaps should have stipulated HONEST (and unpaid) in my descriptions of climate deniers/Peak Oil dismissers, perhaps. That would’ve removed the idea that pointing out corruption of the climate/peak oil crowd made it any different than the climate deniers/Peak Oil dismissers, and we wouldn’t have wasted time on propaganda demographics (or something like that) when the topic is climate change with a necessary* emphasis on climatological logic and fact, not media spin campaigns regarding climate change.
*Well, I think it’s necessary. But what do I know?
Regarding Trump supporting McCarthy: Trump’s a weather vane. He turns wherever he thinks the reelection camera is focused on his best side, is all I see there.
boscohorowitz, I salute you.
And also thanks for claiming peak oilers are on your side.
There was a time the Normans invaded the Byzantine Empire – many of them, the same ones who had invaded England. …and came up against a Varangian guard composed of English fighters who had been at Hastings.
It felt just a little bit like that
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