Debt Rattle July 27 2023
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the prime directive of any living entity—
an amoeba, an individual,a corporation, a government, anything—is to survive TO BE ABLE TO REPRODUCE.The CO2 thing is way, way more important than simply trying to break an individual or the public space with two plus two equals five
IF he is right, that cee oh two in the thousandths OF a percent kills everything, then we are in an emergency of literally existential proportions
I have asked A F K T T repeatedly, if YOU are the holy one, one of the FEW who KNOWS that ALL earthly life is on the line, then HOW ON EARTH do you determine your moral actions. Is ANYTHING that is even IMAGINED to “help” even a LITTLE BIT, or even POSSIBLY when we’re, you know, talking about humanity here, talking about LIFE, about THE PLANET… is ANYTHING AT ALL off the table????
Silence
Is there ANYTHING that is beyond the pale for you and how on god’s green earth do you determine it?
Silence. Can you guess why?
So when you nice, decent people who I genuinely appreciate so SO much, respond as if in a prozac and flouride induced haze, that People Shouldn’t Be Big Meanies, I worry.
Because he is TELLING YOU. TELLING YOU. That he rules over you COMPLETELY and that NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING is off the table in terms of what he can do to you and those you love and that such things ARE, if he has anything to say about it, ARE incoming.
His statement that 7 billion humans dying NOW would be a most-merciful-possible outcome is a CLUE
Are you #%&ing GETTING IT??????
1) Weird video-redirect still cutting in.
2) Farage nets 2 high-level CEO resignations. Don’t threaten the rights-to-ownership of a buch of rich people unless you want your head bitten off.
https://news.sky.com/story/coutts-ceo-to-stand-down-after-farage-banking-row-12928628@jb-hb: You know I get-it. We are engaging in discourse here We are not “the deciders” (h/t GW Bush).
There is a lot to be concerned about. I think the “owners” do intend to cull the herd down to Georgia-guidestones territory, but I don’t know for sure. I’m trying to do threat-stratification and figure out this “Surovkin Line” I’m walking into.
Nobody here is a threat to me. I appreciate this forum@JohnDay
And Aliens, lets do aliens now !”
Are you sure about that? Careful what you ask for, ya know? I think when that ‘Great Doorbell’ moment does (finally) arrive it’s going to be like the old game of Hide ‘n’ Go Seek, except this time it will be the entire macrocosmic ALL of the whole friggin’ heretofore ignored Universe announcing its arrival on our doorstep with the clarion call of, “Here I come! Ready or not!”
Engaging in a land war in Eurasia may be the second worst idea that there is. Picking a fight against the totality of the combined forces and friends of both Russia AND China has an outcome that’s as predictable as the outcome of a firing squad. Bang, it’s over.
Everybody knows this. It is not a secret. Even the stupidest among the most ignorant know that the United States government, through it’s minion NATO is trying to start exactly that war, with complete foreknowledge of what happens next (national suicide).
So why would America DO that to itself? Well, the answer is maybe too obvious. The answer is that it is NOT America who is doing it. It is the OWNERS of America who are doing it, through PROXIES, and the biggest of those proxies is it’s wholly owned subsidiary, the ostensible “government” and supportive institutions of the United States of America itself.
The owners are directing their minion (America) to do itself in. Toward this objective they use greed, fear and fantasies to bribe, force, trick or fool people into thinking of themselves as “America”, when in fact they are NOT America. They are merely SUCKERS who are allowing themselves to entertain a feel-good fantasy by means of greed, fear, hatred, willful ignorance and wishful thinking.
“America” is just a proxy, that’s all, and as with ALL wars this is just another PROXY war (albeit a very big one.)
Owner don’t go to war. They have the people they OWN go to war for them. Owners have no intention of fighting, getting hurt, or becoming casualties in any way whatsoever. That sort of unpleasantness is what PROXIES are for. Back in the days of the US Civil War owners could simply pay $300 and voila! They would by that payment, be exempted from war service. It costs a lot more than that now, of course, but hey, when Daddy owns the printing press price is no problem.
The sixty-four thousand dollar question is: who are these owner creeps? And the quadrillion dollar question is how to stop them once we know who they are.
It’s worse than a waste of time to try to reach the vile bastards by way of fighting up through myriad levels of layered defenses. Just forget about that fools errand. All you’ll get with that approach is bigger heaps of deader proxies, while making the owners even richer.
There is only ONE way to take those buggers down and escape the death spiral, and I think you already know what that way is, or at least you should know because you’ve being told so many times in so many different ways. I sure don’t need to say it again. You’re already annoyed that I say it as often as I do.
Availing yourself of that singular method is on you. I certainly can’t do it for you (although you just KNOW that I’m going to keep on pestering you by saying it).
If you want to survive as a free and healthy consciously aware human being with the rights and privileges of earthly existence then you are eventually going to have to ask for help from the one and only divine intelligence, creator of the universe. When you do that (in whatever manner that you can muster up) then that help will be forthcoming. But if you insist upon being all snotty and egotistical about it then I expect what one would reasonably expect to get from that kind of attitude towards one’s betters. Humility does have its price, of course, but it isn’t nearly as high as the one for arrogance.
Cookies Nuland just got promoted to Deputy Secretary of State
She is now number 2 at State, only behind that manwhore vermin cretin Blinken.
This means Pedo Joe doubled down on Ukronaziland
Former Deputy Secretary of State Wendy R. Sherman wanted war with China, drop Nazilensky in the wood chipper was her thing.
Cookies, the blood drinking Bitch Witch, is obsessed with destroying Russia.
She is like an ugly transgender Captain Ahab, even though she looks like the whale.
Like most women, ‘she’ has zero talent for understanding or practicing strategic military planning.
Russia is taking down NATO=tardistan and the Empire of Lies in Ukronaziland.
I mean, Down Deep, way deep.
Militarily, financially, morally, strategically, culturally, you name it.
Bit off more than she can chew
The trans Ahab, take he/haw down for the count
“To be, or not to be- that is the question. Whether ’tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or to take arms against a sea of troubles and by opposing, end them?”
Just seems apt, somehow.
Latest Ukronaziland ‘offensive’ (offensive to you, offensive to me, offensive to the whole civilized world) is a HUGE bust.
From the POV of the second of two Ukro APC-BMP-1s following first one.
First APC-BMP-1 gets taken out by Russian Lancet
Second one can’t get by the flaming wreakage and has to push the burning hulk through the hedgerow.
Russian drone warfare has changed the history of 21st century military conflicts.
NATO=tardistan can’t seem to pull it’s thumb out of it’s ass.
Second vid has a Swedish CV-90 going to Bandera Heaven. Nice to know Swedish gear burns so well, bet they’re glad they joined NATO=turdistan.
Acer Founder Doubts US Can Match Asia’s Chip Making Dominance:
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/acer-founder-semiconductor-us-falling-behind
According to Shih, the U.S. didn’t do itself any favors by outsourcing much of its semiconductor production decades ago. The supply chain necessary to sustain a consistent flow of chips heavily favors Asia, and there will be a significant lag in getting those operations fully entrenched stateside.
Digital Equipment Corporation:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Equipment_Corporation
They were the new wave of chips in the US at one time, opening a new echelon of computing overlapping the bottom of IBM’s customer range (universities). These were stout chips! I helped do setup on some ruggedized DEC uVAX machines that were to be installed on submarines, and we were conspicuously assured they would not be calling us for further support under this contract. The 911 call centers all used VAXen of some kind. Alcoa Aluminum used VAXen in shop-floor control for their gigantic aluminum smelters.
Compaq bought them with an eye to lower them to the level of other commodity hardware at the time.
You can still get OpenVMS to run, but it’s an aged beast. Think of it as a Harley-Davidson Sportster with a magneto and no lights.
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re: Nuland-Ahab
She has nailed a Franklin Mint Golden Eagle to a doorframe in the West Wing. First man/woman/other to spot Putin outside Russia gets that Eagle!
Doug MacGregor
They Pushed The Russians Too Hard And Now They’re All Doomed
Germ said
If you thought Event 201 was the last of it …
They are planning to do it again.Last Year, The Bill Gates Foundation, with John Hopkins and the WHO held a war drill called “Catastrophic Contagion” that predicted a pandemic that reflected exactly this.
TVASSF(will you fall for it next time?)
Of course, if you don’t discipline a violent dog the dog will just get more violent. Gates is that dog, nobody will fix those people without using violence, the violence they are using against us, using the police and other paid thugs. The right wing people of the USA, ironically given the guns, seem to reject the use of violence in the USA, the one tool that nature gave us to protect ourselves; which happens to be the same tool that the powerful use that keeps them powerful. You never heard of a mafia boss who refuses to use violence, or a POTUS who refuses to use violence.
Earthling Infestation https://drjohnsblog.substack.com/p/earthling-infestation
Sasha Latypova swings hard, connects, and hits it into the bleachers.
Population Control Policy , Why would my government want to kill me? Don’t they need the GDP growth?
Executive Summary:
Population control by any means necessary has been the international government policy since at least the 1970’s, but likely much longer than that.
US military and intelligence working on behalf of the globalist “elites” has enforced this policy internationally via campaigns of government bribery, blackmail, threats, violence, regime changes, famines and many other methods.
US Government has implemented the population control policy more covertly domestically by constructing the “public health” and “biodefense” industry, under false pretext of communicable disease control and prevention of bio-chemical attacks from foreign adversaries. These are utilized for systematic poisoning of the population (slow in the past, much more aggressive with covid injections).
We are living through global democide and an attempt at establishing a global totalitarian regime which requires a much smaller, utterly terrorized, menticided and impoverished population.
https://sashalatypova.substack.com/p/population-control-policy A Twitter message fact-checking Elon Musk after he raised the prospect that the COVID vaccine may have played a role in USC basketball standout Bronny James suffering cardiac arrest appeared and then quickly disappeared from the rebranded site — prompting speculation that the owner of the platform had it deleted…
..James, an 18-year-old college freshman and the son of NBA superstar LeBron James, was rushed to the hospital after suffering cardiac arrest during a basketball workout in Los Angeles on Monday. He was treated and listed in stable condition on Wednesday.
“We cannot ascribe everything to the vaccine, but, by the same token, we cannot ascribe nothing,” Musk said. “Myocarditis is a known side-effect. The only question is whether it is rare or common.”
https://nypost.com/2023/07/26/twitter-fact-check-disappears-from-elon-musk-post-linking-bronny-james-cardiac-arrest-to-covid-vaccine/ Peter McCullough MD has the same concerns, with ample justification. Myocarditis (especially subclinical myocarditis) is common in healthy young males after COVID gene therapy “vaccine product” injections.
Peter McCullough MD:
“Bronny James’ 18-year-old USC teammate Vince Iwuchukwu collapsed on the court during a summer 2022 workout at the Galen Center. USC, who mandated COVID-19 vaccines for students, had training staff rush to shock his heart into normal rhythm and he later received an ICD and returned to playing.
Now Bronny James himself, who attended Sierra Canyon high school where strict COVID-vaccine mandates were enforced, was reported to have a cardiac arrest and prompt recovery. LeBron James himself indicated that he and his family after doing their research were fully COVID-19 vaccinated. This was about three months after the US FDA put out myocarditis warnings on mRNA vaccines.”
In reviewing data from South Korea and other countries, regarding rates of myocarditis in vaccinated individuals earlier this year, McCullough made it clear what an absolute disaster the COVID-19 vaccine protocols were:
“COVID-19 vaccines should have never been administered to young persons without risks of serious respiratory illness. These outcomes confirm COVID-19 vaccine induced myocarditis is leading to death among young persons who unfortunately took one or more injection. Research on myocarditis risk stratification and mitigation is urgently needed.”
https://www.zerohedge.com/sponsored-post/dr-peter-mccullough-lebron-james-sons-cardiac-arrest-and-potential-role-spike@aspnaz re: violent thug
See my note re: DEC – Gates did that! Whacked a whole strategically important industry, just to sell more/cheaper.
Hannity Visibly Frustrated As RFK Jr. Dismantles Ukraine Talking Points (“Of Mice and Men”)
Hannity wasn’t happy that RFK was “blaming America’s role in this” for the Ukraine crisis…
..Kennedy Jr. focused his comments on exposing NATO’s role in pushing Moscow into a corner, given its historic expansion east and turning Ukraine into a proxy, but Hannity sought to interrupt him multiple times
“Because of our pushing the Ukraine into the war—” RFK had begun, before the Fox host interrupted with, “We pushed them into it or did Putin invade?”
According to the response:
“Well, let me answer your question,” replied Kennedy Jr., who then accused the U.S. of sabotaging the Minsk agreements in 2014 and 2015, which aimed to end the Donbas war yet largely failed to stop the fighting between Russian separatists and Ukraine’s armed forces.
“Putin, in good faith, began withdrawing troops from the Ukraine. What happened? We sent Boris Johnson over there to torpedo it because we don’t want peace. We want the war with Russia,” he argued, drawing applause from the audience...
..Hannity: “Do you trust Putin? Why are you blaming America’s role in this? Putin to me is an evil murdering dictator thug.”
RFK Jr: “On two occasions the Russians tried to sign a peace agreement. You do not need to make an enemy out of Russia. We won the Cold War.”
He also emphasized that Russia is going to do anything not to lose. “It would be like us losing a war to Mexico,” RFK Jr. said. “They are not going to lose the war.”
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/hannity-visibly-frustrated-rfk-jr-dismantles-ukraine-talking-pointsWalking a mile in those boots… Sputnik has the continuation.
“Go look at what Russia did in Stalingrad in order to preserve its territorial integrity. Russia’s been invaded three times through the Ukraine. The last time, Hitler killed one out of every seven Russians. They’re 400 miles from Moscow. We already have Aegis missile systems within 12 minutes of Moscow. We wouldn’t tolerate that if the Russians did it [like] in 1962 when they put them in Cuba,” the candidate added, referencing the Cuban Missile Crisis, during which time his late uncle, John F. Kennedy, was president.
“The more disturbing thing,” Kennedy said, “is that on two occasions the Russians tried to sign a peace agreement with [Ukrainian President Volodymyr] Zelensky,” and both times the West sabotaged it.
The candidate pointed to the 2015 Minsk Agreements, which Zelensky expressed interest in before being talked out of it by the US in 2019, and the 2022 draft peace deal reached after talks in Belarus and Turkiye.
“Then,” in February 2022, he noted, Russia sent “40,000 troops in. That’s not enough to conquer the country. Clearly, [Putin] wanted somebody to come to the negotiating table.” Russian and Ukrainian negotiators met in Istanbul, hammering out a draft peace deal. After that, “Putin in good faith began withdrawing troops from Ukraine. What happened? We sent Boris Johnson over there to torpedo it. Because we don’t want peace, we want war with Russia,” RFK Jr. stressed...
..“We promised in 1992, the Russian leadership said… ‘We’re gonna withdraw 400,000 troops from East Germany and we’re gonna allow you to reunite Germany under NATO,’ which is a hostile army. That’s a huge concession for them. ‘One commitment that we want,’ is what the Russians said, ‘is that you will not move NATO to the east.’ James Baker, who was then secretary of state under [George H.W.] Bush, famously promised ‘We will not move NATO one inch to the east.’ Well since then, we’ve moved it 1,000 miles and 14 countries. Now when we started that plan in 1997, Bill Perry, who was the secretary of defense under the Clinton administration, said ‘If you move NATO to the east, I am resigning because you are forcing the Russians to come to war with us.’ George Kennan, who’s the most important diplomat in American history, the architect of the containment policy [after] World War II, said the same thing. You do not need to make an enemy out of Russia,” Kennedy said.
https://sputnikglobe.com/20230726/west-torpedoed-ukraine-peace-because-we-want-war-with-russia—rfk-jr-1112150461.html John Helmer has context on the Russian view of the Eastern European territorial situation:
When the Ukrainian and NATO forces have lost their war in eastern Ukraine by Christmas, what will happen to the rump of western Ukraine?
The Russian warning, issued last Friday at the Security Council by President Vladimir Putin, is that the Russian Army will defend western Ukraine, known as Galicia, from any attempt at intervention by Polish forces under either a NATO “peacekeeping” formula, or a bilateral defence arrangement between the Kiev regime and Warsaw to slip Galicia under NATO Article Five protection.
Putin’s warning was concrete, explicit, geographically limited. It applied to the current western borders of the Ukraine, the eastern border of Poland, and the Polish-Belarus border. “I would also like to remind you what Poland’s aggressive policy led to. It led to the national tragedy of 1939, when Poland’s Western allies threw it to the German wolf, the German military machine. Poland actually lost its independence and statehood, which were only restored thanks in a large measure to the Soviet Union. It was also thanks to the Soviet Union and thanks to Stalin’s position that Poland acquired substantial territory in the west, German territory. It is a fact that Poland’s western lands are a gift from Stalin. Have our Warsaw friends forgotten this? We will remind them.”
The Warsaw friends weren’t the only audience Putin intended. His warning is also addressed to the Berlin friends, the Baltic friends, the Paris, Brussels, and Budapest friends, and of course, the Washington friends. In December 2021, they were offered the terms of mutual security and non-aggression in Europe in treaties for the US and NATO tabled by the Russian Foreign Ministry. They were dismissed in diplomatic negotiations lasting less than a month.
By Christmas of this year, as Putin has just pointed out, the Ukrainian army and the NATO forces will have expended their capacities to continue the fight. “The whole world sees that the vaunted Western, supposedly invulnerable, military equipment is on fire”, he added. What can happen next is “an extremely dangerous game, and the authors of such plans should think about the consequences.”
This is a warning that if the Poles move east, the Germans will be motivated to move east as well, in order to recover the Prussian territories Germany lost in its defeat and capitulation at the end of World War II. Hungary too will be motivated to change its northeastern border in order to rescue the ethnic Hungarian population of Transcarpathia in southwest Ukraine.
In short, Putin was announcing that “Stalin’s gift”, as he called it, was the stability of the post-1945 territorial settlement. Now, in defeating NATO’s attempt to destroy the Russians east of Kiev, the Russians are warning afresh that if NATO attempts to change its defence lines west of Kiev, the Russian army will dictate an entirely new territorial settlement in which NATO will be an even bigger loser of military capacity and territorial extension than the non-aggression treaties of December 17, 2021, offered.Helmer has the numbers of a massive IMF cash infusion into the Ukrainian central bank with no oversight at all. (How much goes to “the big guy” this time?)
This will be the end of the IMF, won’t it? Thanks Christine.
President Vladimir Zelensky has enough fingers to count that $115 billion is worth almost three times more than $41.3 billion.
The first number is the International Monetary Fund’s (IMF) calculation of “external support over 2023–27 involving sizable official financing in the form of grants and concessional loans, as well as debt relief.” This includes “SDR [Special Drawing Rights] 11.608 billion (577.01 percent of quota, about US$15.6 billion).” No IMF member state has ever been allowed to take a six-times multiple of its borrowing quota at this money volume except for the Ukraine. Nor has any IMF member state ever been authorised by the IMF board of directors to stop new domestic bank lending and postpone all borrowing obligations (“current debt standstill”) for at least another three years from this Christmas.
The resulting money pile the IMF calls “the wartime liquidity surplus”.Bernard at Moon of Alabama has the Hunter Biden plea-bargain-immunity-deal-cancellation story:
The results of the dirty deal would have been very generous for Hunter but the judge didn’t fall for the trick:
Will Scharf @willscharf – 10:35 UTC · Jul 27, 2023:
Judge Noreika smelled a rat. She understood that the lawyers were trying to paint her into a corner and hide the ball. Instead, she backed DOJ and Hunter’s lawyers into a corner by pulling all the details out into the open and then indicating that she wasn’t going to approve a deal as broad as what she had discovered.
DOJ, attempting to save face and save its case, then stated on the record that the investigation into Hunter was ongoing and that Hunter remained susceptible to prosecution under FARA. Hunter’s lawyers exploded. They clearly believed that FARA was covered under the deal, because as written, the pretrial diversion agreement language was broad enough to cover it. They blew up the deal, Hunter pled not guilty, and that’s the current state of play.
And so here we are. Hunter’s lawyers and DOJ are going to go off and try to pull together a new set of agreements, likely narrower, to satisfy Judge Noreika. Fortunately, I doubt if FARA or any charges related to Hunter’s foreign influence peddling will be included, which leaves open the possibility of further investigations leading to further prosecutions.
The court scene, with more drama, as described by the NY Times:
When the judge asked Leo Wise, a lead prosecutor in the case, if the investigation of Mr. Biden was continuing, he answered, “Yes.”
When she asked him, hypothetically, if the deal would preclude an investigation into possible violation of laws regulating foreign lobbying by Mr. Biden connected with his consulting and legal work, he replied, “No.”
Mr. Biden then told the judge he could not agree to any deal that did not offer him broad immunity, and Mr. Clark popped up angrily to declare the deal “null and void.”
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2023/07/judge-rejects-hunter-bidens-dirty-plea-deal.html#more Throwing away the ace-in-the-hole?
The White House on Thursday ruled out the possibility that President Biden would end up pardoning his son, Hunter, after a federal judge on Wednesday rejected an absurd plea deal which effectively made Hunter bulletproof from future prosecution for various crimes.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/watch-joe-biden-wont-pardon-hunter-white-house-backtracks-business-deals Russia has held high-level defense talks with North Korea at a moment Pyongyang is conducting a series of ballistic missile tests aimed at warning the United States while it docks a nuclear-armed submarine at a South Korean port. Threats and even nuclear warnings have been on the rise on the peninsula, also after several provocative joint US-South Korea military drills,
Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu led the talks with his North Korean counterpart, Kang Sun-nam, in the capital on Wednesday, a defense ministry statement confirmed, pledging a deepened ‘partnership’.
Shoigu declared “friendly” relations; that bilateral relations would be improved in all fields. “I am confident that today’s talks will contribute to strengthening cooperation between our defense ministries,” he said.
“Visits of warships, official visits of high-ranking defense officials, exchanges of working-level delegations, and personnel training have all contributed to maintaining peace and stability on the Korean Peninsula,” Shoigu added.
“I am glad to make your acquaintance and meet with you. I happily accepted your invitation to visit Pyongyang, the capital of a friendly state. I am grateful to my Korean friends for the rich program you have offered. From the very first minute, I felt your care and attention. I hope we will manage not only to work actively, but also to learn a lot of interesting things about North Korea, your culture and traditions, and see the sights,” the ministry quoted Shoigu as introducing the talks.
The Russian delegation will be in attendance Pyongyang’s celebrations of the 70th anniversary of the end of the Korean War, featuring a huge military parade and display of advanced missiles.
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/russia-south-korea-hold-rare-defense-talks-pyongyang-amid-soaring-us-tensions Some people get sick and confused when the 5G tower gets turned on, even if they don’t know about it.
The Unsettling Rise Of Microwave Syndrome
Courtney Gilardi’s 10-year-old daughter never had problems sleeping. But in August 2020, the morning after a 5G cell tower was installed within 450 feet of their Pittsfield, Massachusetts, home, she woke up complaining of headaches, dizziness, a buzzing in her head, and general malaise.
Normally, she gets up at 8 a.m. But on that day, she didn’t come downstairs till the afternoon.
“She didn’t look well, and she said that she was headachy, dizzy, fuzzy. Those are not words that she has ever used to describe how she’s been feeling before,” Ms. Gilardi said.
The girl, her sister, and Ms. Gilardi herself, who said she started experiencing sleep disturbances, rapid heart rates, and migraines, were soon diagnosed with microwave syndrome, a condition known to develop after a person is exposed to electromagnetic fields (EMFs) emitted by wireless technologies.
The doctor’s advice was simple: Stay away from your home.
Microwave syndrome refers to sensitivity and symptom development caused by environmental microwave radiation. This type of radiation is used to heat food in microwave ovens.
People are primarily exposed to microwave radiation through wireless devices and antennas. Cell phone towers, Wi-Fi modems, phones, tablets, smart wearables, and smart home appliances continuously emit these waves 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.
Symptoms of microwave radiation exposure include insomnia, headaches, fatigue, stress, pain, and even skin rashes. Individuals with chronic diseases may experience a worsening of preexisting symptoms as part of microwave syndrome.
https://www.zerohedge.com/medical/unsettling-rise-microwave-syndrome Making something useful out of “Microwave Syndrome”, is the job of “Neuro-Strike”, an “area exclusion” weapon to make people leave a place or be miserable and confused if they stay in it. Chinese technology here, but every big country is bound to have versions of this Stupid-Headache-Ray-Gun, right?
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/6444894f2a886e74091c9e1b/t/6490791efa95ba0a3008ef1b/1687189791347/Enumerating%2C+Targeting+and+Collapsing+the+Chinese+Communist+Party%E2%80%99s+NeuroStrike+Program.pdfAround Thanksgiving of 1979, while I was visiting my grandfather’s cattle ranch from college, our neighbor, a retired USAF Colonel, was driving me to church. The Colonel told me, as he drove, that there were alien bodies in cold storage in a mountain in Colorado. It seemed pretty normal, the way he said it.
U.S. recovered non-human ‘biologics’ from UFO crash sites, former intel official says
Three military veterans testified in Congress’ highly anticipated hearing on UFOs Wednesday, including a former Air Force intelligence officer who claimed the U.S. government has operated a secret “multi-decade” reverse engineering program of recovered vessels. He also said the U.S. has recovered non-human “biologics” from alleged crash sites…
..Retired Maj. David Grusch, who went from being part of the Pentagon’s Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena Task Force to becoming a whistleblower, told the House Oversight Committee’s national security subcommittee that he had been denied access to some government UFO programs but that he knows the “exact locations” of UAPs (“unidentified anomalous phenomena”) in U.S. possession. (Well, they are identified and not anomalous, and not flying at this point.) … ..Grusch also alleged that the U.S. has retrieved “non-human” biological matter from the pilots of the crafts, adding, “That was the assessment of people with direct knowledge on the [UAP] program I talked to, that are currently still on the program.”
While he refrained from sharing any further information in the public hearing, Grusch offered to disclose details behind closed doors.
https://www.npr.org/2023/07/27/1190390376/ufo-hearing-non-human-biologics-uaps Caitlin Johnstone suspects this might be a pitch for more military spending, a novel “threat”. Is “Whistleblowers” the right term?
When asked by congressman Glenn Grothman “do you believe UAPs pose a threat to our national security?”, former Navy commander David Fravor answered with an unequivocal yes. A few minutes later Fravor described these vehicles as being able to “come down from space, hang out for three hours and go back up.”
When asked by congressman Andy Ogles whether UFOs could be “collecting reconnaissance information” on the US military, all three witnesses — Grusch, Fravor, and former Navy pilot Ryan Graves — answered in the affirmative. Asked by Ogles if UFOs could be “probing our capabilities,” all three again said yes. Asked if UFOs could be “testing for vulnerabilities” in US military capabilities, all three again said yes. Asked if UFOs pose an existential threat to the national security of the United States, all three said they potentially do. Asked if there was any indication that UFOs are interested in US nuclear technology, all three said yes.
Ogles concluded his questioning by saying, “There clearly is a threat to the national security of the United States of America. As members of Congress, we have a responsibility to maintain oversight and be aware of these activities so that, if appropriate, we take action.”
https://www.caitlinjohnst. one/p/funny-how-the-ufo-narrative-coincidesIt’s not a convincing video, but the guy has a good story to go with it. (I forgot who posted this at TAE, but Thanks.)
He’s EXPOSING the secret alien interrogation program / Redacted w Clayton Morris
I always liked this song, Praying To The Aliens. Maybe the Colonel had heard it on the radio. Same year. 1979.
I deactivated that Caitlin Johnstone link with a space to get this stuff to upload.
@DBS-Aliens : “Don’t take any trips with Reptilians”, is what I hear.
Some more sensible voices – thanks John Day and Pheonix Voice. I really will drop it now as there are some commentators on this site that just don’t seem to see the bigger picture (i.e. a complete waste of time giving a calm account of the geology and earth science underpinning planetary change and why the last 200 years is an anomaly – best to just shut up and get on with my day job which might actually contribute something useful to society). There seems to be conflagration of skeptical voices that seems impossible to convince to take a wider view and resort to ad hominem attacks which is ramping up on both sides and is unhealthy. Even if the impacts are only 10% of what is ‘predicted’ by the ‘models’ it’s still going to be pretty shit.
We certainly don’t know the trajectory but geological history is pretty clear.
I’m not sure where the message that increases in CO2 will kill everything on the planet came from – whether or not the planet will cease to be hospitable to homo sap’s is up for debate and certainly the survival of our current civilizational arrangements. CO2 is just one of many issues we’ve created for ourselves. I’m very sure that many forms of other life will prevail.
Short-term the economy-energy nexus will likely take homo saps down a peg or two. How the environment fears after that is anyone’s guess. My guess, mainly from an ecological perspective, is that it’s not going to be great with respect to how our species might be impacted and how we might respond and treat the habitable parts of the planet. It certainly seems things are ramping up in a negative way for many people as opposed to isolated pockets of people.
Although a scientist myself I certainly don’t ascribe to all “the science” as prescribed by the powers-that-be because they don’t seem to understand the basics of the scientific method (neither do a lot of my peers specifically if they are commercial science shills).
I’d like to think I do have a pretty good grasp on a wide range of science now that I’m working in agriculture and have taken a broader view of how global challenges are going to impact food production – hence my concerns that homo saps could be in deep do-do very soon. Irrespective of what happens in the environment, the economy crashing (due to collapsing energy security) will massively impact supply chains, which will seriously impact farmers with ‘consumers’ in quick succession. Not good for ‘conventional’ ag. nor society in general. We’ll be following organic and regenerative pathways whether ‘business’ likes it or not and localization will be the call of the day.As for the Covid ‘follow the science’ BS:
There are pretty good reasons for why mRNA vaccines never made it to stage 3 clinical trials despite being investigated for nearly 20 years as a possibility. The reasons being that they come with serious side effects. Without emergency use authorization these ‘products’ would never have been approved. Governments mandating based on the shoddy science and complete lack of transparency and complete lack of informed consent is criminal IMO. Unfortunately to continue to function and support my family I had to take the poison otherwise by-by livelihood and hello immediate poverty (and inability to prepare for the economic storm ahead). Thank goodness boosters were not mandated in my country.Definitely signing out now as measured voices and emerging theory on the trajectory of the climate story don’t seem to be welcome at TAE. I’ll go back to Observing and shut-the-f#$k-up. Thanks jb-hb and aspnaz for destroying (for me anyway) what in many ways is a great platform for hearing about real news, real issues and real events.
The delicate balancing act seems to have, as its fulcrum, the extremely difficult to measure “thing” called necessity. No one argues that “necessary” violence is justifiable. The argument is over the definition of necessity.
Not having access to your rap sheet, personal memory or conscience I’m just guessing that you have so far never found it necessary to shoot anyone to death. Just guessing, of course. For all I know you’re a serial killer. But presuming that you’re innocent of homicide then I’ve got to conclude that despite the fact that you live on the same planet that we do (replete with bloody handed monsters of every description) you have STILL not yet found it “necessary to kill anybody.
Well, good for you. Same here. And the same for everyone else who hasn’t taken it upon themselves to take up arms against a sea of monsters and start shooting all those bastards who so desperately deserve it.
We’re all just trying to survive without turning our playground into an ashtray.
But, on the other hand, I’m perfectly willing to do that if and when it becomes NECESSARY. For that decision I intend to seek advice from higher up the chain of command.
The chicken swingers want you dead. They got the money to do it. They got the media to tell you snow is black. You fuckers look everywhere, except where it matters. They just tried to murder you, what will it take for you to wake the fuck up?
Relentless bullshit and made-up numbers from jb-hb!!!! -as per the response on the last thread.
But we all know jb-hb is not the least bit interested in actual data or proper analysis, which is why he avoids like the plague the massive surge in atmospheric CO2 from 280 ppm preindustrial to 420+ ppm current that has occurred since humans adopted mass scale use of fossil fuels. A 50% increase and counting. 420/280 = 1.5 = a 50% increase, jb-hb. Well, it does by normal mathematics. Who knows what it is by jb-hb’s ‘new maths’.
No response at all from jb-hb on this graph, of course. Never will be, because jb-hb, like all the scince deniers, has no asnwers.
https://keelingcurve.ucsd.edu/wp-content/plugins/sio-bluemoon/graphs/co2_800k.png
Let’s examine hb-jb’s latest offering of misquoting, bullshit and deliberate manipulation that he made up for today’s posting of nonsense. Just for amusement because one cannot take anything he writes seriously.:
Afewknowthetruth said yesterday:
Jul. 25, 2023 422.04 ppm
Jul. 25, 2022 418.67 ppm
1 Year Change 3.37 ppm (0.80%)I love that in the space of 12 hours, CO2 1 year change went down from over 3%, progressively decreasing through various percentages until it hit 0.8%
No, jb-hb, the annual change did not go down from over 3% (your made-up number) in a matter of 12 hours. There never was a 3%. You just made up that number (as pointed out yesterday)
That would indicate that the rate of change of CO2 change must be decreasing quite rapidly if it goes from 3.7+% to only 0.8% in the space of 12 hours – we know rapid change is super significant
NO, jb-hb, there never was any 3.7+%. You made up that number, as detailed yesterday.so it’s like you are trying to slowly creep towards accuracy while not having to admit any mathematical errors
I really don’t know what you mean, since it is you who is ALWAYS inaccurate.
but STILL
Jul. 25, 2023 422.04 ppm [0.04%]
Jul. 25, 2022 418.67 ppm [0.04%]0.04% – 0.04% = 0% change
I’m glad jb-hb is not my banker or accountant, because if he were, he’d be rounding down the $422.04 in my account to $400.00 and pocketing the difference. And rounding up the $418.67 in his own account to $420.00 and declaring both accounts to contain the same amount!!!
This time, I’m using this thing from science (you know Science, right?) called SIGNIFICANT DIGITS. I convert 422.04 ppm to % and get 0.042204%. Then I realize the farther to the right the #, the less fine our precision in scientific measurement. The less scientifically RELAIBLE. We stand an increasing chance of being way off once we are getting into thousandths of A percent or tens of thousandths OF a percent. So we stick with significant digits to hundredths OF a percent and lop off the rest. FOR SCIENCE. We like science and not witch-doctoring, after all.
As previously noted, only an idiot would convert whole number ppm measurements to %s. No one in the scientific community expresses ppm atmospheric concentrations as %. But then jb-jb is not a scientist. Clown probably be the best descriptor.
If you combine your new knowledge of the scientific term significant digits with an online calculator to help you convert ppm to %, I think this will really help you.
I have an\ top Honours Degree in Chemistry and have spent five decades on reporting and analysis of chemical data, so doubt you will ever be able to help me with anything.
Do you understand that I have been continually showing my work, like any 3rd grader could do, but you never do show your math – do you realize how that looks, how the more you argue, the more you project confidence, the more you project contempt for people who disagree with you, the WORSE you look?
Actually, you have not shown us you work at all, jb-hb. You have not addressed any of the fundamental matters at all i.e. the surge in atmospheric CO2 from 280 ppm to 420+ ppm and have simply demonstrated the level of deceit you are prepared to engage in by rounding down numbers and rounding up numbers to call them the same (422 is not the same as 418) , and in the case if the ‘3.74% annual change’ simply invented a number.
I don’t know why I should believe you when your entire argument rests on the far righthand numbers – the LEAST significant digits – of figures created BY Climate Scientists
Less than a week ago, you were crowing about “highest temperatures ever” about “scientists” purposely measuring hot ground instead of air temperatures. But you never retracted nor apologized. And you NEVER EVER do. For verified lies.
That is just a blatant lie, jb-hb. I have been highlighting the record ocean temperatures and loss of ice. Been doing that for years. Land surface temperatures bounce around all over the place. But are, of course rising. Especially in the Arctic region, where it matters most.
Despite various scandals involving Climate “Scientists” measuring jet engine exhaust temperatures, manipulating models, and outright lying, you express NO concern for accuracy in this “scientific” realm, never report on THAT, never apologize for parroting lies, never retract anything. So you are not interested in the science of climate per se.
There have been no scandal involving climate scienetist. ure, there was fake narrative doing the rounds 20 years ago concerning the East Anglia dat. But it was fossil fuel company sponsored the climate change deniers who ended up with egg on their faces. As for jet engine temperatures, again that is just jb-hb made-up nonsense. Give us the reference and details and internet links if you believe it’s true.
Why should we even believe your ppm figures? At the very least, as scientific people ourselves, we should abide by the scientific principle of significant digits, out of an abundance of caution with someone who is known, for years, to act in bad faith. To keep your figures semi-honest at least
so 0.04% CO2 – 0.04% Co2 = 0% CO2 change. That’s our new baseline, AFKTT – are you happy with where you brought things? Due to the distrust you have engendered? This is what must be done to keep you honest. Wake us up if your CO2 changes enter even ONE significant digit – ie if it goes up ONE HUNDREDTH OF ONE PERCENT.
As noted previously, the increase from 280 ppm to 420 ppm over 200 years is not ‘0% change’. It is a 50% change! And it doesn’t stop there. Next May atmospheric CO2 will be at least 425 ppm because industrial humans will have added another 30 billion tonnes of CO2 to the biosphere, and the oceans will be even hotter than they currently are, with dire consequences for life on Earth.
Alex Christoforou does regular YouTube updates on politics and the war in Ukraine etc. He usually includes a ‘Clown World’ segment which highlights the preposterous stances of western politicians and NATO leaders etc..
We have had numerous ‘Clown World’ postings from you, jb-jb over the past couple of years, but the latest have been the best, as you tell us that 420 and 418 are the same thing, that 420/280×100 is not 150% (by omission) and that the Earth is not overheating at the fastest rate in geological history as a consequence of surging atmospheric CO2.
When I clicked here to comment some weird-ass big pop-up ad took over the screen.
ACK! Did it again!
I’m gonna go cook okra now.
Peace, Earthlings.
Climate scammers caught out with too big a lie … https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=249354
From Chris Power at the Guardian
I’ve changed the he to she for trans Ahab Cookies Nuland
“The Ahab that wins out, then, is the Ahab of the night described in The Candles, when she waves a burning harpoon (Ukraine) above the heads of her crew.
As Charles Olson describes, it is “a night of storm. The setting is Lear-like.”
But unlike Lear, Ahab does not “discover her love for her fellow wretches.
On the contrary, this night Ahab uncovers her whole hate.”
The Ahab that wins out is the Ahab of The Forge, when she baptises her newly hammered harpoon (Ukraine) not “in the name of the father, but in the name of the devil”.
The Ahab that wins out is part Macbeth, part Faust, and part Milton’s Satan.
In love with her hatred, she is the most dangerous kind of leader.
The kind who, when she falls, takes the whole ship down with her.”
I wasn’t going to bother with today’s CO2.earth update. But since jb-hb is so adamant that the CO2 numbers do not go up year on year, I have decided to.
Todays reported numbers show another very bad year-to-year pairing. (No surprise at all).
Jul. 26, 2023 422.66 ppm
Jul. 26, 2022 418.66 ppm
1 Year Change 4.00 ppmBefore jb-hb gets a chance to start declaring that there is ‘no increase’ because ‘422.66 = 0.004% and 418.66 = 0.004% and 0.004 minus 0.004 = 0’, let me point out that when Keeling commenced measurements in the late 1950s the recorded annual differences of around 0.7 ppm per annum. A year ago atmospheric CO2 was 418.66 ppm; one year later it was 422.66 ppm.
That said, I’m sure jb-hb can come up with some means to dismember and distort the observed data and ‘prove’ his completely fake narrative, that ‘atmospheric CO2 is not increasing and that the Earth’s temperature does no respond to changes in atmospheric CO2’.
As I pointed out yesterday, the portion of emissions absorbed by the oceans on a daily basis depends on factors such as wind speeds, storms etc. (Also, Observer pointed out that the warmer oceans become and the more saturated they become, the lower their capacity to absorb atmospheric CO2.)
Whilst high (3ppm to 5 ppm) annual difference values are to be expected because nature generally does not act in straight, invariable lines but fluctuates along trend lines, the trend in difference values is relentlessly upward as the years pass -which is no surprise when industrial humans are consuming increasing quantities of fossil fuels with lower EROEI and the permafrosts are melting, releasing CO2 and CH4.
So, todays data informs us that the current rate of change compared to the 1950s is 4 divided by 0.8 -= five times the rate recorded by Keeling in the 1950s.
We wait in eager anticipation of jb-hb getting to work on today’s data, converting everything to percentages, rounding up and down as suits his narratives, and then declaring that ‘nothing is happening’.
Aspnaz posted a link to MArket-Ticker showing antarctic sea ice extent with daily deviation from long term mean. It is down quite a lot this year. Seems like that volcanic activity they have down their may be venting more energy up from the bowels of our fair planet, huh?
At 20:00 Thursday (last) night the local meteorology measuring station reported a wind speed of 10 kph, by 20:10 the reported value was 45 kph, by 20:30 it was 25 kph and by 20:40 it was 15 kph. The proceeding and following hours were at or below 10 kph.
Obviously God farted, hence the huge blip. Actually, the meteorology station had forcast a typhoon to be passing through Hong Kong Thursday (last) night, they had issued an alert Wednesday night, but the wind stayed under 10 kph for most of yesterday, apart from God’s fart. The typhoon did not appear. Today (Friday) the typhoon also did not appear, wind under 10 kph.
The historical record will show that the maximum wind speed yesterday was 45 kph. As I said before, I do not know why our meteological people are doing this shite, but they are fiddling the numbers. Given that all weather people are fiddling the numbers these days, my guess is that it is a route to promotion.
Observer wrote
I really will drop it now as there are some commentators on this site that just don’t seem to see the bigger picture (i.e. a complete waste of time giving a calm account of the geology and earth science underpinning planetary change and why the last 200 years is an anomaly – best to just shut up and get on with my day job which might actually contribute something useful to society). There seems to be conflagration of skeptical voices that seems impossible to convince to take a wider view and resort to ad hominem attacks which is ramping up on both sides and is unhealthy. Even if the impacts are only 10% of what is ‘predicted’ by the ‘models’ it’s still going to be pretty shit.
Although a scientist myself I certainly don’t ascribe to all “the science” as prescribed by the powers-that-be because they don’t seem to understand the basics of the scientific method (neither do a lot of my peers specifically if they are commercial science shills).
I’d like to think I do have a pretty good grasp on a wide range of science now that I’m working in agriculture and have taken a broader view of how global challenges are going to impact food production – hence my concerns that homo saps could be in deep do-do very soon. Irrespective of what happens in the environment, the economy crashing (due to collapsing energy security) will massively impact supply chains, which will seriously impact farmers with ‘consumers’ in quick succession. Not good for ‘conventional’ ag. nor society in general. We’ll be following organic and regenerative pathways whether ‘business’ likes it or not and localization will be the call of the day.
As for the Covid ‘follow the science’ BS:
There are pretty good reasons for why mRNA vaccines never made it to stage 3 clinical trials despite being investigated for nearly 20 years as a possibility. The reasons being that they come with serious side effects. Without emergency use authorization these ‘products’ would never have been approved. Governments mandating based on the shoddy science and complete lack of transparency and complete lack of informed consent is criminal IMO. Unfortunately to continue to function and support my family I had to take the poison otherwise by-by livelihood and hello immediate poverty (and inability to prepare for the economic storm ahead). Thank goodness boosters were not mandated in my country.Definitely signing out now as measured voices and emerging theory on the trajectory of the climate story don’t seem to be welcome at TAE. I’ll go back to Observing and shut-the-f#$k-up. Thanks jb-hb and aspnaz for destroying (for me anyway) what in many ways is a great platform for hearing about real news, real issues and real events.
I think the last sentence sums it up.
Thanks jb-hb and aspnaz for destroying (for me anyway) what in many ways is a great platform for hearing about real news, real issues and real events
Me too.
That said, I do have free time at the moment, and I feel it is a worthwhile to spend some of that time challenging demolishing the schoolboyish nonsense that these two present, ad infinitum, and to present the facts and the actual science. Bullshit unchallenged might just be believed.
The other aspect you have highlighted is, of course, the more the garbage jb-hb and aspnaz post, the further TAE goes drain.
I note that other commenters have had run-ins with these persistent trolls and have got sick of them and have left.
There was a time when I used to recommend TAE to others. But that is no longer the case. RIM really should take note how much a pair of persistent liars and clowns jb-hb and aspnaz have wrecked the website. RIM’s persisted posting of items refuting well established physics and chemistry really don’t help the cause of promoting truth or promoting TAE.
None so blind as those who will not see.
In the short term, it has now been reduced to a game, in which jb-hb posts twisted garbage and fails to addfress any of the issues while I pull his idiotic narratives to pieces.
But even that game gets tiresome; as above, I wasn’t going to post on TAE today. It was only jb-hb’s latest ad hominem attack that spurred me to do so. Once the weather improves (midwinter at the moment), I too will become an occasional observer again. And it will be TAE’s loss, and society’s loss, not mine.
I have watched many websites go under over the past decade or so, as operators and the trolls they encouraged failed to see the light.
More weather fun. At 20:00 hours last night (a coincidence?) the temperature dropped from 30C to 26C in the space of 10 minutes. Yes, 10 minutes! Before that time it had been at 30+C and after the drop it slowly rose back from 26C to 28C over 12 hours.
The weather can change quickly here but it is always accompanied by a change in wind direction. The wind did not change direction, in fact, even when at 45 kph it was giving random direction readings as it tends to do when the speed is very low. Normally, when the speed is high, the direction is well defined, as it would be if there had been a typhoon.
As a windsurfer I watch the weather every day, the forecasters and recorders are putting up some weird shit at the moment. Not that the temperatures or typhoons are unusual at this time of year, just that the details are very strange.
Maybe I am noticing it more now that we are being bombarded with climate lies and are being encouraged to talk about the weather and how we are all going to die.
* The Daily Covid
– Vaxxed people get sick more often
– Cardiac emergencies are mysterious
– Heat and altitude thicken your blood
– Catastrophic Contagion is coming for you
– Dick Durbin’s third bout of Covid: Blather, Wince, Repeat* Shower Thoughts:
– If men and women are more or less the same why do we never hear men complain about a trans-man with full female genitalia wanting to shower with them?
– Women don’t think strategically and can’t handle world of warships
– Victoria Nuland is like Ahab; They are both in a relationship with a whale and a peg is involved
– Fill in the blank with as many answers as apply: _________ trials are untrustworthy; Stop when you get to ten* Interesting exercise: Go to ChatGPT and enter: “Describe the person who wrote the following text: ” and then paste in the text of your comment
* Types of Change
Relative change: If something goes from 1% to 2% it went up 100%
Absolute change: If something goes from 1% to 2% it went up 1%
Chump change: Conflating relative and absolute change* Pro-Tip: When scrolling through TAE use the up and down arrow keys and not the scroll bar
* Time saving synopsis of the CO2 debate:
– CO2 is up, making things hotter; CO2 is bad
– Up or not CO2 doesn’t make things hotter; CO2 is good
– You’re an idiot
– No, you’re an idiot* I shot an arrow into the air,
It fell to earth, I knew not where;
For, so swiftly it flew, the sight
Could not follow it in its flight.The Russians followed how it flew
And where it came from they soon knew
A lancet came to say hello
And blew to bits my little bowWORLD DEBT REACHES $92T
Who are the lenders that had this much money to lend?
What will happen to those lenders if they don’t get paid?@ RIM
did you see this?
https://greekcitytimes.com/2023/07/28/military-aircraft-to-be-relocated-after-wildfires-threaten-air-force-base-in-nea-anchialos-area/
A wildfire whipped on by strong winds triggered a series of massive explosions overnight at an air force ammunition depot in central Greece, and F-16 fighter jets were being moved from a nearby air base as a precaution while firefighters worked to tame multiple blazes in the country.
The Greek air force said on Thursday the military base was not under an immediate threat. The depot was evacuated before the explosions, and no injuries were reported, although continued blasts prevented firefighting teams from approaching the site.What will happen to those lenders if they don’t get paid?”
I’m pretty sure they will then have to print more debt to cover the old debt, and enough more debt than that to provide profits and enough more than THAT to pay off all the bribes, blackmail and hush-money that it takes to keep their jobs as money lenders.
D Benton Smith
$92T
Who are the lenders that have that on their books?
I think it’s a lie. It’s funny bookkeeping.AFKTT said
Me too.
Hang on. Just last week you were complaining about RIM posting too many climate truths and how that was ruining the site. Now you are blaming jb-hb and myself? That’s okay, you are just another trial I have to endure, another service to society. Looks like Observer, the good obedient puppy, is the only commenter that is not in your huge black book.
$92T
Who are the lenders that have that on their books?
I think it’s a lie. It’s funny bookkeeping.”Loans outstanding on legitimate account books is for sure one way of looking at it, and from that perspective I totally agree that it’s both a lie pulled out of their butts AND book cooking so weird it would make a meth lab look like grandma’s kitchen. I was taking a much broader view, in the sense that money itself is just an imaginary stack of counterfeit debt that bankers print into existence out of nowhere and which suckers like us pay back in true value (plus interest). And that’s not even taking into consideration shadow banking and “black budget” defense spending.
The bullshit around world debt is so deep it would take a deep sea ROV to get to the bottom of the bullshit, not to even mention the bottom of the debt.
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